[villages07]

Puter,

I have no issues with companies making profits....but who are 'they' in this case?

It seems as though it is an internal Villages operation that supports amenities and should run at a cost basis...i.e. monies collected should support operating costs.

This (tee time system) is another fuzzy area of what is an internal resident supported and funded function versus an external developer/business function. I honestly don't know what the answer is.

The developer/entertainment dept can charge whatever they want to for drinks at the libation stations in the town squares and make a nice profit...good for them. That is understood to be a separate commercial enterprise.

Don't get me wrong....I agree that the tee time system is great and should be supported by those who use it but at a fair and reasonable cost. $100/year to use tee time system but $140/year for trail fees? Seems out of balance.

[smalldog]

SMALLDOG SEZ ............. true to most things in The Villages, let us see how much more we can get the cattle ( us frogs) to pay, after all you are living the millionair's life style aren't you ?? ............ if there is one thing that detracts from every day life here it is the constant nickle dimeing of it all ........... so it is argued they upgraded didn't they ?? ....... and as alway us you must pay for convience
What the hey, you've got it and they want it

[nitehawk]

Thank You -- EdVinMass --very well explained -- just what we need - new blood -- not only in TV - but in this forum - great credentials -- love to hear from someone who really knows -- I for one feel if I do not like the product or it is too much money I will not buy it. So maybe in June 2009 I will now longer have village.net. Some of us will complain and still pay -- good move you really showed them.

[Russ_Boston]

Nitehawk - He may have the best credentials in the world of networking but he (no offense) doesn't know the inside details of the cost of this product. And neither do we. That is why i think V7 has a point about it being a fuzzy area. Of course if you think it is too high of a price then just don't use it. No business is immune from consumer pressure. There are other ways to get tee times albeit not as robust or conveinent.

[EdV]

Nighthawk, thanks for the supportive words. I defiantly don’t have “the best credentials in the world of networking”, but I was very fortunate over the years to have studied under and learned from a few who really did. And Russ, I don’t know the actual cost of either system, but I never said I did. In fact, it was you who estimated the cost at 100K or less for the new system. All I did was challenge the notion that the fee for use of the new system was justified because it was so much more costly to operate than the old system.

The real question that should be answered is whether or not the Developer has the right to charge individuals for specific services that are an integral part of the Amenities, rather than making them part of the Monthly Amenities Fee that everyone shares.

Last week I uploaded a transposed copy of the Declaration of Restrictions for the Lake Sumter district which I had converted into a searchable PDF. Tony has posted that document in the Nuts and Bolts forum for reference purposes when discussing covenants and restrictions here in TOTV.

Section 4.1 – C of that contractual document states that:

“Each Owner agrees that as additional facilities are requested by the Owner, and the erection of such additional facilities is agreed to by the Developer, that upon a Vote of ½ of the Owners approving such additional facilities and commensurate charges therefore, the monthly Contractual Amenities Fee provided for herein shall be increased accordingly.”

Now the question is, what is the definition of a facility. Dictionary.com defines it as:

a. Something designed, built, installed, etc., to serve a specific function affording a convenience or service.
b. Something that permits the easier performance of an action, course of conduct, etc.

Now if that doesn’t describe the new on-line reservation system, I don’t know what does. I’m not a lawyer but I think that a reasonable argument could be made for the idea that charging a separate fee for the use of this new facility is a breach of the contract that the developer signed with each Villager.

But I also think that Villages07 is on the right track in suggesting that addressing this issue would be a good task for the soon to be, owner elected AAC representatives.

The main thing that is currently holding me back from becoming a “gonnabee” Villager is this issue of the Developer having the ability to charge whatever and whenever without some adequate form of checks and balances. So I will be very interested in following their progress.

[Russ_Boston]

Good points Ed.

You're right, I also have no idea of the cost. I would think that it is a tweaked version of a standard reservation system but who knows perhaps it is outrageously expensive.

[ldj1938]

When I worked in the golf division I was told that the reservation software is homegrown and they have had visitors from all over the world interested in how the system works. They said that there was no other system that could handle the number of golfers we have in the villages. The system has worked pretty well in the eight+ years I've been here. I'm not too excited about the cost, but I know they have employees and software and hardware to support. I will probably find the $8 a month to stay on the system.

[nitehawk]

Ed - Thanks for you imput - you have my vote if you ever run for something - I like the way you think

[aln]

Originally Posted by smalldog

SMALLDOG SEZ ............. true to most things in The Villages, let us see how much more we can get the cattle ( us frogs) to pay, after all you are living the millionair's life style aren't you ?? ............ if there is one thing that detracts from every day life here it is the constant nickle dimeing of it all ........... so it is argued they upgraded didn't they ?? ....... and as alway us you must pay for convience
What the hey, you've got it and they want it

I don't think the man/family/friends/employees that put the place together and maintain it are out to 'nickel n dime' us. YES they're here to make a profit and 50 cents per year increase is acceptable in my mind.

[Russ_Boston]

50 cents?

[aln]

Yup, last rate increase was 2003....50 cents PER YEAR.

[Golf-Tinker]

For Comcast subscribers, it's a bit more than a $ 0.50 increase. But I think the flexibility it gives us to make tee-time requests and see what's available is worth it.

[dinch]

My wife and I will be arriving on Nov 17 for a month. We are renting privately and staying in Sabal Chase. Question is this: My wife doesn't play golf but we both hope to enjoy the rest of the facilities at TV. I'll be wanting to play golf every morning at a number of the closest courses - Cane, Mallory Hills and Havana.
Will I be able to "just show up" and be put into a group?

My 89 year old dad is coming for a week at the end of November to stay with us. We'll be wanting to play the Executive courses while visiting. When a time is booked at the Exec courses, are 18 holes played or just 9? Will we both require Resident ID's, or just me? Can he use a "guest card?"

I've really been enjoying this forum for the past month or so. Thanks to everyone who contributes.

David

[earickis]

I having been using the phone tee time reservation system for almost four years. I've never had any difficulty getting tee times and once you use the system a couple of times it's quite easy. You don't have to wait until each menu item is finished to select your options, you can select them at any time during the message. I've never used the on-line system so I have no way to compare the two.

[gratton]

Its seems to me that we were paying 5 bucks a month for the past 5 years, now that there are more people using the system the rate should go down and not 60 percent higher, I bet if they had to prove the increase they couldn't do it, Its not that its not worth it but the nickel and dime-ing is what aggravates me. Thers no way that they had a 60 percent increase no way.