[Challenger]

Controlling overeaching "place savers" probably takes different strategies in various situations. This is a problem everywhere that we have lived. In some cases parade routes are claimed 24 or more hrs in advance. At the Master's Tournament fans place chairs at greens hours in advance and no one touches the seat. No complaints there from other attendees. Obviously different traditions prevail in many areas.

IMO and from previous clashes over these issues I have found when the controlling authority adopts a reasonable rule , posts it in prominent places, and provides a modicum of enforcement, the problem is significantly reduced.
We all know that "the jerks" will be there always, but most will willingly cooperate.

[Bryan]

Walt and Challenger both have good ideas - ideas that would actually work......EXCEPT their ideas "assume" (we all know what happens when you 'assume') that the powers-that-be actually have the cojones to post signs and then police up unattended items reserving seats. I have never seen any demonstration of that level of intestinal fortitude from the Entertainment Department, Special Events staff, nor Community Watch. Therefore there are only three chances that these great ideas will be implemented by anyone in authority - FAT, SLIM, and NONE!

[graciegirl]

Don't be pickin' on the Morses, Bryan. I doubt that they are gonna get heavy handed about this because it isn't "FRIENDLY". They would be forced to be MORE rude and uncaring than the people who aren't thinking of others and just where would that get you?? I think they have enough sense to stay out of a p***ing contest. There isn't much of a way to enforce the rule, how would YOU do it if you were in charge?

How would you word the sign?

What would the consequences be?

I can't think of a civil ordinance that has been breached, so the sheriff's office would be unable to have any teeth.

How would you really handle it if you were The developer? It isn't quite as easy to enforce as a deed restriction. Would you penalize all of the people who show up to sit down? Would you penalize just the original sweater placer or ribbon hanger? Would you barr them from the squares? Would you remove their rights to dance? I can't think of a penalty.

[redwitch]

Gracie, no one -- not the Morses, not the entertainment department, not Community Watch -- would need to do more than post signs that seat saving would no longer be allowed and items left on seats would be removed. There doesn't have to be penalties. The seats being available to those who are there and sitting in them would be enough and having to go through a pile of junk to find their personal junk should be enough. Remember, they were willing to reserve table for a price with no free table seating (until the screaming got too loud) for New Year's Eve. Of course, that might be the solution -- charge to save the tables (not the chairs in the Squares, just the tables).

It is not just an issue at the parade events. Look how many seats are reserved early in the day when Rocky and the Rollers are performing. It's ridiculous. I once counted 78 chairs being reserved for them, all before noon.

I also believe no one should be allowed to save more than 4 seats for themselves and others. If someone doesn't show up when the parade/show starts, those saved seats should be up for grabs. No saving for latecomers. It really isn't fair to others.

[AnonChick]

I don't think it needs to be turned into a rule. It's not a rule anywhere else really, it's more a matter of courtesy vs. selfishness, and the consequences of natural order.

Basically - they put up a sign reminding everyone that the management will not be held responsible for the seats, or anything left on the seats, if those seats are abandoned by their "reservers."

And then, the people who want to actually SIT in them - do so.

And then, the reservers return, find "their" seats are occupied, and they can't do diddly about it and have to suck it up and find somewhere else to sit.

Because the management has already warned them that they reserve seats at their own risk, there's nothing more to do about it.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by redwitch

Gracie, no one -- not the Morses, not the entertainment department, not Community Watch -- would need to do more than post signs that seat saving would no longer be allowed and items left on seats would be removed. There doesn't have to be penalties. The seats being available to those who are there and sitting in them would be enough and having to go through a pile of junk to find their personal junk should be enough. Remember, they were willing to reserve table for a price with no free table seating (until the screaming got too loud) for New Year's Eve. Of course, that might be the solution -- charge to save the tables (not the chairs in the Squares, just the tables).

It is not just an issue at the parade events. Look how many seats are reserved early in the day when Rocky and the Rollers are performing. It's ridiculous. I once counted 78 chairs being reserved for them, all before noon.

