[senior citizen]

Originally Posted by OldDave

When I started reading and posting on TOTV again before the holidays, I was immediately reminded of why I stopped. While 95% of the folks here and kind, funny and occassionally really entertaining, it seems you couldn't make it through any thread without: "if you don't like it, don't live here," or "don't ever say anything negative".

Shortly after that things seemed to get dramatically better especially I noticed almost no personal attacks. It was mentioned there were new administrators and they were working hard to bring civility to the site, and were tossing out truly rude people. Doing such things as stopping the politics area because peope just couldn't seem to discuss differences without becoming hateful. (Now if we could only get the actual politicians to do that.)

Well I don't know if the Christmas spirit has worn off or what, but the last few days we seem to be at it again. The Brownwood thread has been the worst, although I just saw one about the country clubs not taking reservations that was getting pretty bad.

To me this is a site that encourages the exchange of ideas. People need to be able to express their ideas, sometimes negative. We're all entitled to our concerns and opinions. And many times people are just asking if others have experienced the same issues, i.e., Brownwood. But it seems very quickly one or two people jump on them and tell them they shouldn't ever be negative and just grateful to be here. Or worse the old, "we don't want you here if there is anything you don't like, go back where you came from."

You know it in no way hurts you to have someone dislike something you like. Their opinion is just as valid as yours or mine. To borrow the same attitude, if someone posts something you don't agree with, you could just take your opinion and go home, and resist posting at all on that thread. Honestly there is nothing in TV that reallys needs to be defended. It pretty much speaks for itself, and rather well, I think.


I just don't get it. I greatly enjoy this forum. For those of us wantabes and I think for others, it is great to be able to plan and think about tomorrow, without being jumped on by others that, for reasons I just cannot understand, are so terribly defensive.

Folks take a lead from our queen of the forum, Gracie. Learn to disagree without being rude or defensive. She stands by her guns, but she does it with charm and grace. (She how I worked Grace into that.)

I want to feel welcome even if I have the need to express a concern. Let's all play nice together.

Thanks,

Dave

GREAT POST DAVE............not sure, but some folks think the poem below was written by Lucy M. Montgomery.........

The Grumble Family
There’s a family nobody likes to meet;
They live, it is said, on Complaining Street
In the city of Never-Are-Satisfied,
The River of Discontent beside.
They growl at that and they growl at this;
Whatever comes, there is something amiss;
And whether their station be high or humble,
They are all known by the name of grumble.
The weather is always too hot or cold;
Summer and winter alike they scold.
Nothing goes right with the folks you meet
Down on that gloomy Complaining Street.

They growl at the rain and they growl at the sun;
In fact, their growling is never done.
And if everything pleased them, there isn’t a doubt
They’d growl that they’d nothing to grumble about!
But the queerest thing is that not one of the same
Can be brought to acknowledge his family name;
For never a Grumbler will own that he
Is connected with it at all, you see.
The worst thing is that if anyone stays
Among them too long, he will learn their ways;
And before he dreams of the terrible jumble
He’s adopted into the family of Grumble.
And so it were wisest to keep our feet
From wandering into Complaining Street;
And never to growl, whatever we do,
Lest we be mistaken for Grumblers, too.
Let us learn to walk with a smile and song,
No matter if things do sometimes go wrong;
And then, be our station high or humble,
We’ll never belong to the family of Grumble!
By L. M. Montgomery

[senior citizen]

Originally Posted by rubicon

Old Dave: It is a sign of the adverse affect political correctness has had on our society. We have lost our ability to have meanignful discussion. I have read at least three articles by educators in the WSJ explaining that students in universities that challenge the liberal philospohy quickly learn to get back in the liberal line or face some serious consequences,or are mocked, intimidated etc.

I just read in paper this AM where Judges are stepping in to quell the lack of civility displayed by attorneys in the court room.

As a manager I was shocked to find in the 1990's that I had actually had to have a number of meetings to teach my young employees how to play nice.

This forum is a reflection of our society. Television is not hrlping with its reality shows displaying people behaving badly.

I do agree with your general assessment. However, I do miss the political forum but understand why it was closed.

Finally as I hav referenced in other threads we do have a political correct squad living here in TV land. I have always been puzzled as to why they believed it was their personal mission to defend TV and the Developer as oth entities can speak for themselves?

I opine others can decide

AMEN. Great post, as usual.

[OldDave]

I am really grateful to have so many thoughtful responses, and of course a grumpy one. There are some great posts here. And I appreciate the Admin chiming in. I'm also pleased to see people speaking up who don't seem to post much. In a similar discussion several weeks ago I got some PMs from people who said they stopped posting because of the rudeness they had encountered. And Gompers, I really liked yours, thanks.

