[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

From the lifestyle page permit instructions pages 9 and 10 https://www.districtgov.org/images/R...rdApproved.pdf


So - there is a scheduled setup, start, and end time for regularly scheduled lifestyle group events (like monthly/weekly card games). The setup time is not for practice games, it's for setup, prior to the activity (the card games). So the activity (the card game) time is recommended to be 3.5 hours long, in total, which would include practice time. And the half hour prior to that 3.5 hour period, would presumably be for setup, if applicable. If there's no setup, then you don't need that half hour.

No one is preventing the OP from using the card room for their lifestyle group event. They're just preventing them from abusing the setup time, and turning it into part of the actual activity time. They COULD request a longer activity time but it's not guaranteed, and the director of the facility can say no.

Now you found the page! The words that are there don’t quite match your paraphrasing or what the OP reports experiencing.

The words say “recommend” not demand.
The words say 1/2 hour for participants to enter or exit,
The OP reports no entry allowed until the clock struck the hour.

And seriously, we’re now going to have the card police patrolling the room to make sure no one shuffles before it is time?!

I’ve said a couple of times now that there may be a problem the team is attempting to solve. If so, great, I hope they are successful. If there is no problem being solved then perhaps a better approach would be to not become the problem.

[Rainger99]

Originally Posted by Maker

People are looking for a resolution to this insane policy. Not for a confrontation that could lead to all sorts of interesting legal events. Someday, someone might do that out of pure frustration, but I would not advocate that now.
Preventing people for using an empty room is just plain stupid. That's not what TV is all about.

Can we use the softball fields if they are not being used?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Now you found the page! The words that are there don’t quite match your paraphrasing or what the OP reports experiencing.

The words say “recommend” not demand.
The words say 1/2 hour for participants to enter or exit,
The OP reports no entry allowed until the clock struck the hour.

And seriously, we’re now going to have the card police patrolling the room to make sure no one shuffles before it is time?!

I’ve said a couple of times now that there may be a problem the team is attempting to solve. If so, great, I hope they are successful. If there is no problem being solved then perhaps a better approach would be to not become the problem.

I had been using my own experience with reserving and renting a room at a rec center, as my guide. When it was pointed out that the OP wasn't talking about that kind of reservation, I checked for other types of permits and found the one you are responding about now.

But you missed the bottom part, I think:

Regularly scheduled groups are issued a contract (permit) to use the facilities. The permit
includes the scheduled setup, start and end times.

That's part of the contract that the OP would have had to sign. There is a SCHEDULED setup, start, and end time. That means he OP has signed and agreed to the contract, giving him the room for the scheduled times. Not for any other time. Only for the scheduled time.

[Velvet]

Originally Posted by Rainger99

Can we use the softball fields if they are not being used?

Not relevant.

And, from what I have experienced, you don’t win too often against OBB

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

I had been using my own experience with reserving and renting a room at a rec center, as my guide. When it was pointed out that the OP wasn't talking about that kind of reservation, I checked for other types of permits and found the one you are responding about now.

But you missed the bottom part, I think:



That's part of the contract that the OP would have had to sign. There is a SCHEDULED setup, start, and end time. That means he OP has signed and agreed to the contract, giving him the room for the scheduled times. Not for any other time. Only for the scheduled time.

I didn’t miss it. The contract (that we haven’t seen) ought to reflect the policies in the guidelines. If it does not then what is the purpose of publishing policies that aren’t followed?

But let’s say the contract does not provide for setup time. In that case the room is unreserved and should be available for use, just as Bocce courts or pool tables are available for use. Either the room is within the setup time for a reservation, the active time of a reservation, or it is not currently reserved.

You’re not proposing there is a kinda-sorta reserved but not really reserved period when the room is unavailable just because, are you? Where do I find *that* in the guidelines?

[biker1]

My wife ran a club for 10 years and had a contract for 3 hours starting at 9:00 for the big room. Her club was the first reservation of the day so the room was empty for 2 hours, IIRC. Her response to your situation was that it depends on the people running the rec center that day. She typically went in about 20 minutes before her time to setup. During the 10 years she ran the club, the people who worked at the rec center were nice to interact with and did some table and chair setup for her.

Originally Posted by Maker

At many of the various card games played here, often newbies will meet with experienced players an hour early to get one-on-one lessons to help them learn a new game to them.
At other room usage, sometimes it takes time to set up for the event so that when the event start time arrives, the event is ready to begin.

Unfortunately, the rec department is starting to prevent that. They are not allowing people into the room early. Even when the room is unoccupied.

This seems to be happening in CDD 12 mainly. Not sure if this is a new rec department official policy, or something being done by rogue managers without approval.

Obviously, a lot of people are not happy.
This policy is NOT being advertised anywhere that anyone has found.
CDD board members are saying they know nothing about this new "policy". Then advised to "call the rec department".
Rooms are sitting EMPTY while people are jammed into the rec center lobby. Many people are forced to stand and wait.
Some rec centers do this, others do not.
When asked why, rec center staff member says the rec department ordered this.
Calling the rec department gets non-answers like "I don't know" or "hmm".

If this is an actual new policy - It needs to stop now. An empty room should always be available to residents. We pay amenity fees that fund the operations of rec centers and there is NO REASON we should be arbitrarily blocked from using that space.

If there is another group in the room ahead of the card group, then this entry denial "might" be justifiable, except there are policies about underused room attendance, allowing others to share the space. But for an EMPTY room, this is moot.

If this is a new policy - WHY is it so secretive? What is going on?

Attempting to contact John Rohan has been met with "he is unavailable" and "leave a message". He has not called back. So he has been made aware of this, and is not responding. Why?

If anyone else has experienced this, please comment with the rec center name, type of room use, and if the room was empty prior to the event.