I also believe no one should be allowed to save more than 4 seats for themselves and others. If someone doesn't show up when the parade/show starts, those saved seats should be up for grabs. No saving for latecomers. It really isn't fair to others.

As you can see I feel quarrelsome today.

You have made excellent points Red, and I can see where this could work. However it would require more paid manpower to remove objects from chairs and to oversee their return, all day, both squares.

And someone will tell me that the developers are as rich as Croesus and it won't make a dent.

But in any business money is a consideration and the bottom line. Someone would have to be there all day, and be available to give back the sweater or whatever. It would be a royal pain in the neck. But you may well have the correct answer.

[dillywho]

It would be interesting if some of the seat-savers would weigh in on this, wouldn't it? So far, I haven't seen any comments by any of them.

On another note, if we choose to sit in a "saved, reserved, whatever the verbage seat", what can the saver to about it other than yell? If someone gets physical, could charges not be filed against them? I would think so.

When we went to SS on Oktoberfest, some guy put some chairs in front of the front row that someone had established. Needless to say, when told by those he got in front of that he couldn't do that, he told them "that until someone with the authority to do so tells me I can't, then I'm sitting here"....and he did. (BTW, you could look across the "aisle" and his chairs were actually in line.)

[redwitch]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

However it would require more paid manpower to remove objects from chairs and to oversee their return, all day, both squares.

Let TV put the signs up. I'm sure those who want to sit will be happy to move the stuff to a "lost and found" pile. If owners lose stuff because someone picks through the pile for goodies, their loss. No extra manpower needed. (You're in a quarrelsome mood, I'm very non-sympathetic today.)

[graciegirl]

Do you think it is THAT time of the month?

Oh...right..ain't happnin'.

Just pure cussed meanness on my part.

Sorry.

[vj1213]

Well, in my own little humble opinion, roping off the chairs could easily be solved, by whoever is in charge of setting out the seats and later the people who patrol the area, simply remove the ropes during the day. (I was at the square last year during the Christmas setup and people were standing with the ropes as the chairs were being set up) I don't have a problem if you bring your own chairs and leave them all day...no one will bother them.
The tables, well as far as people setting stuff on them, they are doing so with the assumption that they will still be there...do they not think that unattended items can and do get stolen everyday...so in my opinion, toss it in a box and let them dig for it, no one has to be there to give back the items they left them there unattended in the first place.

[graciegirl]

You know, the more I think about it, the better I like it.

It probably wouldn't take long to get the point across.

[Ajack]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Do you think it is THAT time of the month?

Oh...right..ain't happnin'.

Just pure cussed meanness on my part.

Sorry.

We pay our bills the 1st every month, too. Kinda makes me a little edgy.

[Challenger]

The simple act of posting signs regarding the issues would serve to encourage compliance from those who follow most rules in their lives. It would also "empower" folks to use the selfishly reserved seats and would put abusers on notice that their efforts to "sequester" the prime seating would probably not work. I don't think more draconian measures will be needed once the issue is broached. In any case it is worth a try. As we have discused, there are different norms for these problems in various venues and we need to establish the pattern here.

[taylor111947]

Can I offer one more suggestion?

Before a big event, print up a certain number of 'Reserved Seat' tickets or stickers (say at $5/ticket) to be offered for sale. Allow 4 tickets/person. Tickets can be placed in seats or on chairs starting at a certain time prior to the event. Then there would be no need for policing. Proceeds from the tickets could go to charity.

I too, find it odd that of all the responses I don't think any have been in favor of the way things are done today. Is there any way of enacting a change based upon a vote of some kind?

[Ajack]

Originally Posted by taylor111947

Can I offer one more suggestion?

Before a big event, print up a certain number of 'Reserved Seat' tickets or stickers (say at $5/ticket) to be offered for sale. Allow 4 tickets/person. Tickets can be placed in seats or on chairs starting at a certain time prior to the event. Then there would be no need for policing. Proceeds from the tickets could go to charity.

I too, find it odd that of all the responses I don't think any have been in favor of the way things are done today. Is there any way of enacting a change based upon a vote of some kind?

Charging for "saving seats" sounds like a great idea.Something tells me that most seat savers are not big spenders. LOL