Originally Posted by Evanleo (Post 726284)

I recently had to use the non-gate at Paradise to take my husband to the Vilage emergency room. That option is no longr available to us. Thank you ,whoever to the big brain who created this mess that denies us this convenience. You have created a huge group of unhappy villagers. What ever happened to the friendlyest home town?

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr (Post 726205)

I suppose that could be a reason, but the ALC has been under construction for almost a year now. Why would the gate not have been closed when the plans for construction were approved?

There are several possible reasons that the wall went up. They may have found some non residents playing on a golf course or using a pool after hours, new lawyers may have felt that there is some kind of liability issue, the insurance company may have raise the rates because they just discovered what has been going on, residents may have been complaining about the traffic or there may have been an accident or close call of some sort.

These are all speculation just as the ALC being the reason is speculation. The supposed feud between Morse and Brown is also speculation. No one knows exactly what happened and all of this speculation doesn't help. I've met several people over the past few days that have told me that they absolutely know the reason. The problem is that they all had different reasons.

When people post all of these speculative reasons, they tend to grow and people repeat them like they are the absolute truth. I don't think that that does anyone any good.

"Maybe it's because", becomes, "I heard that it's because', which then becomes, "I know it's because". Then people for some reason what to defend their position.

Some people don't like the Morses because of some things they've done and other people simply don't like successful people. They really want this to be about greed and Morse acting like Ebenezer Scrooge so they can say, "See I told you so. All rich people are evil and out to get us".

I think that we all need to take a deep breath and ask ourselves what do we really know as fact and stop all the speculation.

What we do know now is that a plan has been proposed and if approved, which most people seem to think it will be, it will be good for the residents of the Villages and we will be back to our lovely lifestyle once again.

We can go on saying that we don't believe it, or it's all a set up, but what good does that really do anyone. I say wait and see and in the next few weeks if we don't hear of anything good happening start getting on the VHAs back about it. They took the initiative to meet with the developer and try to work something out. The ball is now in their court. But we have to give them a chance to see if they can produce what they are promising.

Originally Posted by chuckinca (Post 726141)

Should read:
The bottom line is Stonecrest is NOT very happy that Spruce Creek will xxx be able to get to Wal-Mart and the other shops on the East Side of 441/27 legally.

Stonecrest people are concerned about the Spruce Creek cart traffic on the frontage roads that are very dangerous due to 441/27 drivers avoiding the light at Sonic/CVS into Walmart by driving thru the Stonecrest frontage roads. Spruce Creek could have asked for permission to cross at the Sonic/CVS light crossing as they have access to it thru their back gate. A legal cart crossing there would have been available for use by Spuce Creek, Stonecrest and the Villages and would have been great for those stores and a safer drive for Spruce Creek Carts.

Stonecrest has automatic cart gates north and south of Walmart and do not usually drive carts on the frontage roads.

.

Originally Posted by Peachie (Post 726048)

Oot, if you have ever rented or stayed at a motel in The Villages, you are residing in The Villages and on Villages property. That statement doesn't compare to providing a service to Stonecrest, (gate access) on a 24/7 basis for which we pay a premium.

Residents of Stonecrest, as I said earlier, I'm sure are very nice, good people, I think EdV is a good example of that. I think I'm also a very nice, neat, careful person but would you open the back door of your house and tell me or anyone in the vicinity to come in and use the TV or the kitchen or whatever anytime? We wouldn't cause any wear and tear...

The residents in Stonecrest bought there and not in The Villages for all of their own reasons and I respect that. It's a nice community.
They did not opt to live and pay amenity fees in The Villages. I guess I don't understand the philosophy that Villagers need to open their back door and provide for Stonecrest and Spruce Creek, or any other development in that area, so they may use golf cart access. Once it is established there shall be public access to that area by any golf carts, you can't go back. Is it fair to the residents in OB to lay additional cart traffic next to and past their homes?

Originally Posted by co519 (Post 726325)

Many people from TV seem to have a problem with Stonecrest accessing the villages by golf cart. So you would rather have them and anybody else in a car drive around your neighborhood? I am sure you realize that anybody that knows how to push a button can get in and drive a car anywhere they want and access all those areas you claim to be so sacred. I seem to be missing the problem of having golf carts as apposed to any car from any place in any state just driving around, Just my little thought!!!

