[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Velvet

I don’t understand this issue. If you reserve something at 10:00 am and you show up at 8:00 am or even 9:50 am you EXPECT to get into a 10:00 reservation? Because the room is empty? Do you also expect to sleep there all night because the room is empty and you along with everyone else - all 150,000 of us, paid the amenity fees? Just asking for a friend…

If I show up at a restaurant early for my reservation and the table is empty then yes, I expect to be seated.

If I show up before check-in time at a hotel and my room is ready then yes, I expect to be allowed in.

If I show up early anywhere that I have asked for some resources to be reserved for my use and they are ready then yes, I expect to be able to make use of those resources early.

The rec centers are different, though. Those resources are available for anyone's use UNLESS they have been reserved. A pickleball court, a bocce lane, a set of corn hole boards, a pool table, or a card table - if they aren't being used and are not reserved for use then yes, I expect to be able to use them.

If a rec center resource is cleared of users 30 minutes before a reservation then fine, that makes sense. However, if it is my reservation and the resource is being kept clear for my use then yes, I expect to be able to make user of that resource early.

- There are only one or two names on the reservation so only those one or two people should be able to permit others into the room early. "Jack said it is okay," is not okay.
- We don't know what other issues there may have been with that room/event/center/team that preceded this action - those details may matter

[Velvet]

The restaurant wants to get you out early in case they get another customer, the hotel will charge you extra if you sign in too early. The rec center, well, if anyone can use rooms any time when they are not reserved, then they should let you. I am wondering who is responsible for cleaning the room by the time the reservers arrive? And what happens if the non reservers don’t want to leave (they are in the middle of a game) when the reservers arrive?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

If I show up at a restaurant early for my reservation and the table is empty then yes, I expect to be seated.

If I show up before check-in time at a hotel and my room is ready then yes, I expect to be allowed in.

If I show up early anywhere that I have asked for some resources to be reserved for my use and they are ready then yes, I expect to be able to make use of those resources early.

The rec centers are different, though. Those resources are available for anyone's use UNLESS they have been reserved. A pickleball court, a bocce lane, a set of corn hole boards, a pool table, or a card table - if they aren't being used and are not reserved for use then yes, I expect to be able to use them.

If a rec center resource is cleared of users 30 minutes before a reservation then fine, that makes sense. However, if it is my reservation and the resource is being kept clear for my use then yes, I expect to be able to make user of that resource early.

- There are only one or two names on the reservation so only those one or two people should be able to permit others into the room early. "Jack said it is okay," is not okay.
- We don't know what other issues there may have been with that room/event/center/team that preceded this action - those details may matter

You can expect whatever floats your boat, however the proprietor is under no obligation to meet your expectations.

You reserved a room at 9, that means you can use the room at 9. It doesn't mean you can use it at 8:30.

You reserved a table for 6pm at the restaurant, that means your server, who is probably serving other tables, is not obligated to add you to her roster at 5:30 just because you showed up early and the table is empty.

You reserved a hotel room and check-in is at 3, then you can check in at 3. It doesn't mean that if your flight comes in at 1 and you show up to the hotel at 2 you can check in early.

The proprietors MAY slip you in early - but they're under no obligation to do so, and "expecting" otherwise is considering yourself entitled to things you aren't entitled to.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Velvet

The restaurant wants to get you out early in case they get another customer, the hotel will charge you extra if you sign in too early. The rec center, well, if anyone can use rooms any time when they are not reserved, then they should let you. I am wondering who is responsible for cleaning the room by the time the reservationists arrive?

It's also chair and table setup. If another group used the card room earlier in the day and THEIR setup was different from yours, then it requires the employees to reconfigure. If the card room is a pass-through from the kitchen to another rec room that requires a setup during the "empty" time, then you showing up early would mean you're in their way.

If you want early setup, you ASK for it. In advance. You make arrangements, in advance. You reserve the room early, in advance. If they say no, then that's your answer. The rec center isn't obligated to let you in a minute earlier or later than the time you reserved, or a minute outside the time slots they offer. They MAY let you in early or stay late, but they're under no obligation to do so. In addition, the permit form everyone fills out is clear: cleanup must be by "x" time, and you get charged if you go over that time.

