[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

It IS so important that it should be voted on like a referendum on the next major election by ALL the people of Florida that go to the polls. I don't TRUST the Florida legislation to do the RIGHT THING.

I don’t think that “trust” in the legislature is a valid issue. The constitutional mechanism is there. The representatives in
Tallahassee of We The People are doing their jobs. The bill to establish constitutional carry is proceeding as it should. And after all, as citizens of a representative republic our allegiance is to a SYSTEM, not to any particular political stance or ideology. No system can—or should—acquiesce to a certain ideology or way of thinking, no matter how earnestly the proponents of that ideology or way of thinking might wish it.

To be honest, any system of governance that lined up precisely with my thinking would scare the living h3ll out of me.

[Boston-Sean]

Originally Posted by Hardlyworking

I had a carry permit in TN. I didn’t carry a gun everywhere I went, only to certain places. I doubt I will carry anywhere in TV but going outside, I will definitely carry one. After I took the class and passed both the classroom part and the qualifying, I paid the instructor for additional lessons on shooting in different situations and also situational awareness. The latter will sometimes help you more than having a gun.

Carrying a gun is a pain in the arse. There is no real comfortable position to carry one. Also, carrying a gun large enough to do you any good beyond 10’ makes it much worse. My carry weapon is a Ruger LCP .380. Small, but wildly inaccurate beyond 10’. I have big hands which makes it even harder to use the gun.

"NYPD firearms expert Frank McGee says the typical police gunfight conforms to a “rule of three:” three rounds, 3 yards, three seconds. Even that might be overstating the duration of the average shootout. Studies show that 85 percent of slain police officers are killed before firing a shot, and nearly 70 percent of gunfights take place over a distance of less than 2 yards."

Civilian encounters are likely very similar.

At a distance of 10 feet on a human size target I would not blame the gun for being inaccurate. Practice more and I'm sure that gun will get more accurate.

Finding a gun you can comfortably carry and shoot well can be a challenge. But it is doable. In winter clothing I carry a Sig P229 legion, in summer clothing a Sig P365 XL. The regular size P365 was a little too small for me. Sig just came out with 17 round mags for all versions of the P365 (9mm). The extended mags do make it harder to conceal though.

I doubt I'll be carrying much in TV.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

.

The problem with this is that all multi shot guns would then be owned by criminals. If you think that by passing a law, we are going to prevent crimes, you're wrong. Laws don't prevent crimes, they simply define what crime is and provide punishment for breaking the law.

We already have laws against killing people. Do you think that gang bangers and other criminals are going to follow the law and only get single shot guns? if they are willing to break other laws then they'll be willing to break this one.


Does anyone think that multi shot guns wouldn't be available? Just look at states like California where they have laws restricting magazine capacity. They still have mass murders by people carrying more capacity than the law allows.

Does anyone know if this proposed law is going to allow open carry or would it be concealed only?

I have heard that point before, but riddle me this Batman - What if the Police took away every mult-shot weapon from the people that they arrest or search and paid a small bounty on turning them in? And then sold them in Africa or South America to pay for the bounties. After a short time period the total multi-shot weapon population might go down by 25%. Then, what would happen.......Yes, the COST of mult-shot weapons might go up ......maybe to 50% higher than before the ban. So, only the more affluent GANGSTA-types would afford them and the 2-bit PUNK could NOT. This would continue and Police departments would be buying the multi-shot weapons off the street and selling them abroad. Legal gunsmiths would NOT be allowed to work on civilian multi-shots, so many would fall into disrepair and be useless.
............Eventually, over 80% of all multi-shot weapons would be gone from the US. Now, I ask you and others, in all sincerety have you EVER heard of any plan or a better plan to fight CRIME and get the MOST DANGEROUS capable of mass-murder .......type guns off of the streets.
...........The answer my friends.......IS NO..........if you are BEING HONEST and NOT just saying, "I like my multi-shot weapons and I will hold my breath and NOT have an open mind about ANYTHING."
...........And therein lies the problem - there IS a solution to gun crimes, but no one in the US wants to have an open mind. And the NRA is a POWERFUL lobbying organization that does NOT mind screwing up US people!

[Boston-Sean]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

I have heard that point before, but riddle me this Batman - What if the Police took away every mult-shot weapon from the people that they arrest or search and paid a small bounty on turning them in? And then sold them in Africa or South America to pay for the bounties.

If these "multi-shot" guns are as dangerous as you claim why would you want to dump them on the people of Africa and South America???

Oh, wait. Black + Brown people live there.

I guess White Supremacy exists even in TV.

[Boston-Sean]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Legal gunsmiths would NOT be allowed to work on civilian multi-shots, so many would fall into disrepair and be useless.

My main gun that I shoot in Steel Challenge matches has about 25K rounds through it. The only work a gunsmith has done on it was an upgrade of the trigger. And that was not necessary for the gun to function. At some point I imagine I'll need to replace the barrel and maybe the extractor and/or a spring or 2 but nothing that will require a gunsmith.

That gun will run for years of very heavy use.

The average gun owner will never need to use a gunsmith.

I'm beginning to think that you don't know a lot about firearms. It's just a hunch I have.

[Kenswing]

Originally Posted by Boston-Sean

My main gun that I shoot in Steel Challenge matches has about 25K rounds through it. The only work a gunsmith has done on it was an upgrade of the trigger. And that was not necessary for the gun to function. At some point I imagine I'll need to replace the barrel and maybe the extractor and/or a spring or 2 but nothing that will require a gunsmith.

That gun will run for years of very heavy use.

The average gun owner will never need to use a gunsmith.