I hope some others who are frustrated speak up. This is a good chance.

I do want to say something about the political area being dropped. I used that as an example of the Admin trying to keep control. But, I do have to say, I was never on that area, and I seemed to say it was bad, and I didn't mean to. Several of you talked about that. Of course, one of the things I have learned in life is to avoid talking about religion and politics; it is never something you can change minds about. But it would be nice if we could have civil discussion about it.

[Cantwaittoarrive]

I think it would be a boring and un-interesting to read TOTV if everyone agreed. As to someone commenting on a post for something for sale and stating they don't need the item, if I listed an item for sale I would welcome all comments as it would move my post back to the top of the thread list and make it more likely someone that needed my item would see it and buy the item

[DaleMN]

Serenity now.

[senior citizen]

Originally Posted by OldDave

I am really grateful to have so many thoughtful responses, and of course a grumpy one. There are some great posts here. And I appreciate the Admin chiming in. I'm also pleased to see people speaking up who don't seem to post much. In a similar discussion several weeks ago I got some PMs from people who said they stopped posting because of the rudeness they had encountered. And Gompers, I really liked yours, thanks.

I hope some others who are frustrated speak up. This is a good chance.

I do want to say something about the political area being dropped. I used that as an example of the Admin trying to keep control. But, I do have to say, I was never on that area, and I seemed to say it was bad, and I didn't mean to. Several of you talked about that. Of course, one of the things I have learned in life is to avoid talking about religion and politics; it is never something you can change minds about. But it would be nice if we could have civil discussion about it.

You are not a grump !!!!

I meant the grumblers who attack newbies who are trying to "feel out" the place and ask questions, however innocent.........grumbling about the people asking for information on perhaps inconsequential things to those who live there full time........but nevertheless, important to those who might choose to relocate there.

I agree with Rubicon that political correctness has gone too far.

People do have minds of their own and their frame of reference is based on where they've spent most of their adult lives.

Those coming from New England might never understand southerners, however, that doesn't mean they do not respect them and enjoy their company. Vive le difference.

Ditto........the city mouse vs. the country mouse. Everyone is different or it would be pretty boring.

I would think the good folks in TV can discern the "fake posts" vs. the truly authentic posts by those simply trying to gather information......

In the long run, everyone has to come to their own conclusions.......

I don't think you are grumpy.........I was referring more to those who do not tolerate newbies questions. I know it must get old hat asking about the humidity, etc........God only knows we've all be through the worst sub zero cold snap up here .........so the sunshine and heat actually sounds good. Why do humans always want what they don't have?

[OldDave]

Thanks Senior, very kind. But when I said one grumpy one, I didn't mean me. I meant there was one mildly grumpy post in this thread about not being grumpy. I didn't mean you either. I guess I could point out the one I meant and confront them, but then that would really defeat my whole point about being civil. And I agree with the Admin post that we should talk about the posts, not the posters.

[senior citizen]

Originally Posted by OldDave

Thanks Senior, very kind. But when I said one grumpy one, I didn't mean me. I meant there was one mildly grumpy post in this thread about not being grumpy. I didn't mean you either. I guess I could point out the one I meant and confront them, but then that would really defeat my whole point about being civil. And I agree with the Admin post that we should talk about the posts, not the posters.

O.K. I understand. I just thought it was a cute poem......for the "grumpies" who are not tolerant of newbies or wannabe's asking questions and/or thinking there is a great coverup, when it's so much easier to just say it as it is. Plain spoken always wins in my book.

[2BNTV]

I like to follow the following rules.
1. Agree to disagree respectfully.
2. I never let someone rent space in my head.
3. It doesn't cost anything to be nice.
4. I always think to myself, "how will I feel after I post this comment", before hitting the submit button.

This works for me and I tend to be relatively stress free.

BTw - My father was a very intolerate person so I don't try to emulate him. It was his way or the highway.

[OldDave]

Good rules, 2B. Your statement about your father made me think. My mother was a terrible bigot, racist, and intolerant toward just about anything and anyone who wasn't her. Maybe that's why being civil and fair-minded is so important to me. I had never thought about that.

[dbenzie]

Thought of this classic story, after reading this thread. Enjoy!!!

This is something to think about when negative people are doing their best to rain on your parade.. So remember this story the next time someone who knows nothing, and cares less, tries to make your life miserable.

