[Joorn59]

Originally Posted by B767drvr

A discussion on morals: Is it your neighbor's responsibility to keep you safe/healthy?

If so, how far are we willing to infringe on others' rights/freedoms to keep others safe?

Is it okay to destroy people's businesses by forcing their extended closure to "protect" others' health?

Is it okay to forcefully remove people from public transportation for not wearing masks?

In Laredo, Texas... it's a $1,000 fine if you go out in public without a mask. The mask requirement can be a cloth draping... i.e., it is not for the wearer's safety, it is for others' safety. Do you agree with this? If so, why? If not, why not?

Have we considered the effects of our actions on our health care workers? Did they sign up for a worldwide global deadly pandemic threatening not only their job, but their life? How about going to work with little to no PPE and "hoping" they stay safe? Did they sign up for this? How might your actions impact their life? Is it okay to make choices and then expect others to "fix" (health care workers) them?

Wearing masks right now may save the health care SYSTEM. The past six weeks mitigated the virus. It’s not dead, it’s still out there. Wearing a mask will keep the number of new cases suppressed until vaccine.
I for one would rather the hospital be able to resume regular functions.

[Windguy]

Originally Posted by popbaby2

So they should hire more ambassadors.

Did I just hear you volunteer to become an ambassador for minimum wage? It's much easier said than done. Could you learn to do all the things ambassadors and starters do and be ready to go tomorrow? What happens when the threat passes? Who do you let go when the regulars come back?

[georgea]

Thank you Bill 1701 for a bit of wisdom here. We have no idea if this virus is worse than the normal flu that goes thru the population and kills about 60,000 anually. The Government has put out edicts based on models that so far have proven to be grossly overexaggerated. Too many politicians are using this as some sort of power play for themselves, the governor of Michigan for example. I applaud those in Michigan fighting for their rights against the nonsensical edict of their Governor.

[CastleSteve]

I believe that the government should require everyone that works in stores that are considered to be Essential should be wearing a facial mask and also require any customer that enters the essentials store also be wearing a mask as long as they are in the store. That way the employees protect the customer's and the customer's protect the employees as long as this 30 day period lasts unless they increase the time.

[Marykschulz]

People who don’t want to maintain social distancing are like the folks who refuse to leave their homes in mandatory hurricane evacuation orders. When the hurricane gets to them, many call rescuers to risk their lives to come help them. When people who don’t like the stay at home orders get sick, they will expect health workers to risk their own lives to treat them. Maybe if they would agree to just die at home in the hurricanes or when they get Covid, the rest of us would not think of them as selfish? Covid is not just the flu or a car accident, or cancer. It is highly contagious and deadly for many. Listen to the scientists.

[toeser]

Originally Posted by Aces4

One more question to be added regarding morality: what is more important... one’s fellow man or the almighty dollar?

It is a simple fact of life that 99% of the population needs money to survive. To make it either / or is just too simplistic.

[JoelJohnson]

How do we know how many die from heart attacks each year? Data. How do we know how many people die from cars accidents each year? Data. How do we know how many died from the flu last year (and all the years before)? Data.

My point is that without data all you are doing is guessing. At the last time I checked, around 1% (or less) of Americans have been tested, How many have been re-tested? How many people died from this and it didn't get recorded as a Corvid-18 death? How many have gotten it and didn't know it and recovered?
As the doctors and scientist say, we need data.

Yes people are suffering (including my own kids), but I rather see them alive (and hungry) then have to bury them.
This is a great country with lots of resources, no one should starve. We have a federally government for just such situations. Let's get them to do their job!

[bumpygreens]

Confining the sick, and limiting their contact with others is called quarantine. Doing the same to a healthy person is imprisonment. Making excuses to blur the distinction is demagoguery.

[ts12755]

If wearing a mask untill we get to phase II im for it. It will give us freedom and let businesses open. If you are sick and don't know it wearing a mask will keep you from getting others sick

[MandoMan]

Originally Posted by B767drvr

A discussion on morals: Is it your neighbor's responsibility to keep you safe/healthy?

If so, how far are we willing to infringe on others' rights/freedoms to keep others safe?

Is it okay to destroy people's businesses by forcing their extended closure to "protect" others' health?

Is it okay to forcefully remove people from public transportation for not wearing masks

In Laredo, Texas... it's a $1,000 fine if you go out in public without a mask. The mask requirement can be a cloth draping... i.e., it is not for the wearer's safety, it is for others' safety. Do you agree with this? If so, why? If not, why not?

Have we considered the effects of our actions on our health care workers? Did they sign up for a worldwide global deadly pandemic threatening not only their job, but their life? How about going to work with little to no PPE and "hoping" they stay safe? Did they sign up for this? How might your actions impact their life? Is it okay to make choices and then expect others to "fix" (health care workers) them?

Answer from a Facebook letter from a Nurse in Michigan:

“I am posting, for once, about something other than my dog.

I have seen 4 patients die, 5 get intubated, 2 re-intubated, witnessed family consent to make 2 more patients DNRs, sweat my butt off during CPR, titrated so many drips to no avail, watched vent settings increase to no avail. We are exhausted and at a total loss.