Originally Posted by scres (Post 726320)

"Stonecrest people are concerned" Can you be more specific. This is erroneous. What Stonecrest people are concerned? Who and/or what is the source of your information? I know many Stonecrest residents and they are not concerned about the 441 crossing. Do you represent Stonecrest?

Originally Posted by oot (Post 725865)

I agree with you EdV. There may be people on the other side who have grown to use businesses on our side of the wall as well. They may use doctors in our community. It is a shame this whole situation ever happened in the first place.

People from communities like Stonecrest should not be able to use our pools and such...and I don't they go out of their way to do so. They have their own pool (which is really nice!) They do however, spend money at the stores, which helps keep those stores in our community.

Even if they were to drive a cart on one of the paths instead of the public streets - is it really that big of a deal. Life is short - can't we all just get along??

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr (Post 726440)

In order to get to Publix or Target, Stonecrest residents have to cut across a small piece of property that is owned by the Villages.
....

Originally Posted by Village Airport Van (Post 726491)

Read what district administrator Janet Tutt has to say on this topic:

Janet Tutt blames social media for 'Berlin Wall' controversy - **************

Originally Posted by Village Airport Van (Post 726491)

Read what district administrator Janet Tutt has to say on this topic:

Janet Tutt blames social media for 'Berlin Wall' controversy - **************

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr (Post 726422)

Does anyone else find this hysterical?

Originally Posted by EdV (Post 726458)

That path is the only way to get to/from the state DOT approved bridge that crosses 441, a state highway. The state would have never approved the bridge unless that path was also made public.

Can we stop quibbling over patches of cart paths now?

Originally Posted by justjim (Post 726523)

Wow! Wow! So according to Janet Tutt, Social Media caused this problem. How about just a "little bit" of transparency before you affect the lives of the elderly of "your" kingdom?

Originally Posted by CFrance (Post 726532)

I so agree!!! How can she blame social media when social media requested an explanation repeatedly and got nothing but silence?

There is nothing wrong with speculation on a social forum. If she didn't like it, she should have come clean with the reason.

Her statement is appalling and insulting.

Originally Posted by Peachie (Post 726514)

The comment section does make me think that perhaps all of the people exhorting the fact that Mr. Schwartz would never run things the way his son and heirs are currently, should consider the fact the HE brought his son Gary Morse into his development project because he was having problems making the whole thing fly. Mr. Schwartz was very happy, I'm sure, to enjoy the business acumen his brilliant son, Gary Morse, possessed. Mr. Schwartz could afford to be affable and social, the successful business yoke was on his son's neck. (BTW, I understand Gary Morse is also extremely affable but I've never met him.)

Originally Posted by Bucco (Post 726539)

As this board becomes overwhelmed with anti Village, anti Morse family, anti developer folks, keep in mind that when Harold started this place, and when he died, it was a pittance compared to the present time.

This is not an easy place to "run"...it is extremely complicated an while some may think they have all the answers, I wonder because they do not even have all the facts to come to an answer.

Expressing concern, questioning why is all fine but the sarcastic comments about this man, his family, the paper is not only uncalled for, but step back....it is lacking in any credence.

Express your questions, but being sarcastic about the "kingdom" as someone termed it is just not productive to anything.

I have been here for a bit, and questioned a number of things, but sometimes as I pursued my question, I found out that maybe, just maybe, the developer or the folks in charge had mucho more information than I to make their decision and to my knowledge make decisions in the best interest of The Villages...perhaps not what I want and perhaps not always what he or the family wants, but based on law, facts, etc....never knew them to hurt or do anything that would hurt the residents just to hurt them.

Originally Posted by Bucco (Post 726539)

As this board becomes overwhelmed with anti Village, anti Morse family, anti developer folks, keep in mind that when Harold started this place, and when he died, it was a pittance compared to the present time.

This is not an easy place to "run"...it is extremely complicated an while some may think they have all the answers, I wonder because they do not even have all the facts to come to an answer.

