[marianne237]

Village Watch told us the folks who lived there had only lived there about 3-4 weeks.

http://www.thevillagesdailysun.com/a...ews/news01.txt

[faithfulfrank]

As to the question about "why a total loss" when response times are so good, I'd like to comment.

I'm a professional firefighter, (19 years).

I am NOT familiar with the specific construction of the Villages housing, but I can tell you that most homes built today are NOT built to sustain any degree of fire. The code states that you should have 5/8" firecode drywall between the house and the garage, and also in the ceiling of the garage. If fire breaks through that, perhaps by way of a attic pull down stairway, etc, and you get fire in an attic, it is over.

Truss construction roofs cannot sustain any heat. The gussets are made of steel plates that are just pressed in. They fail in a fire. We have a saying in the fire service...."Don't trust the truss". In an older home, we go up on the roof, cut a vent hole to allow hot gasses and heat to escape, thus allowing us to find and put out the seat of the fire quickly. With truss construction, if the fire has been going more then 20 minutes or so, forget it.

Before truss construction, you had rafters made of thicker wood. There were more mass to them. They could even be a bit charred and still work. You had less glues, etc that would burn. A modern house, (with a basement) now has trusses for floor joists, roof joists, etc. making them dangerous in a fire. Many homes today sadly are just built to be disposable. That is one reason when I built my home 10 years ago, I have 2x10x28 ft rafters....no trusses.

The current big fight in the housing industry is the requirement of residential sprinklers. The national homebuilders association has fought this for years, but it recently passed. The new, modern residential sprinklers made for homes are nice, not ugly, and do not add much to the cost of a home. They do not leak, they do not accidentally go off, and they only go off in the part of a room where there is fire. They basically put out the fire before it amounts to anything.....before any fire truck gets there.

Frankly, I am surprised the new homes in The Villages do not have this.....at least as an option. It is a new requirement, but perhaps it is not totally in effect in Florida...I do not know, but if I lived there or were building a new house there, I'd be looking into it.

I almost installed it in the home I designed and built here 10 years ago, but the pex tubing it uses back then cost over $1.00 per foot.....now it is less then 20 cents a foot. The cost of residential sprinkler systems would only add 1 or 2 % to the cost of the home, and would lower your homeowners insurance. If I were building today, I would have it.

Please understand I am NOT in any way criticizing ANY homes in The Villages......I am just explaining current normal building standards in America.

Sorry for the long post. Frank D.

[Larryandlinda]

Originally Posted by F16 1UB

Fire occurred in 2300 block of Baldwin Run according to this mornings paper. Total loss. Person moved in early Dec. Tragic!

Sad, and like the one in Va Trace last week, another wake up call. We are sure that others like us would be very grateful for some tips and help with preparedness for such disasters, but even more for tips on prevention.

We would appreciate a workshop, seminar, town meeting, or even an updated pamphlet targeted to our 'Home Town' dealing with fire prevention.

Perhaps the local fire department and our own retired (and current) professionals and volunteers could help.

Further, just like any electrical project needs to meet code and have permits and inspections performed, we suggest the same for seasonal home decoration 'projects'

Because we did not see anything in today's online edition of the Sun, if anyone can forward us a link to the story, we'd appreciate that.

We're snowbound in Md.

L&L

Originally Posted by Larryandlinda

Sad, and like the one in Va Trace last week, another wake up call. We are sure that others like us would be very grateful for some tips and help with preparedness for such disasters, but even more for tips on prevention.

We would appreciate a workshop, seminar, town meeting, or even an updated pamphlet targeted to our 'Home Town' dealing with fire prevention.

Perhaps the local fire department and our own retired (and current) professionals and volunteers could help.

Further, just like any electrical project needs to meet code and have permits and inspections performed, we suggest the same for seasonal home decoration 'projects'

Because we did not see anything in today's online edition of the Sun, if anyone can forward us a link to the story, we'd appreciate that.

We're snowbound in Md.

L&L

http://www.thevillagesdailysun.com/a...ews/news01.txt

[dillywho]

Originally Posted by faithfulfrank

As to the question about "why a total loss" when response times are so good, I'd like to comment.

I'm a professional firefighter, (19 years).

I am NOT familiar with the specific construction of the Villages housing, but I can tell you that most homes built today are NOT built to sustain any degree of fire. The code states that you should have 5/8" firecode drywall between the house and the garage, and also in the ceiling of the garage. If fire breaks through that, perhaps by way of a attic pull down stairway, etc, and you get fire in an attic, it is over.

Truss construction roofs cannot sustain any heat. The gussets are made of steel plates that are just pressed in. They fail in a fire. We have a saying in the fire service...."Don't trust the truss". In an older home, we go up on the roof, cut a vent hole to allow hot gasses and heat to escape, thus allowing us to find and put out the seat of the fire quickly. With truss construction, if the fire has been going more then 20 minutes or so, forget it.

Before truss construction, you had rafters made of thicker wood. There were more mass to them. They could even be a bit charred and still work. You had less glues, etc that would burn. A modern house, (with a basement) now has trusses for floor joists, roof joists, etc. making them dangerous in a fire. Many homes today sadly are just built to be disposable. That is one reason when I built my home 10 years ago, I have 2x10x28 ft rafters....no trusses.

The current big fight in the housing industry is the requirement of residential sprinklers. The national homebuilders association has fought this for years, but it recently passed. The new, modern residential sprinklers made for homes are nice, not ugly, and do not add much to the cost of a home. They do not leak, they do not accidentally go off, and they only go off in the part of a room where there is fire. They basically put out the fire before it amounts to anything.....before any fire truck gets there.

