[DeanFL]

Originally Posted by jrzeis@tampabay.rr.com

I know, lets just remove all references to our past including the good along with the bad, that way we will forget the bad and be doomed to repeat it, and be ignorant of the good and not have an example of what worked Lets just blindly remove anything offensive that way no one has anything to complain about (I'm sure everyone has something they don't' like). Why not remove all references to 9/11 because I am sure there are more than a few people that get emotionally upset remembering the past because it was very painful and they find the entire act offensive because they lost loved ones.

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IDIOTS have already begun just that>>>

Another landmark in the town of Plymouth, Massachusetts, was vandalized, making it the eighth site in less than a week to be tampered with, officials said.

This time it was the 9/11 memorial, which was found "desecrated by vandals" on Sunday, according to the town's fire department.
The memorial -- a 6-feet-tall granite pillar with the names of those killed in the attacks engraved on it and statutes of a firefighter and police officer standing beside it -- was erected in 2004.

Photos showed the police officer statue at the memorial was knocked over, with his head separated from his body. The statue of the firefighter at the memorial did not appear to be touched.

"They can knock us down, but we will always get back up even stronger," the fire department tweeted, noting that more than 25 firefighters came out to help restore the memorial.

Less than a week before it was vandalized, seven other iconic sites in Plymouth, including Plymouth Rock, were defaced.
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[tvbound]

Originally Posted by jdulej

I never understood why we put up statues to honor traitors. Maybe next we'll erect one for the crazy QAnon nut job with the horns

The majority of those monuments/statues/Etc. were erected long after 'The War of Traitors on the United States' to intimidate blacks and to push Jim Crow laws. If someone wants to worship a bunch of traitorous losers on private, NOT public, property, I have no problem with that and say - go for it. Not to mention that removing them has absolutely no affect on actual/true history, so that argument is dead from the beginning.

[G.R.I.T.S.]

Originally Posted by Bucco

Allow me to make you a sage....

30 million taxpayers money on January 6

$1B + for “protests” last summer. 🙄

[tvbound]

Originally Posted by G.R.I.T.S.

$1B + for “protests” last summer. 🙄

And TRILLIONS of lost family wealth/passed down inheritances to blacks, from the beginning of slavery - because of racism. Racism being the primary reason, that those protests happened.

Racism Has Cost Black Americans $70 Trillion Since Slavery

[DAVES]

Originally Posted by zendog3

The fathers of the Confederacy claimed to be fighting for the principle of state's rights, one of those rights being the institution of slavery. But many made it abundantly clear they considered black people inferior. Therefore, they stated clearly that the war was to preserve the institution of slavery.

Lincoln was no saint. While his position of the status of black people changed over his life, he felt that blacks should not be slaves, but it would be generations before they evolved to a position of equality with white European immigrants.

Immediately after the Civil War, blacks had relatively equal status with whites. But after the north removed the occupation of the south. Whites moved quickly to reimpose repression of black people. It was in that period that veneration of Confederate generals took place.

Put simply, do we want glorious statues to men whose main claim to fame was that they were willing to die and put others to death to preserve the right of white people to keep black people in chains? Again, think about what slavery is. If you were a black person, how would you feel walking under a heroic statue to a general who fought to keep your family in slavery?

Although overt racism is out of vogue, there are still people who think Lincoln was right. Black people aren't relatively equal to white people. If you are one of that–shame on you. America will never be the great nation we aspire to be until all Americans have equality. And, we should not have monuments to people who fought against that ideal.

REALITY-things never are or will be perfect.
Black people? REALITY you meet someone anyone it is male, female, tall short, fat, skinny, black, white, young, old, rich, poor, fit, or not. All are judgements. FAIR, what is fair? Could we get all to agree what is fair? Obviously not.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by tvbound

The majority of those monuments/statues/Etc. were erected long after 'The War of Traitors on the United States' to intimidate blacks and to push Jim Crow laws. If someone wants to worship a bunch of traitorous losers on private, NOT public, property, I have no problem with that and say - go for it. Not to mention that removing them has absolutely no affect on actual/true history, so that argument is dead from the beginning.

I sincerely feel that the monuments erected within the first decades following the Civil War should be moved to museums of history, and possibly even in art gallery expeditions. At this point, the statues themselves have histories of their own, no matter what they might represent.

