[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI

A google search will find hours of reading and watching videos of news reports where an armed citizen saved their life or another person's. Many times, just the brandishing of a weapon to a thug wanting to victimize a person has prevented the assault.
The NRA magazine every month lists 6 or so news reports of an armed good guy stopping a criminal act. The source for the article is also provided so it can be independently verified.

True words.

Back in Minnesota, when permit-to-carry first went into effect nearly 20 years ago now, the doom-and-gloomers were predicting dead bodies on the streets so thick that they'd have to pick 'em up with a front-end loader. Didn't happen, of course. But a couple of other interesting things did. For example, a lot of the people opposing permit-to-carry, if they were business owners, put up those signs NO GUNS ALLOWED ON THESE PREMISES. The signs came down right quick when it became glaringly apparent that those were the businesses being targeted by the crooks and stickup artists.

The bad guys just don't like their targets shooting back.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

I think that carrying a concealed firearm SHOULD require special licenses and training and methods to keep mental patients and recent felons from buying or carrying guns.

There are already Federal and State laws preventing precisely what you're afraid of...

......I would be fine with non-concealed carry, BUT..........a big BUT.......if I were in charge of the US, I would require all guns sold to civilians to be SINGLE-SHOT (EVEN including pistols). That way there could be very few MASS MURDERS.
........Everyone knows that the US has the MOST Gun violence and the MOST guns. That is a DIRECT PROPORTION where more VIOLENCE happens because of MORE guns in society.

Nope... Switzerland and Finland have a very high number of guns per capita (close to 30 per 100 people), with much less "gun violence"...

Care to explain that?

The US bar chart of gun VIOLENCE compared to other countries is COMPLETELY "off the chart".

If you remove just 5 cities, the US ranks at the very bottom of gun violence per capita...

https://youtu.be/pELwCqz2JfE

..........America has to wake up some time from this national NIGHTMARE caused by the ALL-POWERFUL greed and power promoted for the GUN manufacturers by the NRA.

So the NRA is the Wizard of Oz?

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive

True, except that now, in order to get a permit, you have to certify that you have read and understand the applicable laws. Whether or not you actually DID that might be another story entirely, but at least you're on record as having done so. There would be no such safeguard with constitutional carry.

Same thing when you buy a gun at a gun shop...

[Two Bills]

I always have this vision of a Christmas balloon exploding in a local Walmarts, Publix, Restaurant etc. and about half the geriatrics with guns blasting at anything that moves.
Then the Police arrive and start shooting, adding to the mayhem.
Make a great finale to a film.
"Gunfight at the Golden Coral!"

[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

There are already Federal and State laws preventing precisely what you're afraid of...



Nope... Switzerland and Finland have a very high number of guns per capita (close to 30 per 100 people), with much less "gun violence"...

Care to explain that?



If you remove just 5 cities, the US ranks at the very bottom of gun violence per capita...

https://youtu.be/pELwCqz2JfE



So the NRA is the Wizard of Oz?

Good points.

The precise reason I automatically mistrust emotional arguments.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive

"There are two primary statutes in Florida outlining when the use of deadly force is justified so as to avoid criminal liability. Under Section 776.012, Florida Statutes (Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” Law), a person is justified in using deadly force (and does not have a duty to retreat) if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony or to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another. Under Section 782.02, Florida Statutes, the use of deadly force is further justified when a person is resisting any attempt to murder such person or to commit any felony upon him or her or upon or in any dwelling house in which the person is located.

If the defendant is in his or her home or vehicle, then, under Section 776.013, Florida Statutes, the law will presume that the defendant had a reasonable fear of imminent death or bodily harm if the alleged victim unlawfully entered or remained or attempted to remove another person against their will. A person who unlawfully and by force enters or attempts to enter another’s home or vehicle is furthermore presumed to be doing so with the intent to commit an unlawful act involving force or violence." (hussein and weber dot com, "self-defense under Florida law")