Frankly, I am surprised the new homes in The Villages do not have this.....at least as an option. It is a new requirement, but perhaps it is not totally in effect in Florida...I do not know, but if I lived there or were building a new house there, I'd be looking into it.

I almost installed it in the home I designed and built here 10 years ago, but the pex tubing it uses back then cost over $1.00 per foot.....now it is less then 20 cents a foot. The cost of residential sprinkler systems would only add 1 or 2 % to the cost of the home, and would lower your homeowners insurance. If I were building today, I would have it.

Please understand I am NOT in any way criticizing ANY homes in The Villages......I am just explaining current normal building standards in America.

Sorry for the long post. Frank D.

What an excellent, informative post. Is adding the sprinkler system an option for existing homes or totally cost prohibitive?

[faithfulfrank]

I'm by no means an expert, but I would guess that the cost of installing it in an existing structure would be more expensive.
Oddly, I was supposed to attend a two hour training lecture on this subject last week, but had to miss it. I will try to get better info from my co-workers and report back.....sorry.

Frank D.

[gary42651]

I`m not an expert on sprinkler systems, but I am a plumber, most homes in the villages have attics and I don`t think it would be that hard to install a sprinkler system using pex pipe. Where I see a problem is with ``snowbirds`` , when they leave for extended periods of time, they shut off the domestic water system. My question is can the fire sprinkler system be connected to the lawn sprinkler system at the meter box.

[faithfulfrank]

Gary,
I'm more used to "northern" building, where you need to have the pex under the insulation. Each sprinkler head is fed by up to 5 lines of pex, making a "web system", insuring correct flows, etc.

You need to have it not be effected by softener systems, etc.
Up here anyway, once you take the two hour class (a tradesman, like a plumber), you can then submit a house plan to the manufacturer and they design the system for you, walk you through the install, etc. Then they certify the job and you to be a certified installer.

If the National code sticks for new housing, I see it as a good niche business for those with a plumbing /building backround. If the new house has pex for the house water, it could be included in the total bid.

If one does not mind working in a tight Florida attic with scissors trusses, etc, it could be installed in an existing structure. I'll have to find out about the possibility of having it come off the main meter.....we do not have lawn systems up here, so that will be a unique question give the guys.

My apologies if this is off topic to the original poster's question about the house fire.

Frank

[graciegirl]

Very interesting and very well presented.

But I would worry with our being gone so much that the system would go on sometime and wet the house and drywall and ruin it.

I too apologize for hijacking the thread which is rightfully sad thoughts for the home owners.

[zcaveman]

Originally Posted by gary42651

I`m not an expert on sprinkler systems, but I am a plumber, most homes in the villages have attics and I don`t think it would be that hard to install a sprinkler system using pex pipe. Where I see a problem is with ``snowbirds`` , when they leave for extended periods of time, they shut off the domestic water system. My question is can the fire sprinkler system be connected to the lawn sprinkler system at the meter box.

Not sure that would be a good idea for those that use reclaimed water in their sprinkler system. You might save the house but from what I understand the reclaimed water does not have a pleasant smell and might cause additional odor damage. Just my thoughts.

Z

[faithfulfrank]

Originally Posted by zcaveman

Not sure that would be a good idea for those that use reclaimed water in their sprinkler system. You might save the house but from what I understand the reclaimed water does not have a pleasant smell and might cause additional odor damage. Just my thoughts.

Z

Ahhh.....I did not know your lawn sprinkler water was reclaimed. Sadly, mine in The Plantation is drinking water...I have the city of Leesburg water bills to prove it.

Gracie, that does not happen. It seems to be an unfounded fear from some against sprinkler systems....but the new systems are quite good, and accidental activations are unheard of. The heads themselves are flush with the ceiling, they do not hang down, and are not an eyesore. If it were to be a problem, insurance companies would not give a discount on them. If they were known to fail, they would cost insurance companies more...not less.

I am not "pushing" them...I have no gain in anyone having a residential sprinkler system.......(other then putting me out of a job as house fires would be less severe) Just trying to share some info. If I were building a new house, I would have it.

Frank D.

[gary42651]

Your right `Z` some of the reclaim water does come from the sewer plant. Most people shut off their water at the main valve in the house, not at the meter, so if you connect the fire sprinkler line in the meter pit you will by-pass the main shut off valve in the house, leaving your house protected while you are away. I`m not sure if it ever gets below freezing in the attics in Florida, but the nice thing about Pex pipe is that it won`t burst when frozen.

[animal lover]

Help - I guess I don't understand why the circuit breakers aren't doing their job and just tripping if there are overloads on the electrical? Why would a fire start?

As info -I did have a home inspection before my 1 year warranty was up on the house and the home inspector said we had the golf cart plugged into the wrong plug in garage. We have an Amarillo ranch and he said to plug the cart into the outlet on right garage wall because it has a dedicated circuit breaker.

[Larryandlinda]

Originally Posted by zcaveman

Not sure that would be a good idea for those that use reclaimed water in their sprinkler system. You might save the house but from what I understand the reclaimed water does not have a pleasant smell and might cause additional odor damage. Just my thoughts.

Z

If you have a fire hot enough and widespread enough to set off the sprinkler, no matter where the water comes from, you're not going to come home to, nor wake up to, a home that smells like fresh flowers.

Even if you use Fiji water, you will be facing odors you might not like in the least - soaked carpet. glue, along with the smoldered and charred things that set it off will be quite offensive, not even thinking of the soaked and broken down drywall.

We would be very interested in sprinkler retrofits and would appreciate any results of what any of us finds out.

We especially appreciate the feedback from the plumbers and firefighters
Thanks for sharing and your service.
Those are often thankless (but not 'tankless') jobs

L&L