[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by eremite06

PL: You try to get the world to eat right and we'll save lives with AEDs.

Sounds good, how many lives have you saved so far with your neighborhood AED? How many lives have been saved in all of The Villages since the program began? Is there any follow up to see what the survival rate is? I would think that could be important to detrmine the effectiveness of the program. For example, there must be some study showing a comparison between simple chest compressions and the use of AEDs.

[LianaB]

How muh does this neighborhood program cost, to those willing to contribute?

[TOTV Team]

Everyone on this thread - please be reminded that you should never direct your comments at a user but at the topic. Everyone has different opinions so direct your frustration at the topic. We don't want to 'over moderate' or close threads unnecessarily.

Thanks in advance.

[BarryRX]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

Sounds good, how many lives have you saved so far with your neighborhood AED? How many lives have been saved in all of The Villages since the program began? Is there any follow up to see what the survival rate is? I would think that could be important to determine the effectiveness of the program. For example, there must be some study showing a comparison between simple chest compressions and the use of AEDs.

Now I think you're asking the right questions. I believe that there has been some misunderstanding all along about Sudden Cardiac Arrest (SCA). SCA is an electrical problem that causes the heart to go into ventricular fibrillation. A heart attack is more of a "plumbing" issue. Sometimes, a heart attack can cause SCA. People who have heart disease are at a higher risk for SCA, but SCA often strikes people with no risk factors and who are healthy.

The only treatment that will restore a normal heart rhythm is defibrillation. Studies show that defibrillation within 3 minutes has a 70% chance of survival. For every minute after that, survival rates drop 7% to 10%. After 10 minutes, the chances for survival are just about zero. So, while I cannot give you a number for the amount of lives an AED saves, you can see that quick use of one certainly increases the chances of survival.

You also asked if CPR would do the same thing. CPR can help, but only by keeping the patient alive until defibrillation can occur. As you can deduce, it is much better to defibrillate immediately than to "tread water" and then defibrillate. CPR only buys a little time!

The American Red Cross and The American Heart Association strongly urge that all public areas, offices, schools, MD offices, shopping malls, airports, etc. have AED's and that all police and fire and rescue vehicles be equipped with them.

Some causes of SCA are congestive heart failure, aortic stenosis, cardiomyopathy, myocarditis, sarcoidosis, amyloidosis, infections, Wolff-Parkinson-White syndrome, Marfan syndrome and other structural problems, pulmonary embolism, blood clots due to surgery, prolonged immobilization like long car trips, plane trips, hospitalization, trauma, or certain diseases like cancer. Also, potassium and calcium imbalances. Also, trauma to the chest like getting hit with a golf ball or softball.

I think this answers most of your questions. The survival numbers I have given are national and I am assuming they would be similar in The Villages. I could not find any statistics just for our community. Please note that I have only given reasons for SCA in adults. There are a number of reasons why this occurs in children and teenagers, and when it does it occurs without warning and to otherwise healthy kids. I would think the program would warrant support just for the slight chance we could save the life of someones grandchild.

Lastly, I would just like to comment on what appears to be your main reason for not supporting the program. You have said that you feel the program gives people a false sense of security. Since we are dealing in "feelings", it is my feeling that not one person ever thought to him or herself that it's ok to go have a cheeseburger and fries because when I go into sudden cardiac arrest or have a heart attack, and I am close to an AED, and everything works perfectly with the alert system, there is a 70% chance that I will survive. People do not have a false sense of security because of AED's, and in fact they don't even think about them during their day to day routine.

[Mikeod]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

For example, there must be some study showing a comparison between simple chest compressions and the use of AEDs.

Erased my response. Barry's answer is more complete.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by BarryRX

Now I think you're asking the right questions. I believe that there has been some misunderstanding all along about Sudden Cardiac Arrest (SCA). SCA is an electrical problem that causes the heart to go into ventricular fibrillation. A heart attack is more of a "plumbing" issue. Sometimes, a heart attack can cause SCA. People who have heart disease are at a higher risk for SCA, but SCA often strikes people with no risk factors and who are healthy.

The only treatment that will restore a normal heart rhythm is defibrillation. Studies show that defibrillation within 3 minutes has a 70% chance of survival. For every minute after that, survival rates drop 7% to 10%. After 10 minutes, the chances for survival are just about zero. So, while I cannot give you a number for the amount of lives an AED saves, you can see that quick use of one certainly increases the chances of survival.

You also asked if CPR would do the same thing. CPR can help, but only by keeping the patient alive until defibrillation can occur. As you can deduce, it is much better to defibrillate immediately than to "tread water" and then defibrillate. CPR only buys a little time!

The American Red Cross and The American Heart Association strongly urge that all public areas, offices, schools, MD offices, shopping malls, airports, etc. have AED's and that all police and fire and rescue vehicles be equipped with them.

Some causes of SCA are congestive heart failure, aortic stenosis, cardiomyopathy, myocarditis, sarcoidosis, amyloidosis, infections, Wolff-Parkinson-White syndrome, Marfan syndrome and other structural problems, pulmonary embolism, blood clots due to surgery, prolonged immobilization like long car trips, plane trips, hospitalization, trauma, or certain diseases like cancer. Also, potassium and calcium imbalances. Also, trauma to the chest like getting hit with a golf ball or softball.

I think this answers most of your questions. The survival numbers I have given are national and I am assuming they would be similar in The Villages. I could not find any statistics just for our community. Please note that I have only given reasons for SCA in adults. There are a number of reasons why this occurs in children and teenagers, and when it does it occurs without warning and to otherwise healthy kids. I would think the program would warrant support just for the slight chance we could save the life of someones grandchild.

