[gfmucci]

Many of us have been made aware of several facts that have converged to create some concern about the safety of some homes with gas lines installed in the attic. These facts include the following:

- The rapid destruction of the home that burned down due to a lightning strike
- Gas lines installed in the attic
- The materials (CSST) of the gas lines in the attic
- The nationwide incidence of perferation of these materials via lightning strikes
- The recognition of this part of Florida being the lightning bulls-eye of the western hemisphere.

I have a call in to Mike Farrington (referred by Kim in the Ocala Offie) of TECO. Mike is over all the TECO service techs in this area. His number is 352-401-3417. My questions to him will include:

1) Is there any significant difference in level of safety of gas lines installed in the attic compared to ground mounted gas lines in a lightining prone area.

2) What modifications have been made to the gas connections in the attic over the years in The Villages to increase their safety.

3) How can I be sure that my attic gas line installation reflects that latest improvements and safety measures?

4) Are there any measures that can or should be taken by the homeowner to improve the safety of this system, given our lightning-prone environment?

Any other good questions you can think of to ask are invited.

Here are two enlightening (no pun intended) articles about the attic mounted gas line materials (corregated stainless steel tubing (CSST)) particularly subject to rupture by lightning strikes: http://www.wthr.com/global/story.asp...Type=Printable and http://hawkeyehomeinspects.com/docum...ST-DANGERS.pdf

It appears that this type of material is used in new homes with attic gas line installations in TV. The question is: Is proper grounding sufficient to prevent perforations from electrical discharge from lightning? Or is replacement with black iron pipe or a lightning diversion system safer alternatives?

My admittedly unscientific conclusion after reading the above articles is this:

Grounded or not, CSST serves as an effective lightning-attracting ground - like having a lightning rod in your attic. With the older, thick-walled "black iron" pipe used for gas transmission, a lightning strike does not perforate its thick wall, and the mega volts are conducted harmlessly into the ground. In the case of CSST, a lightning strike will perforate its thin wall as it is conducted disasterously into the ground.

Comments and critiques from you electricians, electro-mechanical engineers, physicists and other logical types out there?
__________________

[Note to admin: I repeated this excerpt of a previous post due to the importance of this issue. I hope you agree.]

[jojo]

Not an electrician, physicist or any of the above, but I do share your concern. I had the Villages Warranty out this week (Our home is less than a year old). I asked her about how to turn off the gas line and learned indeed that ours too was in the attic. We had a frightening view from our lanai of the home that burned - before we knew it was a home my husband said it looked like a gas line exploded. Hope that we get some answers to your questions.

[Peggy D]

It never occured tome that gas lines would be up in the attic.

I'm surprised it is legal, given that Flordia is so prone to lightning strikes.

Learn something new everyday here on TOTV.

Looks like it's an all electric house for us when we move there!!

[Frangyomory]

I don't know that they build all electric Peggy. This was the first I heard of the gas in the attic issue and I have lived here three years this month. Scares the crap out of me to say it mildly. I also plan to look into this and see what corrective action we need to do. Right now though, I am trying to get over my $202 shocking amenity/water/utility/trash bill for this month!!!!! I am in a complete state of shock over the amount since they combined them all and now will have to pull out last months bills and see what they were individually!!!! Holy cow!!!!!

[graciegirl]

Hadley is an all electric village and so will be all the rest. I don't think your bill seems high especially when you have more than half be the amenities payment.

[billethkid]

Last year there was a class action suit, I believe, against the manufacturer of the piping used in many homes. If you have gas, are in FL, it is almost a certainty the lines are in the attic.
The suit was that "some" lines did not sustain lightning hits as intended. They did offer to pay for the appropriate lightning arrester system as long as one provided the build/close date and proof(picture) of the piping in question.

I think offer expired last September. Either the defect(?) was corrected in subsequent construction....or there may be a liability remaining. If I was in FL I have the announcement on my desk top....only have my laptop with me while away.

I am sure either the TECO or the plumbing contractor for your home can provide additional insight.

WHile the area we live in may be the so called lightning capital of the US, the more important number is how many of the meteorological strikes ever hit a home?

There have been gas lines in attics in FL ever since.......well a long time. But the subject should be investigated to ones own comfort. Statistically the odds are substantially in your favor. Yes, I know, not comforting to the one that gets hit.

BTK

[barb1191]

Originally Posted by gfmucci

Any other good questions you can think of to ask are invited.

Was wondering how one can tell where their gas lines run, roof or ground? If one has vaulted ceilings throughout, is it fair to assume that the gas lines are NOT run overhead?

Vaulted ceilings = no attics.

barb

[bimmertl]

BTK hit the nail on the head. The odds of your home being hit by lightning are slim. The odds of a fire from lightning are even higher.

