[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by BigSteph

You have a decent point. I don't think you can discount all the internal combustion engine pollution from the first one to the present.

However, think about where electricity comes from;

Coal -- no need to explain after seeing the flat topped mountains of WV, or the black lung of middle-aged deep-ground miners.

Nuclear -- look what happens when something goes wrong -- 3 Mile Island, Fukushima, Chernobyl, etc. Even when all goes well, there is material that must transported out west and kept for many lifetimes in caves. Heaven forbid if sometimes causes those containers to leach.

Wind -- another good choice, but it is dependent on nature. Also requires maintenance as well as impacts on birds and the hum of the turbine on humans.

Trash -- yeah, I am told my trash goes to producing energy via turbine revolution. Still hurts to throw away cardboard and aluminum cans.

Solar -- this is a good local option, but the energy must be stored and that is an ecological mess with batteries. Solar also has high $ cost of entry that take nearly the entire life-cycle of the panel to break even. Solar take resources to produce the panel and store the energy.

Shortages already being experienced for renewables.

Sand for panels and chips
Access Denied

Cobalt and Lithium for battery storage
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...m-ion-battery/

There is nothing great about energy creation, no matter the method.

I have a gas cart and a battery lawnmower. I feel neither has a superiority over the other -- just a different dirty means to produce the same thrust.

Hydroelectric works great when enough water to drive turbine’s which will be big problem is desert states. So, with rolling blackout in summer now let’s add thousands of electric vehicle charging on top of that grid… I do agree electric or hydrogen alternate choice but, lots of problems to solve before they will be the majority.

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by Papa_lecki

I’ll take conversations that didn’t happen for $100.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...ronmentalists/

“The most vocal opponents have trained their sights on Thacker Pass, a proposed lithium mine in Humboldt County, Nev. Environmental and Indigenous groups sued over the Bureau of Land Management's permit for the project last year, saying the mine could damage sacred sites and harm the climate, wildlife and groundwater.

Outside the courtroom, Max Wilbert, a leader of a group called Deep Green Resistance, has camped in the desert for months to protest the project's environmental impact. “The proposed Thacker Pass mine would destroy or degrade dozens of square miles of habitat and emit the carbon emissions equivalent to a small city,” Wilbert wrote in an opinion piece in the Reno Gazette-Journal last month.”

Are the mines, strip mining for the metals in batteries using solar powered equipment or equipment run on fossil fuels?

All mining done with fossil fuels, o you say those big dump truck are electric….but very big Diesel engine turns the Hugh generator to make electricity. I use to work in strip mining. Ever kilowatt was generated by Diesel engines.

[Jhnidy]

Originally Posted by dtennent

While I believe electric vehicles will play a big part of transportation going forward, you should realize that catalytic converters have been on gasoline cars since 1974. The catalytic system converts carbon monoxide to carbon dioxide and NOX to nitrogen. So there are no toxic fumes coming from automobiles. Obviously, if a car is left running in a closed space, it will consume oxygen and drive up the carbon dioxide levels which will eventually cause you problems The gas powered golf cart is a different story as they have no catalytic converters - well, at least not yet.

The catalytic converter does not eliminate NOx and HC emissions. It reduces them to legal limits.

[shelley77]

Originally Posted by BigSteph

You have a decent point. I don't think you can discount all the internal combustion engine pollution from the first one to the present.

However, think about where electricity comes from;

Coal -- no need to explain after seeing the flat topped mountains of WV, or the black lung of middle-aged deep-ground miners.

Nuclear -- look what happens when something goes wrong -- 3 Mile Island, Fukushima, Chernobyl, etc. Even when all goes well, there is material that must transported out west and kept for many lifetimes in caves. Heaven forbid if sometimes causes those containers to leach.

Wind -- another good choice, but it is dependent on nature. Also requires maintenance as well as impacts on birds and the hum of the turbine on humans.

Trash -- yeah, I am told my trash goes to producing energy via turbine revolution. Still hurts to throw away cardboard and aluminum cans.

Solar -- this is a good local option, but the energy must be stored and that is an ecological mess with batteries. Solar also has high $ cost of entry that take nearly the entire life-cycle of the panel to break even. Solar take resources to produce the panel and store the energy.

Shortages already being experienced for renewables.