Expressing concern, questioning why is all fine but the sarcastic comments about this man, his family, the paper is not only uncalled for, but step back....it is lacking in any credence.

Express your questions, but being sarcastic about the "kingdom" as someone termed it is just not productive to anything.

I have been here for a bit, and questioned a number of things, but sometimes as I pursued my question, I found out that maybe, just maybe, the developer or the folks in charge had mucho more information than I to make their decision and to my knowledge make decisions in the best interest of The Villages...perhaps not what I want and perhaps not always what he or the family wants, but based on law, facts, etc....never knew them to hurt or do anything that would hurt the residents just to hurt them.

Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 726535)

Whoa....appalling and insulting. She has a job to do and probably wants to keep it. I know I want her to keep it.

CFrance. You know that I always agree with you, but it was a matter of three or four days until something happened as an attempt to resolve this dumb thing that they did.

We are all old enough to know that when a problem surfaces in any organization; business, church, charity,social club that meetings transpire and things are debated (argued).

Solutions are sometimes fair and transparent but most times cloudy and face saving. We can see that even in the way this country is run.

We need to keep calm and carry on. See if this doesn't work out and if it doesn't then we can go right back to the sturm und drang.

That is what I think. What do I know. I love you to pieces CFrance. You are probably right again.

Originally Posted by Peachie (Post 726520)

EdV, did the state grant an easement over the highway for the bridge or did the state build the bridge for the public? I don't know where to find that information.

I don't think it's fair to state that we're quibbling over patches of cart paths. The Villages is designed with patches of cart paths all over and that doesn't make them any less private.

Originally Posted by CFrance (Post 726550)

Okay, Gracie. I hear ya. But still... a little bit of transparency and better PR work would have gone a long way. And then to have someone turn around and blame "social media" (I'm assuming she's referring to TOTV) is maddening. Like it's our fault for speculating after they refused to answer any questions from the many who called to ask why.

They need to beef up their PR department!

Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 726535)

Whoa....appalling and insulting. She has a job to do and probably wants to keep it. I know I want her to keep it.

CFrance. You know that I always agree with you, but it was a matter of three or four days until something happened as an attempt to resolve this dumb thing that they did.

We are all old enough to know that when a problem surfaces in any organization; business, church, charity,social club that meetings transpire and things are debated (argued).

Solutions are sometimes fair and transparent but most times cloudy and face saving. We can see that even in the way this country is run.

We need to keep calm and carry on. See if this doesn't work out and if it doesn't then we can go right back to the sturm und drang.

That is what I think. What do I know. I love you to pieces CFrance. You are probably right again.

Originally Posted by EdV (Post 726552)

I thought it would suffice to simply point out that one need not travel on amenity maintained paths to get from Stonecrest to Spanish Springs etc. by cart. But apparently not. So:

Per TV’s districtgov website: “A Community Development District is a public non-profit unit of local government with the special purpose of providing the services described above. As a unit of local government, the District is subject to many of the same State Statutes that regulate cities and counties.”

So the roads in a CDD are public, not private. Furthermore, both the roads and the multi-modal paths were built using tax free municipal funds, not private developer funds. And those paths were built specifically to provide cart access where travel in the roads would not be safe. And since those paths are the only way for a cart to get through that area, they too must be available to the public. And the fact that they are maintained by amenity funds does not preclude this.

The by-laws of Stonecrest require us to allow public vehicle access to the Links of Stonecrest golf course even though the golf course is privately owned and the roads are maintained by our association funds.

Originally Posted by ajbrown (Post 726564)

In the end it matters little what I think :blahblahblah:, but I would have liked to see Janet Tutt’s statement start a bit more like the following:

“We” (unclear who we is) made a mistake. We were faced with a situation where we had to close this wall for “a situation with liability on the property and security”. As a team (whoever that is) we did not properly understand the impact of that decision to our residents. In hindsight we could have managed this much more effectively. The situation then took on a life of its own because of social media……

The only other explanation (which I prefer to not accept) is that "they" did think about this and did not care and are now back pedaling.

Having spent many years in network security for large information technology organizations I have made this mistake.