[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Well then let's go the other way around. The lowest income that actually pays tax, is taxed at an 18% rate. That lowest income gets the standard deduction, because they don't earn enough to itemize.

Let's apply that to ALL income earners. EVERYONE pays 18%, and none of them get to itemize. Standard deduction only.

I'm okay with that.

That 18% is the MARGINAL rate, not the EFFECTIVE rate...

They actually (effectively) pay NOTHING...

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Speaking of over-generalizations-------WOW

Since that top 1% pays 40% of all income tax, do you really think they average a tax rate of .001875%????? Really?????

Those numbers are just talking points for class warfare and socialistic thinking. I would either tax the 47% at some low rate, even if it is only $10, so at least they have some skin in the game. Alternatively, a constitutional amendment that limits the vote to net taxpayers. If you pay nothing, you can pretty much guarantee you will vote for those that promise you the most "freebies" (ie: other people's money)

OK, now it looks like some are suggesting a method to LIMIT VOTERS. Sort of sounds like a POLL TAX to me. Are we now to go BACKWARD in time about 60 years to POLL TAX? Why are the rich SO AFRAID of VOTERS that they want to ALWAYS find ways to deny VOTING. I thought that I lived in America, land of the FREE (and FREE to VOTE).

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Just compare the tax brackets and tax % of today to those of 1950 (when the middle class was KING). And it is easy to see that upper-income taxpayers control the US. In other words, fewer and FEWER people (the upper 1%) are controlling everything in the US. As less and less people have more and more power.......WHAT DO YOU END UP WITH.........a dictatorship like Hitlers or the current Russian despot. America is headed that way, I hope smart people like the other poster realize this simple fact.

I've explained that "factoid" many times.

Yes, the "MARGINAL" tax rates were higher, but there were SOOOO may deductions that the "EFFECTIVE" rates they were paying back then were LOWER that what they pay now...

I've cited articles, links to prove this. Yet you continue to ignore the facts and post the same nonsense over and over again...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

A flat tax is also something that would be enjoyed by the uber-rich. The only fair federal tax system WAS AND I DO MEAN WAS.......the TRUE PROGRESSIVE tax system used by the US of A in the 1950s. Note to those who don't know what progressive means.......it means that those with the higher income pay a bigger tax % than those with lower incomes. It is the American fair way ..........and it is DEAD today.........Look at the Zuckerbergs and Bezos. They are the beginning of rich industrial fascists that have taken over America.

We have a progressive tax system...

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

In addition to the fact that "wealth" is already taxed at least once if not more:

Person A scrimps and saves, makes prudent choices, lives within their means and accumulates some degree of "wealth". Maybe to enjoy retirement, maybe to pass something on to their kids, but in either case have been responsible citizens.

Person B spends every penny they ever earn---has impulse buying, gets sports cars, a house they can't afford, runs up credit cards and saves nothing, relying on social security and the good will of others when they stop working.

So who is rewarded and who is screwed by a "wealth tax"??? Fair???? I don't think so.

Actually, a sales tax would APPEAR TO BE a fair tax. But, like all flat taxes it in reality punishes the lower wealth people who own almost NOTHING SO must buy clothes, food, school supply and etc. Think about what % of their small income that these necessities represent. (it is HIGH)
..........Now think about what % food and clothes mean to a rich UBER 1% ER. Food and school supplies to them represent about NOTHING as a % of their GIANT incomes.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Actually, a sales tax would APPEAR TO BE a fair tax. But, like all flat taxes it in reality punishes the lower wealth people who own almost NOTHING SO must buy clothes, food, school supply and etc. Think about what % of their small income that these necessities represent. (it is HIGH)
..........Now think about what % food and clothes mean to a rich UBER 1% ER. Food and school supplies to them represent about NOTHING as a % of their GIANT incomes.

But your beloved Scandinavian countries all have a VAT...

Sweden, Finland and Denmark all at 24-25%...

Value Added Tax Rates (VAT) By Country | Tax Foundation

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Actually, a sales tax would APPEAR TO BE a fair tax. But, like all flat taxes it in reality punishes the lower wealth people who own almost NOTHING SO must buy clothes, food, school supply and etc. Think about what % of their small income that these necessities represent. (it is HIGH)
..........Now think about what % food and clothes mean to a rich UBER 1% ER. Food and school supplies to them represent about NOTHING as a % of their GIANT incomes.

