[ROCKETMAN]

The words used by the person in put in charge of villages health system. He said they need to borrow 24 million to sustain operations, which I assume to pay employees and leases on 10 buildings. By his comments the only way out of this situation is to be taken over by Humana, but I assume the bankruptcy judge would have to approve this. Still not clear on the overbilling. Does that mean Medicare was over billed but the money was never actually paid. Going back as long as it has, I would think they received some of that $350 billion.

[vintageogauge]

Originally Posted by ROCKETMAN

The words used by the person in put in charge of villages health system. He said they need to borrow 24 million to sustain operations, which I assume to pay employees and leases on 10 buildings. By his comments the only way out of this situation is to be taken over by Humana, but I assume the bankruptcy judge would have to approve this. Still not clear on the overbilling. Does that mean Medicare was over billed but the money was never actually paid. Going back as long as it has, I would think they received some of that $350 billion.

In my opinion any corporation that files bankruptcy should be made to use their personal finances to pay off as much debt as possible before stiffing their creditors, there should be no such thing as Corporate Veil, it's simply a legal way to steal from creditors most of which, in most cases, are small privately owned companies or individuals. The bankruptcy laws should be gone over and re-written to protect creditors not just debtors.

[opinionist]

Overbilling seems like a criminal operation to me.
Bankruptcy would allow them to escape civil liabilities.
Criminal liabilities are not so easy to avoid.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by vintageogauge

In my opinion any corporation that files bankruptcy should be made to use their personal finances to pay off as much debt as possible before stiffing their creditors, there should be no such thing as Corporate Veil, it's simply a legal way to steal from creditors most of which, in most cases, are small privately owned companies or individuals. The bankruptcy laws should be gone over and re-written to protect creditors not just debtors.

Since some/much/all the money received paid employees , does this mean you believe every employee should have to help pay off the debt?

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Since some/much/all the money received paid employees , does this mean you believe every employee should have to help pay off the debt?

That's ridiculous, the overpayment was not specifically tagged for the wages of employees. Think PROFIT and how that profit was spent!

[spinner1001]

Originally Posted by vintageogauge

In my opinion any corporation that files bankruptcy should be made to use their personal finances to pay off as much debt as possible before stiffing their creditors, there should be no such thing as Corporate Veil, it's simply a legal way to steal from creditors most of which, in most cases, are small privately owned companies or individuals. The bankruptcy laws should be gone over and re-written to protect creditors not just debtors.

Wants to go back to the days of debtor’s prisons for civil debts

Debtors' prison - Wikipedia

[spinner1001]

Originally Posted by Aces4

That's ridiculous, the overpayment was not specifically tagged for the wages of employees. Think PROFIT and how that profit was spent!

What did the bankruptcy filing specifically tag as paying?

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Aces4

That's ridiculous, the overpayment was not specifically tagged for the wages of employees. Think PROFIT and how that profit was spent!

The overpayment was specifically tagged? As what?

Profit is income less expenses. The overpayment went to creditors and employees first and whatever was leftover went to profit. But where did profit go? Is there a door somewhere labeled “profit” with a pile of cash behind it? No.

I think I might understand what the poster was getting at but any attempt to claw back (that’s the term these days, right?) the money out of anyone’s wallet is going to get messy.

[ROCKETMAN]

The person in charge, Neil Luria, is concerned that with 60,000 patients, didn’t know it was that big, with Oct. coming up when you can change plans, how many will stay with the villages. I doubt this will be settled by then. With Humana scheduled to take over, some people are not huge Humana fans.

[tophcfa]

Originally Posted by ROCKETMAN

The words used by the person in put in charge of villages health system. He said they need to borrow 24 million to sustain operations, which I assume to pay employees and leases on 10 buildings. By his comments the only way out of this situation is to be taken over by Humana, but I assume the bankruptcy judge would have to approve this. Still not clear on the overbilling. Does that mean Medicare was over billed but the money was never actually paid. Going back as long as it has, I would think they received some of that $350 billion.

Dam, they must have already blown through the $39 million in DIP financing approved by the bankruptcy judge just over two weeks ago? Not surprising, but also not good. TVH stated in the latest court filing that more money is needed to sustain operations, and further stated that the only way to realistically avoid a shutdown is for the court to immediately allow TVH to proceed with the proposed sale to Humana’s Centerwell. This obviously cries of a desperate and dire situation and clearly highlights the bigger picture of available Health Care Service for the future of the rapidly growing senior population in the entire area. TVH is trying everything possible to rapidly fight their way out of a hornets nest filled with financial risk, liabilities, and the associated public relations disaster. There doesn’t appear to be any way this is going to turn out positive for Homeowners who have invested a significant chunk of their retirement portfolio in the Villages, ouch!

[LuvtheVillages]

Originally Posted by ROCKETMAN

The words used by the person in put in charge of villages health system. He said they need to borrow 24 million to sustain operations, which I assume to pay employees and leases on 10 buildings. By his comments the only way out of this situation is to be taken over by Humana, but I assume the bankruptcy judge would have to approve this. Still not clear on the overbilling. Does that mean Medicare was over billed but the money was never actually paid. Going back as long as it has, I would think they received some of that $350 billion.

I expect that Villages Health received most, maybe all, of the $351 million. That also means that Medicare has stopped sending monthly payments to Villages Health, and applying the monthly funds towards the debt. So, Villages Health has almost no income. That's why they need the loan to sustain operations.

[vintageogauge]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Since some/much/all the money received paid employees , does this mean you believe every employee should have to help pay off the debt?

No what I mean is that the owners of the corporation should use their personal assets to payoff debts of their corporation.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by opinionist

Overbilling seems like a criminal operation to me.
Bankruptcy would allow them to escape civil liabilities.
Criminal liabilities are not so easy to avoid.

Overbilling is a "criminal operation"????

There have been posts that indicate a complete lack of understanding of the situation, but this one has taken over first place.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by vintageogauge

No what I mean is that the owners of the corporation should use their personal assets to payoff debts of their corporation.

Equally ridiculous. I own stock in General Motors. As a part owner, if GM goes bankrupt, I should be forced to use my retirement funds to pay off their debts??? That idea would go over like a lead balloon.

[jimhoward]

Originally Posted by vintageogauge

In my opinion any corporation that files bankruptcy should be made to use their personal finances to pay off as much debt as possible before stiffing their creditors, there should be no such thing as Corporate Veil, it's simply a legal way to steal from creditors most of which, in most cases, are small privately owned companies or individuals. The bankruptcy laws should be gone over and re-written to protect creditors not just debtors.

Who are "they"? The stockholders? For publicly traded corporations that is you and I. I assume you don't want that. So then I guess we just wont allow privately held corporations any more. Quite a few drawbacks to that.