[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

So why wasn't it well over $4.00/gallon BEFORE the pandemic, when people were actually driving MORE than they are now?

Before the Pandemic was a completely different period than today. Today the world is severely stressed by the threat of an ongoing war - that could conceivably drive the cost of gasoline to as much as $ 10.00 per gal in the US. All financial markets and oil futures HATE the unknown!

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

Yet prices rose over the past year+ (since November of 2020, well before Putin invaded Ukraine) even when there was less demand...

Gas prices in 2019 (before the pandemic and before the drop in demand) were about $2.50/gallon. Yet, once the pandemic hit, the only dropped a bit (to just over $2.20) during 2020. They did drop as the year progressed to under $2.00/gallon in late October/early November of 2020.

They went up over $1.00/gallon (during the peak of the pandemic and lockdowns) from November 2020 thru February 2022. (which is counter to your explanation that they should be lower due to less demand).

Once the Ukraine invasion began, they went up another $1.00+/gallon...

So to answer your question.. Your response was crystal clear. It was just incorrect...

Sorry, its appears you are not interested. So, we will need to agree to disagree.

I am certain I don't know what all the causes are, but I am equally certain that your saying because two things did not happen simultaneously means they did not affect each other is also wrong. Seems somewhere back there you said Oil (actually big business) hates uncertainty, and that was based on futures - so, anyway.

Have fun, try reading some about global economics, the impact of the pandemic, and how just in time economics work.

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

Am I being unclear or are you just trying to be hard to get along with?

My reference to les demand was over the past 2 years when people were staying home because of the pandemic. Now, that people are starting to go back to work demand is picking up but slowly. It is estimated that demand was down to 1/2 of the pre-pandemic demand for the past two years. That resulted in gas price dropping a lot (down to around $2.00/gal or less). Now, demand is spicing up quickly, the sanctions on Russia are impacting supply (worldwide) and oil companies are making historic profits (so, not highly motivated to increase production).

So, you’re blaming wall-street, there the ones driving market. Oil companies sell on commodities stock exchange what ever the price is. So, all people buy/selling oil stock are also making historical profit’s. But, that’s ok for them, but not oil company actually producing it.

And another thing, you never responded to “ isn’t all crud oil dirty and hard to clean up”?

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Before the Pandemic was a completely different period than today. Today the world is severely stressed by the threat of an ongoing war - that could conceivably drive the cost of gasoline to as much as $ 10.00 per gal in the US. All financial markets and oil futures HATE the unknown!

Don’t you mean the stock market severely stressing the world?

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by Topspinmo

So, you’re blaming wall-street, there the ones driving market. Oil companies sell on commodities stock exchange what ever the price is. So, all people buy/selling oil stock are also making historical profit’s. But, that’s ok for them, but not oil company actually producing it.

And another thing, you never responded to “ isn’t all crud oil dirty and hard to clean up”?

I don't think I said anything about the stock market. But, thank you for misunderstanding.

And I missed the comment about crud (did you mean crude?) oil. And some is worse than others, but I don't see your point, oil is expensive to clean and causes serious ecological damage, especially if it is spilt over an aquifer.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

I completely agree in the short term. In the long term (as in new cities, etc) then it can make a difference. Maybe. But American's LOVE their 1000 mile range SUVs getting 25mpg that they drive back and forth 15 miles to work, and are not likely to give them up.

"Maybe"...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Better battery technology is being developed right now so that in the near future solar, wind, and tide energy will make the US and much of the world....."energy independent". We just have to live long enough to see it.

Define "near future"...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Fuel prices are high because of the law of supply and demand. Supply is now low so prices are high. Supply is low for many reasons. One is the purposeful keeping of supply low AKA "price gouging" at various points along the supply chain. Saudi Arabia is purposefully NOT raising supply. And Nato and Russia/China are virtually at war and possibly beginning WW3. Wars and the threat of wars always raise the price of a barrel of oil because of future supply unpredictability. Farmers are not able to plant wheat in the Ukraine so the future price of wheat is up. All goods must be transported, so there will be price increases in everything now and for the foreseeable future.