If you have a 9-11:30 reservation, then tell your group the actual meeting starts at 9:30, and practice is at 9AM sharp.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

You can expect whatever floats your boat, however the proprietor is under no obligation to meet your expectations.

You reserved a room at 9, that means you can use the room at 9. It doesn't mean you can use it at 8:30.

You reserved a table for 6pm at the restaurant, that means your server, who is probably serving other tables, is not obligated to add you to her roster at 5:30 just because you showed up early and the table is empty.

You reserved a hotel room and check-in is at 3, then you can check in at 3. It doesn't mean that if your flight comes in at 1 and you show up to the hotel at 2 you can check in early.

The proprietors MAY slip you in early - but they're under no obligation to do so, and "expecting" otherwise is considering yourself entitled to things you aren't entitled to.

"Expecting" to be accommodated when the resource is available is expecting good customer service. "Expecting to" and "entitled to" are vastly different attitudes.

Everyone ought check the guidelines for the rooms that are published by the District. From the Resident Lifestyle Group Guidelines:

½ hour for the group contact and committees to prepare ½ hour in between card rooms for setups and participants enter or exit

could easily be interpreted as the room being open for participants to enter 1/2 hour prior to the start time.

[Velvet]

OBB expressed precisely what I was trying to say (I’m not sure why she isn’t practicing law - or is she?)

[Velvet]

Is the half hour before and after included in the time reservation or on top of it? What is the usual practice?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Velvet

OBB expressed precisely what I was trying to say (I’m not sure why she isn’t practicing law - or is she?)

I just read a lot. When I lived in the condos in Connecticut I read every line of the entire condo association HOA agreement. And then, a year later, I read the entire Connecticut General Statutes at the public library, because I was trying to help a friend with an absentee divorce and abandonment declaration of her scofflaw ex-husband so that their son could be legally adopted by her soon-to-be new husband.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Velvet

Is the half hour before and after included in the time reservation or on top of it? What is the usual practice?

This is the exact wording from the permit I had, for an event at one of the larger rec centers. Note: it was for a larger rec room and was not a local card game, it was a meeting with guest speakers who lived outside the Villages.

"Please abide by the start time and stop times on the facility contract. Additional time used will be deducted from the security deposit as noted on the walk-through form received from the recreation center."

and

On my permit the start date/time shows 8:30AM, and end date/time shows 12:00PM

with...the confirmation and instructions from the rec center instructing me:

"The start time on the booking 8:30 AM is when you, caterers, and entertainment may enter the room. The end time of 12 PM is when everyone has exited the room."

Now, I was very fortunate that the employee who handled setup and breakdown was incredibly kind and sympathetic to the fact that this was a first for me, and a pretty big deal, and I was doing all of this by myself with no help. So he allowed me to come in at 8 to bring the food and supplies and bag of coffee for him to percolate, so that when 8:30 rolled around and the speakers started coming in, the room itself was all ready to roll.
But I had NO expectation of that. I think that might be part of why he was so awesome about it. I didn't walk in there expecting special treatment.

[Maker]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

You can expect whatever floats your boat, however the proprietor is under no obligation to meet your expectations.

You reserved a room at 9, that means you can use the room at 9. It doesn't mean you can use it at 8:30.

You reserved a table for 6pm at the restaurant, that means your server, who is probably serving other tables, is not obligated to add you to her roster at 5:30 just because you showed up early and the table is empty.

You reserved a hotel room and check-in is at 3, then you can check in at 3. It doesn't mean that if your flight comes in at 1 and you show up to the hotel at 2 you can check in early.

The proprietors MAY slip you in early - but they're under no obligation to do so, and "expecting" otherwise is considering yourself entitled to things you aren't entitled to.

If the reservation is at 9, and the room is empty at 8:30, then there is no reason it cannot be used at 8:30. We are talking about 99% of the usages - no setup or special needs are happening. Tables are already there, and nothing needs to be changed.

The rec room is not a restaurant or hotel. No servers. No kitchen staff. Fully self sufficient.

The "proprietors" means the owners. Since the rec centers are paid for by the residents, and all maintenance is funded by the residents, WE are the owners. We expect to be able to use an EMPTY room whenever buildings are open. Nobody is slipping in anyone. They are available for use anytime, but are allocated to specific groups at specific times. Other than those times, the rooms are available.