Not punishing----making them pay their fair share. Again, why do some believe they deserve a share of other people's money, achievements and success just because they were born????? You want something---go out and EARN it. Instead, we've creating and entire culture of handouts. We even go out of the way to conceal this---for example EBT cards. Why---because they felt pulling out those old food stamps at the grocery checkout was "embarrassing". Good--let them be embarrassed. Maybe it would be an incentive to get off welfare. When welfare was started in the 30's as part of the "new deal", it was a social safety net to prevent starvation in the streets. You got a subsistence living, no more---a cold water flat, a ticket to the government bread and cheese line, no radio, no telephone, no luxuries. Those people would take ANY job to get off "the dole". It was a social stigma and so it should have remained. Instead, we now have 4th generation recipients. And what's worse, they expect it and believe they "deserve" it.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

OK, here's the context:

Who is paying a hugely disproportionate share of the tax burden?????

It is not a "point of view", it is a FACT

You say disproportionately amount. And I say compared to 1950 NOT nearly enough. In the 1950s the US leaders realized that the US government NEEDED to take a large % of the uber RICH's YEARLY SALARY so that they did NOT get TOO POWERFUL and also for the sheer fairness of giving the lower incomes a hand up by good PUBLIC schools and University system. Remember the cost of College in the 50s and 60s. Hint it was a bargain!
.....Compare that to today when Public schools are being STRANGLED to DEATH. And only the uber-rich can send their kids to college. That is the case that I present.........that the middle class has been PURPOSEFULLY decimated from 1975 to today. AND it is even an unconscious way toward future chaos and US instability. Look at our problems today. Rich people like Zuckerberg are determined by greed to SUCK the middle class DRY.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

lower-income people are NOT LOSERS. They have fought all the wars that the US has engaged in (many started by the wealthy for greed and more government contracts). Lower income people are considered NOBLE people in most CARING societies. Try going to Finland and knocking lower income people as losers. They will NOT buy that pathetic BS.
.......Lower income people do ALL the hard, difficult jobs in EVERY country on this planet. They will NOT be called LOSERS BY ME.

Lol, Finland? How they got in the middle of this, sigh…

Anyway, if’s it’s Communist China people desire, one may apply for citizenship. Keep killing incentive in this country and the country will soon look worse than Portland.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

You say disproportionately amount. And I say compared to 1950 NOT nearly enough. In the 1950s the US leaders realized that the US government NEEDED to take a large % of the uber RICH's YEARLY SALARY so that they did NOT get TOO POWERFUL and also for the sheer fairness of giving the lower incomes a hand up by good PUBLIC schools and University system. Remember the cost of College in the 50s and 60s. Hint it was a bargain!
.....Compare that to today when Public schools are being STRANGLED to DEATH. And only the uber-rich can send their kids to college. That is the case that I present.........that the middle class has been PURPOSEFULLY decimated from 1975 to today. AND it is even an unconscious way toward future chaos and US instability. Look at our problems today. Rich people like Zuckerberg are determined by greed to SUCK the middle class DRY.

Public schools are flush with cash... They simply mismanage the $$$, lining their own pockets, rather than spend it on the students...

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

You say disproportionately amount. And I say compared to 1950 NOT nearly enough. In the 1950s the US leaders realized that the US government NEEDED to take a large % of the uber RICH's YEARLY SALARY so that they did NOT get TOO POWERFUL and also for the sheer fairness of giving the lower incomes a hand up by good PUBLIC schools and University system. Remember the cost of College in the 50s and 60s. Hint it was a bargain!
.....Compare that to today when Public schools are being STRANGLED to DEATH. And only the uber-rich can send their kids to college. That is the case that I present.........that the middle class has been PURPOSEFULLY decimated from 1975 to today. AND it is even an unconscious way toward future chaos and US instability. Look at our problems today. Rich people like Zuckerberg are determined by greed to SUCK the middle class DRY.

