[jmaccallum]

In recent conversation with a science geek PhD friend of mine who is retiring and moving to the Villages, I asked him what kind of golf cart he wanted to get. Gas or electric? Electric of course, he replied. Why? I asked.

Well, think about it he said, in the near future there will be a Honda CRV in the Smithsonian, and they will tell people looking at it, “This is what they used to get around in back in the day, and it spit toxic fumes out the back as it went.” Every time you drive your car, or gas golf cart, it spits poison out the back. If you run it in your garage without opening the door, it will kill you. And a billion of us have been doing that for years. Where did we all think all those fumes and gases were going? Our little blue dot is a bubble, man, it ain’t ventilated.

Wow. Thinking about it as we headed to the square for a cold one, I’m glad my carts electric.

[Bilyclub]

Originally Posted by jmaccallum

In recent conversation with a science geek PhD friend of mine who is retiring and moving to the Villages, I asked him what kind of golf cart he wanted to get. Gas or electric? Electric of course, he replied. Why? I asked.

Well, think about it he said, in the near future there will be a Honda CRV in the Smithsonian, and they will tell people looking at it, “This is what they used to get around in back in the day, and it spit toxic fumes out the back as it went.” Every time you drive your car, or gas golf cart, it spits poison out the back. If you run it in your garage without opening the door, it will kill you. And a billion of us have been doing that for years. Where did we all think all those fumes and gases were going? Our little blue dot is a bubble, man, it ain’t ventilated.

Wow. Thinking about it as we headed to the square for a cold one, I’m glad my carts electric.

Does he know our garbage is burned to provide electricity?

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by jmaccallum

In recent conversation with a science geek PhD friend of mine who is retiring and moving to the Villages, I asked him what kind of golf cart he wanted to get. Gas or electric? Electric of course, he replied. Why? I asked.

Well, think about it he said, in the near future there will be a Honda CRV in the Smithsonian, and they will tell people looking at it, “This is what they used to get around in back in the day, and it spit toxic fumes out the back as it went.” Every time you drive your car, or gas golf cart, it spits poison out the back. If you run it in your garage without opening the door, it will kill you. And a billion of us have been doing that for years. Where did we all think all those fumes and gases were going? Our little blue dot is a bubble, man, it ain’t ventilated.

Wow. Thinking about it as we headed to the square for a cold one, I’m glad my carts electric.

What does he mean by the "near future"? In the last quarter, electric vehicles accounted for only 4.5 percent of vehicle sales in the US. So, 95.5 percent of the new vehicles rolling out of dealerships are gas vehicles. Almost all of those new vehicles will still be on the road 20 years from now unless they are banned. Don't you think it is way too premature to be predicting that they will be in the Smithsonian in the near future? Think about it.

[BigSteph]

You have a decent point. I don't think you can discount all the internal combustion engine pollution from the first one to the present.

However, think about where electricity comes from;

Coal -- no need to explain after seeing the flat topped mountains of WV, or the black lung of middle-aged deep-ground miners.

Nuclear -- look what happens when something goes wrong -- 3 Mile Island, Fukushima, Chernobyl, etc. Even when all goes well, there is material that must transported out west and kept for many lifetimes in caves. Heaven forbid if sometimes causes those containers to leach.

Wind -- another good choice, but it is dependent on nature. Also requires maintenance as well as impacts on birds and the hum of the turbine on humans.

Trash -- yeah, I am told my trash goes to producing energy via turbine revolution. Still hurts to throw away cardboard and aluminum cans.

Solar -- this is a good local option, but the energy must be stored and that is an ecological mess with batteries. Solar also has high $ cost of entry that take nearly the entire life-cycle of the panel to break even. Solar take resources to produce the panel and store the energy.

Shortages already being experienced for renewables.

Sand for panels and chips
Access Denied

Cobalt and Lithium for battery storage
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...m-ion-battery/

There is nothing great about energy creation, no matter the method.

I have a gas cart and a battery lawnmower. I feel neither has a superiority over the other -- just a different dirty means to produce the same thrust.

Originally Posted by jmaccallum

In recent conversation with a science geek PhD friend of mine who is retiring and moving to the Villages, I asked him what kind of golf cart he wanted to get. Gas or electric? Electric of course, he replied. Why? I asked.

Well, think about it he said, in the near future there will be a Honda CRV in the Smithsonian, and they will tell people looking at it, “This is what they used to get around in back in the day, and it spit toxic fumes out the back as it went.” Every time you drive your car, or gas golf cart, it spits poison out the back. If you run it in your garage without opening the door, it will kill you. And a billion of us have been doing that for years. Where did we all think all those fumes and gases were going? Our little blue dot is a bubble, man, it ain’t ventilated.

Wow. Thinking about it as we headed to the square for a cold one, I’m glad my carts electric.

[dtennent]

While I believe electric vehicles will play a big part of transportation going forward, you should realize that catalytic converters have been on gasoline cars since 1974. The catalytic system converts carbon monoxide to carbon dioxide and NOX to nitrogen. So there are no toxic fumes coming from automobiles. Obviously, if a car is left running in a closed space, it will consume oxygen and drive up the carbon dioxide levels which will eventually cause you problems The gas powered golf cart is a different story as they have no catalytic converters - well, at least not yet.