Sand for panels and chips
Access Denied

Cobalt and Lithium for battery storage
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...m-ion-battery/

There is nothing great about energy creation, no matter the method.

I have a gas cart and a battery lawnmower. I feel neither has a superiority over the other -- just a different dirty means to produce the same thrust.

Nothing great about energy production - except the fact that it allows us to live productive healthy lives. This yearning to go back to the preindustrial age when life was short, violent and brutish has always mystified me. But I guess the air was cleaner.

[Susan1717]

I had debated between the two also, but The Villages is so spread out, how far and long can you go on a charge with an electric golf cart? I also believe I’ve heard of dangers leaving them plugged in too long? I remember a few stories of electric fires? And then you have the destruction from batteries to our land fills. I agree with what someone earlier said that any form of energy has its pollution to the environment in some way. I guess it’s all a personal choice. I chose a gas cart. It seemed way easier and reliable for me.

[phansen2246]

Originally Posted by Bilyclub

Does he know our garbage is burned to provide electricity?

He doesn't realize that electricity for his cart in being made by pollution in someone else's backyard!

[B-flat]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

I disagree. People with common sense do not have their heads in the sand. A science geek PhD probably receives his income from the taxpayers. He doesn't need to live in the real world. Economic prosperity has created a better and healthier living environment for billions of people way more than any environmentalist ever will. We need to balance the economic impact of replacing gas vehicles with electric. We are decades away from making a transition to electric in a way that will not bankrupt the country.

[B-flat]

Originally Posted by shelley77

Nothing great about energy production - except the fact that it allows us to live productive healthy lives. This yearning to go back to the preindustrial age when life was short, violent and brutish has always mystified me. But I guess the air was cleaner.

Good points!

[Kgcetm]

Wow.

[OhioBuckeye]

Yea & I bet Al Gore & the billions he took from the tax payers to stop global warming I bet he’s really enjoying his electric jets & all of his electric cars, huh!

[OhioBuckeye]

Lots of good Pro’s & Con’s but I’ll stay with my gas cart for a while yet. I learned to much in my 38 yrs. at the auto company I worked at. So all I can say is, drive what you want!

[Ashley from UK]

Originally Posted by camaguey48

Right. I can't wait to get on those electric 767's for a transatlantic flight. But....should I be worried?

You don't have to wait.... just get a rowing boat

[midiwiz]

Originally Posted by jmaccallum

In recent conversation with a science geek PhD friend of mine who is retiring and moving to the Villages, I asked him what kind of golf cart he wanted to get. Gas or electric? Electric of course, he replied. Why? I asked.

Well, think about it he said, in the near future there will be a Honda CRV in the Smithsonian, and they will tell people looking at it, “This is what they used to get around in back in the day, and it spit toxic fumes out the back as it went.” Every time you drive your car, or gas golf cart, it spits poison out the back. If you run it in your garage without opening the door, it will kill you. And a billion of us have been doing that for years. Where did we all think all those fumes and gases were going? Our little blue dot is a bubble, man, it ain’t ventilated.

Wow. Thinking about it as we headed to the square for a cold one, I’m glad my carts electric.

generalist and absurd take on it. we have the cleanest air in the world, so he needs this question to answer since in my experience PhDs are full of more pollution than a golf cart - How many golf carts does it take, running how long, to equal the pollution China has?

[Bay Kid]

What about all the burning from land clearing?

[Tom52]

Originally Posted by jmaccallum

In recent conversation with a science geek PhD friend of mine who is retiring and moving to the Villages, I asked him what kind of golf cart he wanted to get. Gas or electric? Electric of course, he replied. Why? I asked.

Well, think about it he said, in the near future there will be a Honda CRV in the Smithsonian, and they will tell people looking at it, “This is what they used to get around in back in the day, and it spit toxic fumes out the back as it went.” Every time you drive your car, or gas golf cart, it spits poison out the back. If you run it in your garage without opening the door, it will kill you. And a billion of us have been doing that for years. Where did we all think all those fumes and gases were going? Our little blue dot is a bubble, man, it ain’t ventilated.

Wow. Thinking about it as we headed to the square for a cold one, I’m glad my carts electric.

Hardly, a different perspective. Have seen the argument against ICE engines literally hundreds of times. More like trying to put a spin on an issue for an excuse to stir the pot yet again.