If someone is in a room but not part of the reservation activity, then those people would be asked to exit. However - this has never been the case I am talking about. It's about people there ahead of the reservation time, for a totally empty room, needing nothing altered to the setup, and who remain in the room participating in that reservation.

[Maker]

Originally Posted by Velvet

... I am wondering who is responsible for cleaning the room by the time the reservers arrive?

Rooms are cleaned overnight by a cleaning staff.

[Velvet]

Well, no we are not the owners of the rec center, unless we are personally on title. Just like we don’t own city hall even if our taxes pay for it up north. But if it’s customary to allow set up and entrance of participants half hour before reservation time, then I do see your point.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Velvet

Well, no we are not the owners of the rec center, unless we are personally on title. Just like we don’t own city hall even if our taxes pay for it up north. But if it’s customary to allow set up and entrance of participants half hour before reservation time, then I do see your point.

That's why the reservation instructions specify that you, the caterers, and entertainment may come in at the time stated on the reservation permit.

It's in plain English right there on the District Government website:

2.) Start/End Times – Recreation Centers are open 7 days a week, 7:00 a.m. – 10:00 p.m., except for designated holidays
Special events and rentals may be scheduled past 10:00 p.m., as approved by District staff. Applicant, per contract, agrees to abide by start/end times listed on Facility Permit. Any time used before or past permit time will be charged on an hourly room rate for that facility.
a) Applicant pays for time issued on the permit, there are no deductions in fees for time not used.
b) Applicant will pay appropriate rate for any time used in excess of scheduled time on permit.

https://www.districtgov.org/images/F...d-Approved.pdf - page 8 of 21

linked FROM their website: Reservations - The Villages Community Development Districts

You don't have to like it. You don't have to agree with it. But you sign the permit and agree to obey it, when you first reserve the room. If that displeases you enough, you can host the card game at your house.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

That's why the reservation instructions specify that you, the caterers, and entertainment may come in at the time stated on the reservation permit.

It's in plain English right there on the District Government website:


https://www.districtgov.org/images/F...d-Approved.pdf - page 8 of 21

linked FROM their website: Reservations - The Villages Community Development Districts

You don't have to like it. You don't have to agree with it. But you sign the permit and agree to obey it, when you first reserve the room. If that displeases you enough, you can host the card game at your house.

Note the words “rental” and “pay.” A lifestyle group does not rent or pay.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Note the words “rental” and “pay.” A lifestyle group does not rent or pay.

From the lifestyle page permit instructions pages 9 and 10 https://www.districtgov.org/images/R...rdApproved.pdf

XII. Facility Scheduling Guidelines
Open for Business: 7 a.m. (Open pools, setup rooms, scan participants)
Start Times: On the hour or half hour beginning at 7:30 a.m.
Time: 1.5 hours for staff setup medium to large rooms
Between Activities: 1.5 hours for catering setup for catered events
(Setup Time): ½ hour for the group contact and committees to prepare ½ hour in
between card rooms for setups and participants enter or exit
Activity Times*: 3.5 hours Social, Cards and Board Game Activities
1.5 hours Exercise Activities
4 hours Parking Lots
None Pavilions
4 hours Pavilion Activities Moved Indoors
6 hours Special Events
Rental Only Pool Parties (Sundays only)
*Recommend Average Activity Times do not include setup time.
End Times 10 minutes from the end of the hour or half hour through
9:50 pm
10
Close 10:00 p.m. (Rentals may be extended past 10:00 p.m. per
Recreation Department approval)
Regularly scheduled groups are issued a contract (permit) to use the facilities. The permit
includes the scheduled setup, start and end times.

So - there is a scheduled setup, start, and end time for regularly scheduled lifestyle group events (like monthly/weekly card games). The setup time is not for practice games, it's for setup, prior to the activity (the card games). So the activity (the card game) time is recommended to be 3.5 hours long, in total, which would include practice time. And the half hour prior to that 3.5 hour period, would presumably be for setup, if applicable. If there's no setup, then you don't need that half hour.

No one is preventing the OP from using the card room for their lifestyle group event. They're just preventing them from abusing the setup time, and turning it into part of the actual activity time. They COULD request a longer activity time but it's not guaranteed, and the director of the facility can say no.