Thankfully, factual reality trumps "what you say"

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Thank you. And that's the fallacy of those who want them to pay even more---We don't pay our bills in "percentage points". Federal employees don't deposit "percentages" every week. We pay in DOLLARS, and 1.5 billion is plenty of them. Geez, the mentality of those that think they deserve a piece of his pie simply because they were born.

They DON'T deserve it by simply being born. They deserve it because they earned RESPECT by being low level Sargents and enlisted men and women in ALL branches of the US military. I say RESPECT them. And RESPECT the low-ranking police patrolmen and women. Respect the low-paid staff of workers in every hospital in the USA. Respect the dog walkers and the UBER drivers and taxi drivers. Respect the staff in a Hospice that cleans the bed pans and deals with end-of-life problems.
.......Respect ALL the low-paid WORKERS that make America WORK and get little attention and barely survive in an economy where their protectors - the worker unions have been for all practical purposes PUT TO DEATH in today's economy. But Wall Street enTRAPanors seem to be THRIVING. And, will they be so cocky and self-assured when they get old and need their bed-pans changed by some lowly hospital WORKERS?

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

They DON'T deserve it by simply being born. They deserve it because they earned RESPECT by being low level Sargents and enlisted men and women in ALL branches of the US military. I say RESPECT them. And RESPECT the low-ranking police patrolmen and women. Respect the low-paid staff of workers in every hospital in the USA. Respect the dog walkers and the UBER drivers and taxi drivers. Respect the staff in a Hospice that cleans the bed pans and deals with end-of-life problems.
.......Respect ALL the low-paid WORKERS that make America WORK and get little attention and barely survive in an economy where their protectors - the worker unions have been for all practical purposes PUT TO DEATH in today's economy. But Wall Street enTRAPanors seem to be THRIVING. And, will they be so cocky and self-assured when they get old and need their bed-pans changed by some lowly hospital WORKERS?

I'm not talking about workers---they do deserve respect. I'm talking about those who choose not to work and instead live off the government teat (ie: the rest of us). This does not include the disabled who cannot work. However, I would never define alcoholism or drug addiction as a "disability"----I could certainly find something for them to do. It does , however, specifically refer to able bodied individuals who could work, but instead choose to run scams, or deal drugs, or have 6 children by 6 different fathers then lay all day on the couch watching Oprah. Believe me, I can find work for them---they won't like it, but I'd find it.

[rustyp]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

Not dreaming........How was the base wealth generated & not taxed???

Don't give minor exceptions...........explain how the vast majority of the base wealth was not taxed.

I'm curious.

Exclude paper wealth.

Look up "step basis at death".

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Not punishing----making them pay their fair share. Again, why do some believe they deserve a share of other people's money, achievements and success just because they were born????? You want something---go out and EARN it. Instead, we've creating and entire culture of handouts. We even go out of the way to conceal this---for example EBT cards. Why---because they felt pulling out those old food stamps at the grocery checkout was "embarrassing". Good--let them be embarrassed. Maybe it would be an incentive to get off welfare. When welfare was started in the 30's as part of the "new deal", it was a social safety net to prevent starvation in the streets. You got a subsistence living, no more---a cold water flat, a ticket to the government bread and cheese line, no radio, no telephone, no luxuries. Those people would take ANY job to get off "the dole". It was a social stigma and so it should have remained. Instead, we now have 4th generation recipients. And what's worse, they expect it and believe they "deserve" it.

It is TRUE that NO system is perfect. So, there will be abusers of ANY system. Welfare, started in the 30s was a COMPASSIONATE method of SPREADING America's GREAT WEALTH around to all citizens. In general, success in life has MANY more variables than MERELY hard work. Yard maintenance people today work HARD, but they are NEVER likely to be economically successful. There are many other factors, not just hard work that determines economic success. Who are your parents? How is your HEALTH? What DNA have your parents given to you? What is your IQ. Motivation - some people have high motivation, others lower. Were you ABLE to afford college? We mentioned today that other than sports stars, only rich children of rich parents can afford most colleges. Do you have a teenage criminal violation? Then maybe you can't EVEN get into the military. How hard would that be to come back from..........less than 1% can probably ever do that?
......If you are successful and rich today, then you probably enjoyed MANY advantages. It is NOT just hard work that determines a person's wealth status!