[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by tghoul

The first occupants moved in in mid July 2020 but they started pre leasing in mid February 2020. They had roughly 20 pre leased before the July move in date. Of those 7 or 8 have already moved out.

Are these figures guesses?

[Happydaz]

Originally Posted by tghoul

The first occupants moved in in mid July 2020 but they started pre leasing in mid February 2020. They had roughly 20 pre leased before the July move in date. Of those 7 or 8 have already moved out.

Yes they have been leasing these apartments for a year now. It has been reported that the rents have been reduced recently. Current renters will get the lower rent price when their leases expire.

[tghoul]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

Are these figures guesses?

No, but the move outs may be higher, I haven't checked in a few weeks.

[Happydaz]

Originally Posted by tghoul

No, but the move outs may be higher, I haven't checked in a few weeks.

Frequent posters see rumors everywhere. They can’t recognize facts when they see them.

[kcrazorbackfan]

I can see it now - apartments get built overlooking the square where music is played every night and the occupants, knowing full well the music plays every night, starts to complain about the music; sort of like the people living next to the turnpike complaining about the turnpike noise that was there long before they moved in.

[Northwoods]

Originally Posted by Goldwingnut

Their "Katie Belles" that was losing money every month. They couldn't make money on air conditioning, ice water, and free entertainment. Like any business, they had to stop the bleeding. A good thing was lost as a result of many self-indulgent individuals who thought they had the right to occupy a business and not support it through their patronage.

It was a business that failed. Now the owners want to replace it with apartments and add additional apartments to other unused 2nd story properties, all totaled perhaps 20-25 apartments. Hardly a crowd of hundreds. Parking won't be an issue, KB needed over 180 spaces, unless the apartment dwellers each have 8 cars, things should be OK in this department.

I 100% agree with you.

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI

Have you seen the books? You don't really need to see a companies books to figure out why it failed. Usually it is poor business practices or a lack of sales. Maybe the ownership felt the business wasn't making enough profit to justify the hassle of running it. It isn't anyone else's business as to why it was closed. It is the developer's property, no one has the right to question the why of it.

Actually it was part of the advertised “lifestyle” we paid extra for. So it is our business and Katie Belles failed because the developer remodeled it trying to squeeze every nickel out of it.

[Kerry Azz]

Yes and the minions ran it into the ground.

[Goldwingnut]

Originally Posted by DaveGodin

you are the first poster I've seen who purports to know the financial status of Katie Belles. What is the source of your information? Have you seen the books?

If you've seen my videos then you must know that I do a lot of research and digging for information. Much of this is on the internet and in public records searches. Some is puzzle solving and putting the pieces together of what I find to make since of it. The most fruitful information comes from the friendships and relationships I've built since living here and the trust I've earned from many people.

These relationships yield both fruit and direction to new information. Knowing that trust in a relationship is key translates to both knowing what and when to say something, and when not to say anything, to maintain this trust.

Sometimes just being in the right place at the right time and keeping one's ears open is all it takes to find new hints and pointers. My early days of literal "dumpster diving" to find clues and information has been replaced with a less painful (and fragrant) version sitting at a keyboard.

It didn't take a genius to know that KB and HH were doomed for failure. In the few times I visited these establishments it was easy to see that it couldn't possibly be a profitable endeavor. People sitting for hours at KB drinking water or iced tea and ordering only an appetizer for a table of 4 while enjoying "free" entertainment yields little profit for a business.

Watching people bring their own snacks and drinks to the HH pool and not patronizing the bar surprised me but lead to the same conclusions about profitability.

I once posed the question to a knowledgeable individual if they had any idea how much the HH pool was used by non-priority members vs. those who paid for a Priority Membership at the country club. The non-verbal response spoke volumes, very few priority members.

Both KB and HH were private businesses, run to make a profit. They were not amenities; they were not supported by the amenity fee we all pay; they were not an entitlement just for buying a home and living in The Villages.

Have I actually seen the books? No. But the discussions of KB and HH I have had about their operations and losses always come back to just 2 words, "significant" and "unsustainable".