Lastly, I would just like to comment on what appears to be your main reason for not supporting the program. You have said that you feel the program gives people a false sense of security. Since we are dealing in "feelings", it is my feeling that not one person ever thought to him or herself that it's ok to go have a cheeseburger and fries because when I go into sudden cardiac arrest or have a heart attack, and I am close to an AED, and everything works perfectly with the alert system, there is a 70% chance that I will survive. People do not have a false sense of security because of AED's, and in fact they don't even think about them during their day to day routine.

Thank you for this very clear explanation.

[TraceyMooreRN]

Gracie- I appreciate all of your research. However, please note that just because someone collapses with no palpable pulse-does NOT mean that they should be shocked. The AED will analyze the heart rhythm and vocalize if the rhythm can be shocked into a possible normal rhythm. In other words- your heart must be in a rhythm of some sort to shock it to a possible rhythm.

If there is no rhythm- CPR and medications assist in obtaining any type of rhythm. Then the AED might come into play --but compressions must start while the AED is being hooked up for the best survival rate of the patient.

There are many reasons for a patient to collapse, CPR must be initiated first with compressions. If you are alone and witness a person collapse call for help and then start CPR. If there is more than one person available--ONE person start CPR, Second person call for help and get AED.

AEDs save lives everyday....thanks to everyone who has brought this program to our community.

[gomoho]

That wasn't Gracie's explanation - she was simply commenting on how good she thought it was. I am sure the responders in the Villages are well trained how to use the AED and what procedure should be started when.

[Mikeod]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

Sounds good, how many lives have you saved so far with your neighborhood AED? How many lives have been saved in all of The Villages since the program began? Is there any follow up to see what the survival rate is? I would think that could be important to detrmine the effectiveness of the program. For example, there must be some study showing a comparison between simple chest compressions and the use of AEDs.

Interestingly, there's a report on another website about TV that Captain Lazenby saved a parishioner at his church by using chest compressions and an AED. The man was transported to a hospital and is now recovering at home.

BTW, the article indicates the AED was provided to the church by Capt. Lazenby at his own expense.

[TraceyMooreRN]

Originally Posted by gomoho

That wasn't Gracie's explanation - she was simply commenting on how good she thought it was. I am sure the responders in the Villages are well trained how to use the AED and what procedure should be started when.

I too am happy about the program and support the program 100%-just trying to make sure everyone is educated--this forum is a great way to spread education as well.

[HMLRHT1]

CPR with AED saves lives. If the arrest is witnessed CPR should be started until someone can hookup the AED to the patient. But you must be aware when you first check the patient whether the patient has a pulse and or is breathing. You don't want to do CPR on someone who is just unconscious or had a seizure. The AED would also help with this in informing the user to do or not to do CPR. I was told about 2 years ago that the save rate here in The Villages is about 40%. The national average is about 8%. So the more AED programs we have here in The Villages along with the continued training and retraining will most likely make our save rate improve.

[pooh]

Originally Posted by LianaB

How muh does this neighborhood program cost, to those willing to contribute?

The devices can be a bit costly....over $1000 when purchased for our street, then there is a charge for the alert notification plan. Not sure what the figures are today, but when there are many contributing, costs are not too much for individual families.

When our system was fairly new and all our responders had pagers, we got an alert one day to proceed to a house on our street. Quickly all the responders who were home headed to the address with two AEDs in hand. Thirteen people were ready. One person knocked on the door and we were ready to do what needed to be done. Slowly the door opened and a very sweet older lady appeared. I think we scared her half to death..... Just as we were asking her if there was a problem, the rest of the page came through....it was a test. I'm so glad there was no problem and the responders were there with lightning speed....just felt badly that this poor woman was frightened. (We now have a different notification system)

[foodcritic]

Originally Posted by HMLRHT1

CPR with AED saves lives. If the arrest is witnessed CPR should be started until someone can hookup the AED to the patient. But you must be aware when you first check the patient whether the patient has a pulse and or is breathing. You don't want to do CPR on someone who is just unconscious or had a seizure. The AED would also help with this in informing the user to do or not to do CPR. I was told about 2 years ago that the save rate here in The Villages is about 40%. The national average is about 8%. So the more AED programs we have here in The Villages along with the continued training and retraining will most likely make our save rate improve.

Would be anxious to see the statistics supporting a save rate of 40%. If anywhere near correct, that's a great testimonial to the professional response units in the area. Also would think that statistics detailing results in areas that have community AEDs should be available. It's possible these programs are being supported with only emotion and no statistical evidence of their value.

[HMLRHT1]

Foodcritic, actually I was off on my statement. According to The Villages Public Safety/Fire Dept here is their statement. The survival rate for sudden cardiac arrest in The Villages Fl last year was 44% – about 7 times the national average of only 6%. Contributing to this high survival rate are the many Villagers taking CPR training – over 2000 last year and over 7000 in the last five years; and neighborhood CPR/AED Programs – currently 44 with 8 more in training. I'd say they are pretty damn good percentages.

[Parker]

Originally Posted by HMLRHT1

Foodcritic, actually I was off on my statement. According to The Villages Public Safety/Fire Dept here is their statement. The survival rate for sudden cardiac arrest in The Villages Fl last year was 44% – about 7 times the national average of only 6%. Contributing to this high survival rate are the many Villagers taking CPR training – over 2000 last year and over 7000 in the last five years; and neighborhood CPR/AED Programs – currently 44 with 8 more in training. I'd say they are pretty damn good percentages.

Wow! If accurate, I'd say those are newsworthy stats, so we should be seeing them on television news shows and newspaper headlines. Certainly in big lettering in The Daily Sun, wouldn't you think? I hope they are true, and wouldn't we all be just so proud of this wonderful community if they are?