So why were they up over a $1.00/gallon BEFORE all of that happened?

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Before the Pandemic was a completely different period than today. Today the world is severely stressed by the threat of an ongoing war - that could conceivably drive the cost of gasoline to as much as $ 10.00 per gal in the US. All financial markets and oil futures HATE the unknown!

You continue to ignore the rise in priced BEFORE the ongoing war...

I'm beginning to think you're doing it on purpose...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

Sorry, its appears you are not interested. So, we will need to agree to disagree.

I am certain I don't know what all the causes are, but I am equally certain that your saying because two things did not happen simultaneously means they did not affect each other is also wrong. Seems somewhere back there you said Oil (actually big business) hates uncertainty, and that was based on futures - so, anyway.

Have fun, try reading some about global economics, the impact of the pandemic, and how just in time economics work.

I am quite interested. That is why I continue to ask questions and challenge answers I find to be incorrect...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Topspinmo

So, you’re blaming wall-street, there the ones driving market. Oil companies sell on commodities stock exchange what ever the price is. So, all people buy/selling oil stock are also making historical profit’s. But, that’s ok for them, but not oil company actually producing it.

And another thing, you never responded to “ isn’t all crud oil dirty and hard to clean up”?

The market reacts to uncertainty by raising prices.

The $64,000 question is: What was the uncertainty that caused prices to go up?

We know about the recent uncertainty, but what was the uncertainty that caused them to go up over $1.00/gallon BEFORE the recent problem?

Methinks many know the answer but won't admit it...

[MrFlorida]

When you went to a gas station then, they checked your oil, water, air in your tires, and washed your windshield.

[Taurus510]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

The market reacts to uncertainty by raining prices.

The $64,000 question is: What was the uncertainty that caused prices to go up?

We know about the recent uncertainty, but what was the uncertainty that caused them to go up over $1.00/gallon BEFORE the recent problem?

Methinks many know the answer but won't admit it...

“ It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.”
(Possibly) Mark Twain

[MartinSE]

Rising oil prices before the Ukraine war - why did they?

https://www.forbes.com/how-much-of-the-gasoline-price-surge-is-president-bidens-fault

Following the production collapse of 2020, the U.S. has been playing catch up as demand recovered. Rising oil prices — in response to insufficient supplies — are the predominant reason for the surge in gasoline prices.

In the last three months of the Trump Administration, oil prices rose by 32% as demand bounced back. From a monthly average of $39.40/bbl in October 2020 (source), the price of West Texas Intermediate (WTI) averaged $52.00/bbl in January 2021 — Trump’s last month in office.

In the first three months of the Biden Administration, the average monthly price of WTI rose by another 19% to $61.72/bbl. In the three months after that, prices rose another 17% to $72.49/bbl. Prices then bounced between $70/bbl and $80/bbl until January 2022. More on that below.

Many people attributed the entire price rise to President Biden, but in reality it began before Biden took office. Further, it was neither primarily President Trump nor President Biden’s fault — and these price surges were taking place all over the world.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

Rising oil prices before the Ukraine war - why did they?

https://www.forbes.com/how-much-of-the-gasoline-price-surge-is-president-bidens-fault

Following the production collapse of 2020, the U.S. has been playing catch up as demand recovered. Rising oil prices — in response to insufficient supplies — are the predominant reason for the surge in gasoline prices.

In the last three months of the Trump Administration, oil prices rose by 32% as demand bounced back. From a monthly average of $39.40/bbl in October 2020 (source), the price of West Texas Intermediate (WTI) averaged $52.00/bbl in January 2021 — Trump’s last month in office.

In the first three months of the Biden Administration, the average monthly price of WTI rose by another 19% to $61.72/bbl. In the three months after that, prices rose another 17% to $72.49/bbl. Prices then bounced between $70/bbl and $80/bbl until January 2022. More on that below.

Many people attributed the entire price rise to President Biden, but in reality it began before Biden took office. Further, it was neither primarily President Trump nor President Biden’s fault — and these price surges were taking place all over the world.

The article completely ignores what happened in November of 2020 that just might have had a tiny impact on the future markets in November thru January...

Oh, and just in case you missed it...