Do I know everything that is happening and going to happen in our community? No, but I do have a pretty good picture of a lot of what is to come, most of which I'm not a liberty to discuss at this point without destroying a lot of trusts in the process, something I will not do.

[Brwne]

Originally Posted by Goldwingnut

If you've seen my videos then you must know that I do a lot of research and digging for information. Much of this is on the internet and in public records searches. Some is puzzle solving and putting the pieces together of what I find to make since of it. The most fruitful information comes from the friendships and relationships I've built since living here and the trust I've earned from many people.

These relationships yield both fruit and direction to new information. Knowing that trust in a relationship is key translates to both knowing what and when to say something, and when not to say anything, to maintain this trust.

Sometimes just being in the right place at the right time and keeping one's ears open is all it takes to find new hints and pointers. My early days of literal "dumpster diving" to find clues and information has been replaced with a less painful (and fragrant) version sitting at a keyboard.

It didn't take a genius to know that KB and HH were doomed for failure. In the few times I visited these establishments it was easy to see that it couldn't possibly be a profitable endeavor. People sitting for hours at KB drinking water or iced tea and ordering only an appetizer for a table of 4 while enjoying "free" entertainment yields little profit for a business.

Watching people bring their own snacks and drinks to the HH pool and not patronizing the bar surprised me but lead to the same conclusions about profitability.

I once posed the question to a knowledgeable individual if they had any idea how much the HH pool was used by non-priority members vs. those who paid for a Priority Membership at the country club. The non-verbal response spoke volumes, very few priority members.

Both KB and HH were private businesses, run to make a profit. They were not amenities; they were not supported by the amenity fee we all pay; they were not an entitlement just for buying a home and living in The Villages.

Have I actually seen the books? No. But the discussions of KB and HH I have had about their operations and losses always come back to just 2 words, "significant" and "unsustainable".

Do I know everything that is happening and going to happen in our community? No, but I do have a pretty good picture of a lot of what is to come, most of which I'm not a liberty to discuss at this point without destroying a lot of trusts in the process, something I will not do.

The number one priority is to keep the Spanish Springs square open and vibrant - squares are an important component to the magic that is The Villages. That means the various commercial enterprises must have enough customers spending money to allow them to be profitable. The Developer is looking for ways to bring more spending into Spanish Springs and one of the ways to do that is to have a concentration of people actually living there. It was pointed out in a prior Forum post that the parking code requirements for apartments is less than for commercial space - less burden and more spending.

Originally Posted by Goldwingnut

If you've seen my videos then you must know that I do a lot of research and digging for information. Much of this is on the internet and in public records searches. Some is puzzle solving and putting the pieces together of what I find to make since of it. The most fruitful information comes from the friendships and relationships I've built since living here and the trust I've earned from many people.

These relationships yield both fruit and direction to new information. Knowing that trust in a relationship is key translates to both knowing what and when to say something, and when not to say anything, to maintain this trust.

Sometimes just being in the right place at the right time and keeping one's ears open is all it takes to find new hints and pointers. My early days of literal "dumpster diving" to find clues and information has been replaced with a less painful (and fragrant) version sitting at a keyboard.

It didn't take a genius to know that KB and HH were doomed for failure. In the few times I visited these establishments it was easy to see that it couldn't possibly be a profitable endeavor. People sitting for hours at KB drinking water or iced tea and ordering only an appetizer for a table of 4 while enjoying "free" entertainment yields little profit for a business.

Watching people bring their own snacks and drinks to the HH pool and not patronizing the bar surprised me but lead to the same conclusions about profitability.

I once posed the question to a knowledgeable individual if they had any idea how much the HH pool was used by non-priority members vs. those who paid for a Priority Membership at the country club. The non-verbal response spoke volumes, very few priority members.

Both KB and HH were private businesses, run to make a profit. They were not amenities; they were not supported by the amenity fee we all pay; they were not an entitlement just for buying a home and living in The Villages.

Have I actually seen the books? No. But the discussions of KB and HH I have had about their operations and losses always come back to just 2 words, "significant" and "unsustainable".