Talk to some lifetime Florida residents and ask how many of their homes were struck by lightning, let alone hit by it.

Here's some data on residential fires. Lightning not even mentioned as a significant cause. Smoking primary cause of fire related deaths. Cooking primary cause of residential fires. Adults over 65 an at risk group for residential fires and 40% of the fires alcohol related.

So stop smoking, quit drinking and eat out all the time and you'll decrease the odds of a house fire more than wasting your money on lighting rods. You can use the $3,000 for the increased restaurant expense or use some of it to get the special locks for your golf carts so they won't get stolen! ;D

PS Somebody alleges Glade plug ins start fires, so be careful with those also!

http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/factsheets/fire.htm

[travelstiles]

So stop smoking, quit drinking and eat out all the time and you'll decrease the odds of a house fire more than wasting your money on lighting rods. You can use the $3,000 for the increased restaurant expense or use some of it to get the special locks for your golf carts so they won't get stolen

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I'd rather be hit by lightning than stop eating out and having a few drinks.

IMHO, that is....

[Sidney Lanier]

gfmucci: Thanks for your valuable information! We aren't in our home in TV right now and are probably not hearing everything that we would like to know about this issue. It took the one lightning strike in Poinciana and the house burning to the ground for all of us to be more than aware of it; we're downright concerned. But as pointed out by BTK and bimmertl, we don't have to panic. When anyone has more info about this, please post it, especially for those of us who aren't there at the moment. Thanks!

[Ooper]

bille ... There was a class action against the company that makes the flexible gasline tubing but it wasn't to pay for an appropriate system. We went thru the steps and supplied the pictures, etc., and come to find out, they were only going to pay a small portion of the cost of a lightning rod system. And the amounts varied depending on the type and style of the house, what it was made of (block or stick), how many square feet, etc. Our settlement only amounted to a couple hundred dollars.

[gfmucci]

Originally Posted by travel

So stop smoking, quit drinking and eat out all the time and you'll decrease the odds of a house fire more than wasting your money on lighting rods. You can use the $3,000 for the increased restaurant expense or use some of it to get the special locks for your golf carts so they won't get stolen

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I'd rather be hit by lightning than stop eating out and having a few drinks.*

IMHO, that is....

Well, this unexpected additional risk of "lightning-strikes-thin-walled-gas-piping al la 'lightning rod' in-the-attic-burning-down-house-in-five-minutes" is not something we moved to TV for.* We evacuated Destin three times in 2005 for hurricanes, wondering if our house was still standing as we were on our way back home.* I don't want to wonder if our house is still standing after one of our more-frequent-than-hurricanes thunder storms when we're on our way back home from lunch at Toojays.

I'm certainly glad our situation isn't an "either/or": eating out a few times a week or getting lightning rods.* By the way, I already don't smoke, don't drink and we eat out all the time, so nothing really has to change ;D.

Talk to some lifetime Florida residents and ask how many of their homes were struck by lightning, let alone hit by it.

I've lived in Florida for 50 years (south and north).* No part of Florida has more lightning strikes than central.* I've seen the results of several homes struck by lightning.* I doubt they had thin-walled gas lines in their attic (a recent labor-saving material.)* The combination of frequency of lightning hits here and thin gas lines in the attic is more than I want to gamble on.

[gfmucci]

Originally Posted by barb1191

Was wondering how one can tell where their gas lines run, roof or ground? If one has vaulted ceilings throughout, is it fair to assume that the gas lines are NOT run overhead?

Vaulted ceilings = no attics.

We have vaulted ceilings and gas lines in the attic. They are over our garage. There is still 3 to 5 feet between your vaulted ceiling and the roof of your house. If you access your attic from the garage (depending on model of your home) you may see the gas lines if you have gas. The piping is covered in yellow vinyl, but you can see the CSST near the fittings.

[starflyte1]

If a person bought a gas/electric house and wanted all electric, could you just cap the line before it enters the house?

[SteveFromNY]

Not to minimize the risk of gas lines in the attic at all, but keep in mind the area where they actually run.
In my house the gas enters at the main, rises into the attic and goes 3 places. About 4 ft over, then down to the water heater, another couple of feet to the furnace, the dryer, then another couple of feet to the stove. These appliances are pretty close to one another. Perhaps a 20' run straight across the garage.
Unless you have a gas grill in a summer kitchen, there is a fairly small area with gas above it. The lines are not running through the entire house, but are minimized. The builders want the material costs to be as low as possible.
None of this means lightning won't hit the short run of gas lines where they are, and certainly the house in Sunset Ridge was hit above the garage, so it was this vulnerable spot.
Just keep in mind there aren't gas lines crossing all parts of the attic say the way our electric does.