A woman was at her hairdresser's getting her hair styled for a trip to Rome with her husband.. She mentioned the trip to the hairdresser, who responded:

" Rome ? Why would anyone want to go there? It's crowded and dirty. You're crazy to go to Rome . So, how are you getting there?"

"We're taking Continental," was the reply. "We got a great rate!"

"Continental?" exclaimed the hairdresser. " That's a terrible airline. Their planes are old, their flight attendants are ugly, and they're always late. So, where are you staying in Rome ?"

"We'll be at this exclusive little place over on Rome 's Tiber River called Teste."

"Don't go any further. I know that place. Everybody thinks its gonna be something special and exclusive, but it's really a dump."

"We're going to go to see the Vatican and maybe get to see the Pope."

"That's rich," laughed the hairdresser. "You and a million other people trying to see him. He'll look the size of an ant. Boy, good luck on this lousy trip of yours. You're going to need it."

A month later, the woman again came in for a hairdo. The hairdresser asked her about her trip to Rome.

"It was wonderful," explained the woman, "not only were we on time in one of Continental's brand new planes, but it was overbooked, and they bumped us up to first class. The food and wine were wonderful, and I had a handsome 28-year-old steward who waited on me hand and foot..

And the hotel was great! They'd just finished a $5 million remodeling job, and now it's a jewel, the finest hotel in the city. They, too, were overbooked, so they apologized and gave us their owner's suite at no extra charge!"

"Well," muttered the hairdresser, "that's all well and good, but I know you didn't get to see the Pope."

"Actually, we were quite lucky, because as we toured the Vatican, a Swiss Guard tapped me on the shoulder, and explained that the Pope likes to meet some of the visitors, and if I'd be so kind as to step into his private room and wait, the Pope would personally greet me.

Sure enough, five minutes later, the Pope walked through the door and shook my hand! I knelt down and he spoke a few words to me."

"Oh, really! What'd he say ?"

He said: "Who messed up your hair?"

[2BNTV]

Originally Posted by dbenzie

Thought of this classic story, after reading this thread. Enjoy!!!

This is something to think about when negative people are doing their best to rain on your parade.. So remember this story the next time someone who knows nothing, and cares less, tries to make your life miserable.

A woman was at her hairdresser's getting her hair styled for a trip to Rome with her husband.. She mentioned the trip to the hairdresser, who responded:

" Rome ? Why would anyone want to go there? It's crowded and dirty. You're crazy to go to Rome . So, how are you getting there?"

"We're taking Continental," was the reply. "We got a great rate!"

"Continental?" exclaimed the hairdresser. " That's a terrible airline. Their planes are old, their flight attendants are ugly, and they're always late. So, where are you staying in Rome ?"

"We'll be at this exclusive little place over on Rome 's Tiber River called Teste."

"Don't go any further. I know that place. Everybody thinks its gonna be something special and exclusive, but it's really a dump."

"We're going to go to see the Vatican and maybe get to see the Pope."

"That's rich," laughed the hairdresser. "You and a million other people trying to see him. He'll look the size of an ant. Boy, good luck on this lousy trip of yours. You're going to need it."

A month later, the woman again came in for a hairdo. The hairdresser asked her about her trip to Rome.

"It was wonderful," explained the woman, "not only were we on time in one of Continental's brand new planes, but it was overbooked, and they bumped us up to first class. The food and wine were wonderful, and I had a handsome 28-year-old steward who waited on me hand and foot..

And the hotel was great! They'd just finished a $5 million remodeling job, and now it's a jewel, the finest hotel in the city. They, too, were overbooked, so they apologized and gave us their owner's suite at no extra charge!"

"Well," muttered the hairdresser, "that's all well and good, but I know you didn't get to see the Pope."

"Actually, we were quite lucky, because as we toured the Vatican, a Swiss Guard tapped me on the shoulder, and explained that the Pope likes to meet some of the visitors, and if I'd be so kind as to step into his private room and wait, the Pope would personally greet me.

Sure enough, five minutes later, the Pope walked through the door and shook my hand! I knelt down and he spoke a few words to me."

"Oh, really! What'd he say ?"

He said: "Who messed up your hair?"

Thanks, I needed to laugh.

[senior citizen]

Originally Posted by dbenzie

Thought of this classic story, after reading this thread. Enjoy!!!

This is something to think about when negative people are doing their best to rain on your parade.. So remember this story the next time someone who knows nothing, and cares less, tries to make your life miserable.