All of this in two shifts in a row.

Some of you people have never done EVERYTHING you could to save someone, and watched them die anyway, and it shows.

I would have no problem if you fools worried about your "freedom" all went out and got COVID. If only you could sign a form stating that you revoke your right to have medical treatment based on your cavalier antics and refusal to abide by CDC and medical professionals' advice. If you were the only people who got infected during your escapades to protest tyranny, great. But that's sadly not how this works.

You wanna complain because the garden aisle is closed? If you knew a thing about gardening, you'd know it's too early to plant in Michigan. Your garden doesn't matter. If killing your plants would bring back my patients, I would pillage the **** out of your "essential" garden beds.

Upset because you can't go boating...in Michigan...in April...in the cold-ass water? You wanna tell my patient's daughter (who was sobbing as she said goodbye to her father over the phone) about your first-world problems?

Upset because you can't go to your cottage up north? Your cottage...your second property...used for leisure. My coworkers can't even stay in their regular homes. Most have been staying in hotels and dorms, not able to see their spouses or babies.

All of these posts, petitions online to evade "tyranny", it's all such bull****. I'm sorry you're bored and have nothing to do but bitch and moan. You wanna pick up a couple hours for me? Yeah, didn't think so. I wouldn't trust most of you with patient care, anyway. Not just because of the selfish lack of humanity your posts exude, but because most of those posts and petitions are so riddled with misspellings and grammatical errors, that it makes me question your cognitive capacity.

Shoutout to my coworkers, the real MVPs.”

[Schaumburger]

Originally Posted by coalminer

Some people's narrow view reminds me of the old cigarette smokers logic " it's my body and my right" . No, not when your carelessness can I'll affect me. Grow up, buckle down and ride it out Buttercup

Spot on!

[Schaumburger]

Originally Posted by jswirs

I could not agree more with your assessment. I prefer to live in the good old USA. If I should happen to die from this virus, so be it. I would rather die a free man than live my life in fear or even extreme caution, not knowing what I will have to sacrifice just so that I can continue to live. To quote Julius Cesar, from my high school days, "Cowards die many times before their death, the valiant taste of death but once. It seems to me most strange that men should fear, seeing that death, a necessary end, will come when it will come".

In your reckless and selfish pursuit of freedom, if you catch the virus, please don't spread it to your neighbors, friends, relatives, health care workers who may have to take care of you in the hospital or anyone else who wants to spend a few (or many) more years on this earth. SMH.

[Schaumburger]

Originally Posted by jojoH

in that “liberal sink hole” of NY, more people are working TOGETHER with compassion, kindness, generosity to find the COMMON ground of healing. What are you doing? If we could just find what we we all have in COMMON instead of throwing slurs out to one another. Ponder that, if you will.

Well said!

[Schaumburger]

Originally Posted by Grill Meister

I understand the frustrations that we all share and I understand that in our current situation our life style will and have to change drastically. I know that it hurts to have such a negative impact on ones economy and income. Fortunately, I am not impacted by the economic downturn and so many businesses have to shut their doors and deprive themselves and their employees of income. I also personally feel that I would rather suffer through this situation than to have someone infect the ones I love. I just could not live with that. All that being said, please let me put the situation in a different perspective, which I hope will ameliorate the suffering, pain and frustration:

A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE........
1. There are no bombs raining on our heads
2. I am not a prisoner held in solitary confinement, as millions are.
3. I am not a refugee trying to escape with my life.
4. I am not standing in line waiting to fill a pot of water.
5. I have access to fresh food and I'm not starving.
6. I have hot running water.
7. My country has not been ruined by years of war.
8. I can reach my friends by phone and check in on them.
9. My friends check in on me because they care about me.
10. Any whiplash I feel about this strange turn of events is itself a sign of privilege.
11. More than half of the world would gladly trade their everyday problems for the modest inconveniences I am experiencing.
12. I may have anxious dreams but I'm dreaming them on a proper bed and I'm not sleeping on the sidewalk.
13. By staying at home, I'm helping the planet rest.
14. As long as I have my mind I can create, imagine, dream and not be lonely.
15. This global crisis connects me to people around the world and reminds me of our common humanity. This is a good thing.
16. When something tragic happens to another country next time, I will respond to it not with superiority, but humility and recognition. 17. I will fight for positive changes and economically just policies in my own country.
18. I am surrounded by books.
19. I am surrounded by love.
20. The tulips have already begun to bloom.

Great post...very well said.

[Schaumburger]

Originally Posted by georgea

Thank you Bill 1701 for a bit of wisdom here. We have no idea if this virus is worse than the normal flu that goes thru the population and kills about 60,000 anually. The Government has put out edicts based on models that so far have proven to be grossly overexaggerated. Too many politicians are using this as some sort of power play for themselves, the governor of Michigan for example. I applaud those in Michigan fighting for their rights against the nonsensical edict of their Governor.

I hope those fighting for their "rights" in Michigan don't come down with COVID-19 in 2 to 3 weeks and spread it to their friends, neighbors, family members, fellow shoppers, co-workers, etc. And the "freedom fighters" certainly shouldn't expect health care workers to risk their lives taking care of them if they do end up in the hospital.