I don't feel they belong in public parks. I don't think we need to (or should) forget that these statues were built, and why they were built. If they are eliminated from existence, it'd be easier to forget.

They deserve a 3-D version of a "wall of shame." To say "this is the image of the man who was a really nice guy even though he committed treason against his country to fight against it in the Civil War and this isn't actually the horse he rode in on, because his actual horse was too small so the artist made this horse bigger for perspective."

With plaques explaining what each statue is about.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by DAVES

Where we are today. National debt is now 30 Trillion dollars. I seem to be one of the only who realize I do not comprehend one trillion let alone 30 of them. We chat about billions. Hey a million here a million there get 100 million together before another 100 million and oops we have one trillion. No need to ask if an expense is worth while we are not even actually printing it. Most of the debt is just computer notes. No one is even asking you owe us half a trillion we owe you a trillion so REALITY we owe you not a trillion but half a trillion.

Let's talk about getting revenue for the Federal Government by taxing the revenue brackets and wealth of those that have gained the most by being in the US. That sounds fair to me! After that, I am sure that we will have plenty to go toward that NASTY Nation Debt that worries people so much and STILL have some leftover to give bonuses to the Medical staff in Hospitals that gave so much recently!

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by DAVES

First of all my great, great, great grandfather was a Northern General. Traitors? You might read about Robert E Lee a great man of HONOR. But, for his leadership the US would have faced years of guerilla warfare. We are INDOCTRINATED that the civil war was fought to end slavery. That the emancipation proclamation freed the slaves and we buy this INDOCTRINATION fed to us by our teacher's union. For those who can still think.
Reality is when Lincoln issue the emancipation proclamation Jefferson Davis not Lincoln was in charge of the south, In his own writings Lincoln's goal was not to free the slaves but to preserve the union. Lincolns hope was to start a slave revolt in the south.
It did not happen. Had it happened. Yes, it would have caused trouble for the south.
In the south several states 1/3 of the population was slaves-I think Mississippi was an example. It would also have resulted in the slaughter of many slaves.
Why the civil war? States rights. Clearly the issue has not been settled, even today.
Only a small percentage of people fighting for the South owned slaves and the north there were few slaves. The reason, was not morals. It was cheaper to higher an immigrant work them to death and dump em.
Hitler had his book burning. We now destroy our statues and rewrite history-reality.

True ....the issue of state's rights is NOT settled today. And IMO that is NOT a good thing.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by heims01

In the south 1/3 of the population was slaves and only a small percentage of people in the south owned slaves? Sounds a bit like modern times. 1 percent own most of the wealth. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Absolutely true!

[drducat]

Originally Posted by tvbound

The majority of those monuments/statues/Etc. were erected long after 'The War of Traitors on the United States' to intimidate blacks and to push Jim Crow laws. If someone wants to worship a bunch of traitorous losers on private, NOT public, property, I have no problem with that and say - go for it. Not to mention that removing them has absolutely no affect on actual/true history, so that argument is dead from the beginning.

Except the ideologies in the schools no longer teach true history....so the argument is not dead...erasing history is a recipe for disaster.

[drducat]

Originally Posted by heims01 View Post
In the south 1/3 of the population was slaves and only a small percentage of people in the south owned slaves? Sounds a bit like modern times. 1 percent own most of the wealth. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Absolutely true!

Now we called them employees.

[jdulej]

Originally Posted by heims01

In the south 1/3 of the population was slaves and only a small percentage of people in the south owned slaves? Sounds a bit like modern times. 1 percent own most of the wealth. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Don't think so. I'll take poor to being a slave every day of the week.

[tvbound]

Although not everyone owned slaves, the vast majority of confederate state citizens knew how important the free labor and the owning of other human beings - was to the economy. THAT is the reason they fought to keep it.

How Slavery Became the Economic Engine of the South - HISTORY

[tvbound]

Originally Posted by jdulej

Don't think so. I'll take poor to being a slave every day of the week.

"I'll take poor to being a slave every day of the week."

As if almost every single person trying to defend the traitors, don't really feel the exact same way.

[I'm Popeye!]

Originally Posted by jdulej

Don't think so. I'll take poor to being a slave every day of the week.

I guess you have no clue what poor really is...
Besides, Slaves were poor before coming into this country.