A woman was at her hairdresser's getting her hair styled for a trip to Rome with her husband.. She mentioned the trip to the hairdresser, who responded:

" Rome ? Why would anyone want to go there? It's crowded and dirty. You're crazy to go to Rome . So, how are you getting there?"

"We're taking Continental," was the reply. "We got a great rate!"

"Continental?" exclaimed the hairdresser. " That's a terrible airline. Their planes are old, their flight attendants are ugly, and they're always late. So, where are you staying in Rome ?"

"We'll be at this exclusive little place over on Rome 's Tiber River called Teste."

"Don't go any further. I know that place. Everybody thinks its gonna be something special and exclusive, but it's really a dump."

"We're going to go to see the Vatican and maybe get to see the Pope."

"That's rich," laughed the hairdresser. "You and a million other people trying to see him. He'll look the size of an ant. Boy, good luck on this lousy trip of yours. You're going to need it."

A month later, the woman again came in for a hairdo. The hairdresser asked her about her trip to Rome.

"It was wonderful," explained the woman, "not only were we on time in one of Continental's brand new planes, but it was overbooked, and they bumped us up to first class. The food and wine were wonderful, and I had a handsome 28-year-old steward who waited on me hand and foot..

And the hotel was great! They'd just finished a $5 million remodeling job, and now it's a jewel, the finest hotel in the city. They, too, were overbooked, so they apologized and gave us their owner's suite at no extra charge!"

"Well," muttered the hairdresser, "that's all well and good, but I know you didn't get to see the Pope."

"Actually, we were quite lucky, because as we toured the Vatican, a Swiss Guard tapped me on the shoulder, and explained that the Pope likes to meet some of the visitors, and if I'd be so kind as to step into his private room and wait, the Pope would personally greet me.

Sure enough, five minutes later, the Pope walked through the door and shook my hand! I knelt down and he spoke a few words to me."

"Oh, really! What'd he say ?"

He said: "Who messed up your hair?"

LOVE IT. Thanks for posting. It's a gem.

[USSGompers]

Originally Posted by Cantwaittoarrive

I think it would be a boring and un-interesting to read TOTV if everyone agreed. As to someone commenting on a post for something for sale and stating they don't need the item, if I listed an item for sale I would welcome all comments as it would move my post back to the top of the thread list and make it more likely someone that needed my item would see it and buy the item

That is sooo true. I never thought of that.

Thanks so much for that comment.

[ilovetv]

Originally Posted by dbenzie

Thought of this classic story, after reading this thread. Enjoy!!!

This is something to think about when negative people are doing their best to rain on your parade.. So remember this story the next time someone who knows nothing, and cares less, tries to make your life miserable.

A woman was at her hairdresser's getting her hair styled for a trip to Rome with her husband.. She mentioned the trip to the hairdresser, who responded:

" Rome ? Why would anyone want to go there? It's crowded and dirty. You're crazy to go to Rome . So, how are you getting there?"

"We're taking Continental," was the reply. "We got a great rate!"

"Continental?" exclaimed the hairdresser. " That's a terrible airline. Their planes are old, their flight attendants are ugly, and they're always late. So, where are you staying in Rome ?"

"We'll be at this exclusive little place over on Rome 's Tiber River called Teste."

"Don't go any further. I know that place. Everybody thinks its gonna be something special and exclusive, but it's really a dump."

"We're going to go to see the Vatican and maybe get to see the Pope."

"That's rich," laughed the hairdresser. "You and a million other people trying to see him. He'll look the size of an ant. Boy, good luck on this lousy trip of yours. You're going to need it."

A month later, the woman again came in for a hairdo. The hairdresser asked her about her trip to Rome.

"It was wonderful," explained the woman, "not only were we on time in one of Continental's brand new planes, but it was overbooked, and they bumped us up to first class. The food and wine were wonderful, and I had a handsome 28-year-old steward who waited on me hand and foot..

And the hotel was great! They'd just finished a $5 million remodeling job, and now it's a jewel, the finest hotel in the city. They, too, were overbooked, so they apologized and gave us their owner's suite at no extra charge!"

"Well," muttered the hairdresser, "that's all well and good, but I know you didn't get to see the Pope."

"Actually, we were quite lucky, because as we toured the Vatican, a Swiss Guard tapped me on the shoulder, and explained that the Pope likes to meet some of the visitors, and if I'd be so kind as to step into his private room and wait, the Pope would personally greet me.

Sure enough, five minutes later, the Pope walked through the door and shook my hand! I knelt down and he spoke a few words to me."

"Oh, really! What'd he say ?"

He said: "Who messed up your hair?"

LOL.......THAT made my day!!!!!!!!!