[Maker]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

That's why the reservation instructions specify that you, the caterers, and entertainment may come in at the time stated on the reservation permit.

It's in plain English right there on the District Government website:


https://www.districtgov.org/images/F...d-Approved.pdf - page 8 of 21

linked FROM their website: Reservations - The Villages Community Development Districts

You don't have to like it. You don't have to agree with it. But you sign the permit and agree to obey it, when you first reserve the room. If that displeases you enough, you can host the card game at your house.

Where does any of that say anything about residents using an empty room when there is no group reservation for that time?
Groups that have a reservation follow the rules of that reservation, but individual people using the room BEFORE, AFTER, or OUTSIDE OF the reservation time are not restricted by any reservation - because there is no reservation active at that time of day.
It's not a matter of liking or agreeing - the rule you quoted does not apply.

If a small group of people meet at a rec center where there happens to be an empty room with no active reservation at that time, they should not be prevented from access to that room. That's one perfectly legitimate use.
If you believe that usage should <not> be allowed, show us the specific rule that prevents that. Not a reservation restriction, but something that says you and I could not agree to meet today at some rec center midway between us, and sit down at a table, in an empty room, with nobody having a reservation, and chat. Or play a game at an empty pickle ball court. I cannot find such a restriction, except to reference others with a reservation at that specific time of day. And in fact, that exact usage is touted as a great feature of the amenities for residents - they are available for use without a reservation.

Consider when a village property sales agent walks potential new buyers into mandatory resident or guest ID-required amenities. Should they be stopped from doing that? Such as entering the rec center rooms, pool areas, pickle ball courts, etc. None of those people have guest passes, and by rules cannot even be there.

[Marathon Man]

Originally Posted by dfortier

-----
Keep in mind that rec center staff are either volunteers or work for minimal pay. Either way they are not doing it for the money. Abusive and argumentative guests really take the fun out of the job. My recommendation is for guests to be gracious and go with the flow. We are fortunate they are willing to put themselves out there to bring order to what might be chaotic situations.

Well said.

[Marathon Man]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

It's also chair and table setup. If another group used the card room earlier in the day and THEIR setup was different from yours, then it requires the employees to reconfigure. If the card room is a pass-through from the kitchen to another rec room that requires a setup during the "empty" time, then you showing up early would mean you're in their way.

If you want early setup, you ASK for it. In advance. You make arrangements, in advance. You reserve the room early, in advance. If they say no, then that's your answer. The rec center isn't obligated to let you in a minute earlier or later than the time you reserved, or a minute outside the time slots they offer. They MAY let you in early or stay late, but they're under no obligation to do so. In addition, the permit form everyone fills out is clear: cleanup must be by "x" time, and you get charged if you go over that time.

If you have a 9-11:30 reservation, then tell your group the actual meeting starts at 9:30, and practice is at 9AM sharp.

Well said.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

I didn’t miss it. The contract (that we haven’t seen) ought to reflect the policies in the guidelines. If it does not then what is the purpose of publishing policies that aren’t followed?

But let’s say the contract does not provide for setup time. In that case the room is unreserved and should be available for use, just as Bocce courts or pool tables are available for use. Either the room is within the setup time for a reservation, the active time of a reservation, or it is not currently reserved.

You’re not proposing there is a kinda-sorta reserved but not really reserved period when the room is unavailable just because, are you? Where do I find *that* in the guidelines?

I'm not proposing anything. I'm stating facts. I'm providing information. I'm quoting the actual documentation.

The fact is, your CONTRACT states that set-up time is scheduled. The information is, you sign the contract agreeing to a scheduled set-up time. The documentation states this clearly, in the only place that matters: the place where you're required to sign.

[Rainger99]

Originally Posted by Velvet

Not relevant.

But can we use them? I don't want to join a league but if they are not being used, can a couple of us go out and just practice - like we did as kids?

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Rainger99

But can we use them? I don't want to join a league but if they are not being used, can a couple of us go out and just practice - like we did as kids?

From the Facility Guidelines document:

III. Facility Use
District owned or operated facilities are available for use, provided that such use is consistent with the design of the facility, safety and weather conditions permitting for outside activities. Additionally, use of District owned or operated facilities may be restricted or prohibited by District officials or emergency management personnel as needed. District owned or operated facilities may only be reserved for use by individuals, groups or organizations in accordance with these guidelines.

That would seem to imply the answer is you can go and just practice if it is not being used. However, it would be best to check with the Recreation Dept. itself, especially to learn if there is any time that the fields are not already reserved.

[biker1]

Yes. If they don’t want you on the fields the gates will be locked. People practicing on the fields is common.

Originally Posted by Rainger99

But can we use them? I don't want to join a league but if they are not being used, can a couple of us go out and just practice - like we did as kids?

[Velvet]

Well, since there seems some ambiguity in the wording, I’m pretty sure there will be an official clarification coming up pretty soon. Just like they did with the signs in District 1:”Golf cart and Bike” lane. And our pool at Mallory has a sign permanently affixed on the GATE with the rules for “30 and over and ID required” which only a blind person could miss. It's keeping the teenagers and dogs out so far.

[Pixelpups]

Just letting you all know that I appreciate this thread. I run a resident volunteer group from 9 - 11 am. Artists often arrive 20 minutes early to set up their spaces at the tables. It’s never been a problem at Riverbend. After reading this, I think I will request an additional half hour preparation time to the current studio session time. If someone came to use the room from 8 - 9 am, there would be 40 people jamming the lobby, waiting for 9 am.

Just a suggestion on newbies interested in practicing the game: the regional recreation centers have tables set up in their lobbies that are never reserved. Arrange a get together time with them there to learn/practice the game. Most new people showing up to a regular event don’t expect to be included immediately; they might be happy to learn without an impending game distracting the instructions.