[Papa_lecki]

I’ll take conversations that didn’t happen for $100.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...ronmentalists/

“The most vocal opponents have trained their sights on Thacker Pass, a proposed lithium mine in Humboldt County, Nev. Environmental and Indigenous groups sued over the Bureau of Land Management's permit for the project last year, saying the mine could damage sacred sites and harm the climate, wildlife and groundwater.

Outside the courtroom, Max Wilbert, a leader of a group called Deep Green Resistance, has camped in the desert for months to protest the project's environmental impact. “The proposed Thacker Pass mine would destroy or degrade dozens of square miles of habitat and emit the carbon emissions equivalent to a small city,” Wilbert wrote in an opinion piece in the Reno Gazette-Journal last month.”

Are the mines, strip mining for the metals in batteries using solar powered equipment or equipment run on fossil fuels?

[jmaccallum]

Originally Posted by dtennent

While I believe electric vehicles will play a big part of transportation going forward, you should realize that catalytic converters have been on gasoline cars since 1974. The catalytic system converts carbon monoxide to carbon dioxide and NOX to nitrogen. So there are no toxic fumes coming from automobiles. Obviously, if a car is left running in a closed space, it will consume oxygen and drive up the carbon dioxide levels which will eventually cause you problems The gas powered golf cart is a different story as they have no catalytic converters - well, at least not yet.

He said, yes, but it’s trading one evil for another. Autocatalysts leach clusters Pt, Pd, Rh. Contamination of the atmosphere, soil and surface water by heavy metals. Everyone knows but nobody wants to talk about it. As far as gas golf carts go, Meh.

[davem4616]

I plan to switch over the same month Air Force One goes electric and the presidential motorcade is all electric

[jmaccallum]

Originally Posted by Bilyclub

Does he know our garbage is burned to provide electricity?

Yes, and it’s not good. Dioxins, Mercury, NOX, SO2, CO2. Shelve it like the gas cars and gas golf carts. Time to take our heads out of the sand.

[jmaccallum]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

What does he mean by the "near future"? In the last quarter, electric vehicles accounted for only 4.5 percent of vehicle sales in the US. So, 95.5 percent of the new vehicles rolling out of dealerships are gas vehicles. Almost all of those new vehicles will still be on the road 20 years from now unless they are banned. Don't you think it is way too premature to be predicting that they will be in the Smithsonian in the near future? Think about it.

The numbers will go up exponentially as consumers realize the differential in cost of thrust from electric versus gas. Of course “near” future is subjective and therefore open to discussion. And as the integration to electric occurs, the significant cost differential may wane depending upon methods and generation capability’s. However, at that time I feel it will be a moot point.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by jmaccallum

Yes, and it’s not good. Dioxins, Mercury, NOX, SO2, CO2. Shelve it like the gas cars and gas golf carts. Time to take our heads out of the sand.

I disagree. People with common sense do not have their heads in the sand. A science geek PhD probably receives his income from the taxpayers. He doesn't need to live in the real world. Economic prosperity has created a better and healthier living environment for billions of people way more than any environmentalist ever will. We need to balance the economic impact of replacing gas vehicles with electric. We are decades away from making a transition to electric in a way that will not bankrupt the country.

[jmaccallum]

Originally Posted by BigSteph

You have a decent point. I don't think you can discount all the internal combustion engine pollution from the first one to the present.

However, think about where electricity comes from;

Coal -- no need to explain after seeing the flat topped mountains of WV, or the black lung of middle-aged deep-ground miners.

Nuclear -- look what happens when something goes wrong -- 3 Mile Island, Fukushima, Chernobyl, etc. Even when all goes well, there is material that must transported out west and kept for many lifetimes in caves. Heaven forbid if sometimes causes those containers to leach.

Wind -- another good choice, but it is dependent on nature. Also requires maintenance as well as impacts on birds and the hum of the turbine on humans.

Trash -- yeah, I am told my trash goes to producing energy via turbine revolution. Still hurts to throw away cardboard and aluminum cans.

Solar -- this is a good local option, but the energy must be stored and that is an ecological mess with batteries. Solar also has high $ cost of entry that take nearly the entire life-cycle of the panel to break even. Solar take resources to produce the panel and store the energy.

Shortages already being experienced for renewables.

Sand for panels and chips
Access Denied

Cobalt and Lithium for battery storage
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...m-ion-battery/

There is nothing great about energy creation, no matter the method.

I have a gas cart and a battery lawnmower. I feel neither has a superiority over the other -- just a different dirty means to produce the same thrust.

Yes, all of these are issues. However, the bottom line is it takes an electric vehicle less than half the cost of a gas vehicle to accomplish the same thing (for a golf cart it is a third of gas). That being the case, even with all the negatives you point out, only half of the energy would need be produced. Big step in the right direction, while work is continuing on the details.

[camaguey48]

Originally Posted by davem4616

I plan to switch over the same month Air Force One goes electric and the presidential motorcade is all electric

Right. I can't wait to get on those electric 767's for a transatlantic flight. But....should I be worried?

[Papa_lecki]

Originally Posted by camaguey48

Right. I can't wait to get on those electric 767's for a transatlantic flight. But....should I be worried?

That would only be for us commoners - Al Gore and Bono still get to fly on their private jets.

[jmaccallum]

Originally Posted by davem4616

I plan to switch over the same month Air Force One goes electric and the presidential motorcade is all electric

Then you will be really late, and waste a lot of money. Ha! Never follow the government and never base your savings plan as a tax refund.