I'm beginning to think that you don't know a lot about firearms. It's just a hunch I have.

Don't be his latest sucker. He will say anything to forward his agenda whether he can support his conclusions with facts or not. He figures the more outrageous of a statement he can make the more of a rise he'll get from people on this forum. He calls it "discussion". lol

[MorTech]

An armed society is a polite society.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by MorTech

An armed society is a polite society.

No, an armed society is a fearful society.

A polite society doesn't need arms.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Byte1

What "propaganda?"
How does the NRA make "lots of big money?"
What "little people" are you speaking of? Leprechauns? Dwarfs?
Is there something wrong with the USA having the most guns? We also have the most TVs in our homes. Is that going to make us dangerous?
What "mind-numbing TV channel" are you speaking of?

Why NOT just ask me to write a book on the subject? If enough people can come up with enough money, I could write a book on the subject and I could fill in all the intuitively obvious statements. AND I could quote some HISTORY and name, the persons, places, and even the TV channel in question. And maybe even some dark web propaganda pushers.
....... sounds like a lot of work.

[Boston-Sean]

Originally Posted by Kenswing

Don't be his latest sucker. He will say anything to forward his agenda whether he can support his conclusions with facts or not. He figures the more outrageous of a statement he can make the more of a rise he'll get from people on this forum. He calls it "discussion". lol

Yes, you are probably right. No one could be as stupid as he appears. Chalk it up to trolling.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive

I don’t think that “trust” in the legislature is a valid issue. The constitutional mechanism is there. The representatives in
Tallahassee of We The People are doing their jobs. The bill to establish constitutional carry is proceeding as it should. And after all, as citizens of a representative republic our allegiance is to a SYSTEM, not to any particular political stance or ideology. No system can—or should—acquiesce to a certain ideology or way of thinking, no matter how earnestly the proponents of that ideology or way of thinking might wish it.

To be honest, any system of governance that lined up precisely with my thinking would scare the living h3ll out of me.

"Our allegiance is to a SYSTEM" ?????? Like A capitalist SYSTEM,MAYBE ? OK, good. I can live with that system as long as MOST people ACKNOWLEDGE that it is a system that can come out of balance in a heartbeat and turn into a CORRUPT capitalist SYSTEM. To stay in balance the Capitalistic SYSTEM of the US Government requires THREE EQUAL branches with EQUAL power. Do we have that at the Federal level........sometimes in History, but NOT currently.
..........Now, at the state level in Florida, for example......do we have equity and equality for ALL PEOPLE, by ethnicity, color, sex, race, and INCOME level. I think that we-all KNOW the answer to that one! Is the state working toward reducing the CRUSHING problem of global warming and its causing deteriorating coral reefs and intensifying HEAT and the chance of Hurricanes? Is Florida protecting coastal people, property, and wealth? Were coastal people or all people in Florida protected against Hurricane IAN since it is well known that Gulf water temperatures have been increasing for 8 years and set a record last year.
..........So since I feel that the State of Florida has let its sales-tax-paying-citizens DOWN for the last 4 or 5 years - YES I believe that we will be let down again by this SO-CALLED Constitutional (just to invoke the US Constitution) carry to allow any clown to carry a gun and show what a big man (or woman) that they are.
...........When the LAW becomes LAWLESS and inconsiderate and full of personal AMBITION, what is a citizen to DO ? If I had the resources, I think that I might move to a small town near Portland, Or.
..........I'd have to consider Australia, New Zealand, or maybe Spain. Canada would be nice in the summer.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Boston-Sean

"NYPD firearms expert Frank McGee says the typical police gunfight conforms to a “rule of three:” three rounds, 3 yards, three seconds. Even that might be overstating the duration of the average shootout. Studies show that 85 percent of slain police officers are killed before firing a shot, and nearly 70 percent of gunfights take place over a distance of less than 2 yards."

Civilian encounters are likely very similar.

At a distance of 10 feet on a human size target I would not blame the gun for being inaccurate. Practice more and I'm sure that gun will get more accurate.

Finding a gun you can comfortably carry and shoot well can be a challenge. But it is doable. In winter clothing I carry a Sig P229 legion, in summer clothing a Sig P365 XL. The regular size P365 was a little too small for me. Sig just came out with 17 round mags for all versions of the P365 (9mm). The extended mags do make it harder to conceal though.

I doubt I'll be carrying much in TV.

If it is 3 rounds, 3 seconds, and 3 ft - then you only need 3 rounds, so why have an extender magazine?

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Boston-Sean

If these "multi-shot" guns are as dangerous as you claim why would you want to dump them on the people of Africa and South America???

Oh, wait. Black + Brown people live there.

I guess White Supremacy exists even in TV.

That IS a stretch to try and infer that I had some HIDDEN agenda about Africa and S. America. I meant NOTHING about race.......I meant that they could be SOLD in unstable countries that are at war. Most of those are in Africa and S. America. But, I don't care if they are sold in Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, or any other stan countries. they can be dumped in the ocean. My point is find the BEST way to get rid of them.
.........Incidentally Australia DID eliminate semi-auto rifles and allowed bolt action. That was a good compromise and it worked for them. they have almost ZERO mass murders. Can the US say the same thing??????? Answer NO.
I myself would do Australia ONE BETTER and go to single-shot for all pistols and rifles.
...........TODAY America wants some kind of a solution......desperately. They want to BAN semi-autos, but that won't be all that MEANINGFUL. Because you (if you know guns) and I BOTH know that a good rifleman can shoot a pump rifle as fast as a semi-auto. In Both cases, there IS a little delay in getting the sight back on target after the recoil. Even the .223 has SOME recoil. Anyway the U