So despite the claim of the poster to the contrary, there ARE times when, under Florida law, it IS legal to kill another human being.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Sorry, but that is a little like the chicken and the egg controversy.......WHICH one came FIRST? MAYBE NOW, today people may feel a NEED to carry a gun, but it happened AFTER the NRA captured the US government to produce giant PROFITS for the Gun industry OWNERS. And the "LITTLE PEOPLE" suffered the consequences.
........If one remembers back to between WW2 and 1960 the NRA was a HUNTING organization not A HUNTING HUMANS and killing humans organization. AND my Grandfather and father had HUNTING animals-type guns NOT semi-auto 30-round magazine, human-killing $3,000 military-style weapons of WAR ! And you-all will remember that MURDERS were few and far between back then. And the demented MASS-murder scene of TODAY did NOT even exist.
.........Which came 1st the MAN killings or the MAN killing weapons? I KNOW that I know!

Yes, back then, kids came to school with their guns in their trucks. Their hunting rifles, their SEMI-AUTO rifles, their shotguns...

After Christmas, they brought their new guns to show their friends.

And miraculously, no one was shot...

But sure, the NRA brainwashed an entire country into buying "DEATH MACHINES"!!!

I'm sure it had nothing to do with the generations of kids being on psychotropic medications...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI

That's true and most of them have driver's licenses that allow them to operate 4,000 lb motor vehicles. No re-taking the driver's exam or demonstrate they can still drive safely.

And thank god, no one has ever used a car or a truck as a weapon...

Oh, wait...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI

A google search will find hours of reading and watching videos of news reports where an armed citizen saved their life or another person's. Many times, just the brandishing of a weapon to a thug wanting to victimize a person has prevented the assault.
The NRA magazine every month lists 6 or so news reports of an armed good guy stopping a criminal act. The source for the article is also provided so it can be independently verified.

According to the FBI and the CDC, that happens between 400,000 and 2.5 MILLION times/year...

Guns Prevent Thousands of Crimes Every Day, Research Shows - Foundation for Economic Education

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Garywt

I try not to think about it. I have never had a desire to get a gun and have never been in a situation that I wish I had one. If people carry them, then they do.

A perfectly reasonable and rational reply...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Two Bills

I always have this vision of a Christmas balloon exploding in a local Walmarts, Publix, Restaurant etc. and about half the geriatrics with guns blasting at anything that moves.
Then the Police arrive and start shooting, adding to the mayhem.
Make a great finale to a film.
"Gunfight at the Golden Coral!"

Maybe you should lay off the "funny mushrooms"...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive

Good points.

The precise reason I automatically mistrust emotional arguments.

Most arguments agains guns ARE emotional...

[bsloan1960]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Sorry, but that is a little like the chicken and the egg controversy.......WHICH one came FIRST? MAYBE NOW, today people may feel a NEED to carry a gun, but it happened AFTER the NRA captured the US government to produce giant PROFITS for the Gun industry OWNERS. And the "LITTLE PEOPLE" suffered the consequences.
........If one remembers back to between WW2 and 1960 the NRA was a HUNTING organization not A HUNTING HUMANS and killing humans organization. AND my Grandfather and father had HUNTING animals-type guns NOT semi-auto 30-round magazine, human-killing $3,000 military-style weapons of WAR ! And you-all will remember that MURDERS were few and far between back then. And the demented MASS-murder scene of TODAY did NOT even exist.
.........Which came 1st the MAN killings or the MAN killing weapons? I KNOW that I know!

You began by stating my point was moot- then went off on a tangent. It doesn't matter if it began with a chicken or egg. What matters is a gunman killing people in a public place in the Here and Now and a person showing up with a gun to stop him from shooting more people. This is what occurs- Now. There is no philosophy or social analysis involved... or anger at the gun lobby. When a shooter is aiming at human targets I'll fire a shot at him while you argue The NRA is corrupt. Let's see who stops him. YES. There is a place for arguments. But not at the time and place of the scenario I described earlier.

[Bogie Shooter]

Why stop with concealed carry…..go for open carry!
The macho guys can show off their pretty guns.

[mikreb]

Originally Posted by Bilyclub

No, do I want every wacko on the street packing, hell no.
The bigger question is why do retired LEO's have to qualify every year, and CCL holders only every 7 years ?

Because retired LEO's are required annually in order to maintain qualified immunity. Citizens are not allowed to make a mistake but trained law enforcement officers can and do with impunity.