Do I know everything that is happening and going to happen in our community? No, but I do have a pretty good picture of a lot of what is to come, most of which I'm not a liberty to discuss at this point without destroying a lot of trusts in the process, something I will not do.

You have a rather fatalistic attitude regarding KB and HH. Did you ever see the TV show Restaurant Impossible where a poorly run, money losing place is turned around with good management? Good management GWN, not blaming the customer. And there are many examples of good management affecting a turnaround but maybe the kids aren’t up to it or don’t want to be.

[rustyp]

Originally Posted by Goldwingnut

If you've seen my videos then you must know that I do a lot of research and digging for information. Much of this is on the internet and in public records searches. Some is puzzle solving and putting the pieces together of what I find to make since of it. The most fruitful information comes from the friendships and relationships I've built since living here and the trust I've earned from many people.

These relationships yield both fruit and direction to new information. Knowing that trust in a relationship is key translates to both knowing what and when to say something, and when not to say anything, to maintain this trust.

Sometimes just being in the right place at the right time and keeping one's ears open is all it takes to find new hints and pointers. My early days of literal "dumpster diving" to find clues and information has been replaced with a less painful (and fragrant) version sitting at a keyboard.

It didn't take a genius to know that KB and HH were doomed for failure. In the few times I visited these establishments it was easy to see that it couldn't possibly be a profitable endeavor. People sitting for hours at KB drinking water or iced tea and ordering only an appetizer for a table of 4 while enjoying "free" entertainment yields little profit for a business.

Watching people bring their own snacks and drinks to the HH pool and not patronizing the bar surprised me but lead to the same conclusions about profitability.

I once posed the question to a knowledgeable individual if they had any idea how much the HH pool was used by non-priority members vs. those who paid for a Priority Membership at the country club. The non-verbal response spoke volumes, very few priority members.

Both KB and HH were private businesses, run to make a profit. They were not amenities; they were not supported by the amenity fee we all pay; they were not an entitlement just for buying a home and living in The Villages.

Have I actually seen the books? No. But the discussions of KB and HH I have had about their operations and losses always come back to just 2 words, "significant" and "unsustainable".

Do I know everything that is happening and going to happen in our community? No, but I do have a pretty good picture of a lot of what is to come, most of which I'm not a liberty to discuss at this point without destroying a lot of trusts in the process, something I will not do.

Two points
1 - If the Developer could not make a profit in the restaurant business in their own buildings how is it others can. Surely their overhead is higher than the Developers.
2 - I frequented HH pool many times. Every single time I was checked for resident ID which reveals if you have a priority golf and / or pool pass. There was a couple tables immediately next to the bar that non members were allowed to sit but a non member could not use the pool.

By the look of the amount of responses to your "facts" this time they maybe perhaps shaded towards the hearsay side of the story. Not to say they are wrong but a stretch to call them facts.

[bagboy]

Originally Posted by John41

You have a rather fatalistic attitude regarding KB and HH. Did you ever see the TV show Restaurant Impossible where a poorly run, money losing place is turned around with good management? Good management GWN, not blaming the customer. And there are many examples of good management affecting a turnaround but maybe the kids aren’t up to it or don’t want to be.

Restaurant Impossible has/had a 75% Failure rate...

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

The only time back then when KB did well was when it was open to non residents , then people complained that it WAS OUR KB and they turned it into residents only and decline started , I stopped In there for a drink 4 or 5 times a week when I lived over there and watched the steady decline we have all heard or seen the water and ice tea group , but no one mentioned the little nips that you would see in the men’s room trash . the reinvention of the upstairs dining room reminded me the one time I went of one of those rubber chicken dinners we have all suffered through at one time or another. The famil would have loved to keep it going it was good for there business but how much do you want to loose I don’t think anything like KB would survive without non residents , I mean a lot of people think bonefish and bluefin are very expensive

[rustyp]

FYI for those who don't know yet Lady Lake voted down 3 to 2 permission for the Developer to make the upstairs spaces in Spanish Springs Square into 45 apartments. I think I seen Harold's statue do a little dance last night.