[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by NotGolfer

Stealing the placard was a horrible thing to do. As for people judging whether anyone truly is "handicapped" or not needs to think again. I have one and have it because I have a 'invisible' disease. To look at me, I look fine BUT I have issues with walking due to rheumatoid arthritis and a bad back. The RA has affected my feet/ankles and hips. Walk in the shoes of someone first, then judge. I don't think doctors will sign the sheet needed unless they too think it's needed.

Thank you, my point from the beginning

[red tail]

in the words of my favorite pres candidate....this thread is 'stupid'......no physician is going to sign a handicap app unless its is necessary or warranted....so these folks so worried should probably worry about the dog poop and coyotes.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by red tail

in the words of my favorite pres candidate....this thread is 'stupid'......no physician is going to sign a handicap app unless its is necessary or warranted....so these folks so worried should probably worry about the dog poop and coyotes.

Which is why a casual observer should not hold themselves out as having the expertise to make clinical judgments. Then someone wants to steal it, acting as judge, jury and executioner----INSANE. Maybe they learned how to spot a disability "on the internet" , like so many think they can.

[Average Guy]

I think that part of the skepticism that people have over the use of handicap parking is not the concern that some physician has inappropriately diagnosed a patient, but rather that the handicap parking is being used by someone other than the handicapped individual.

For instance, a car with a handicap license plate is driven to a parking lot by the spouse/child/friend of the handicapped person and is parked in a handicap parking space. The actual handicapped person is not even in the car, or remains in the car while an able-bodied person goes to shop. This abuse of the system is hard to police.

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by Average Guy

I think that part of the skepticism that people have over the use of handicap parking is not the concern that some physician has inappropriately diagnosed a patient, but rather that the handicap parking is being used by someone other than the handicapped individual.

For instance, a car with a handicap license plate is driven to a parking lot by the spouse/child/friend of the handicapped person and is parked in a handicap parking space. The actual handicapped person is not even in the car, or remains in the car while an able-bodied person goes to shop. This abuse of the system is hard to police.

But since it's pretty much agreed that you can't tell a handicap just by looking, you have no way of knowing if that's even happening. And how would you even know that a person in the car is holding the spot for a non handicapped person to go shopping?

Do some people look for ways to get irritated or feel cheated?

[Average Guy]

Originally Posted by CFrance

But since it's pretty much agreed that you can't tell a handicap just by looking, you have no way of knowing if that's even happening. And how would you even know that a person in the car is holding the spot for a non handicapped person to go shopping?

Do some people look for ways to get irritated or feel cheated?

I am sorry if my post irritated you. That was certainly not my intent. I never stated that I was irritated or felt cheated. I did state that I felt that was why some people felt skeptical. I am no position to know who is or is not handicapped.

Years ago, I was on a business trip and a group went out to dinner. One of the people had driven there, so she drove us to the restaurant. When we got to the restaurant she pulled into a handicap parking space. Her car had a handicap license plate because her husband, who was not in the vehicle at the time, was confined to a wheelchair. When this happened, it did not make me feel cheated, it made me upset that someone who was handicapped may have not been able to park in a handicap space because of her action.

Again, my apologies for upsetting you or anyone else who read my previous post.

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by Average Guy

I am sorry if my post irritated you. That was certainly not my intent. I never stated that I was irritated or felt cheated. I did state that I felt that was why some people felt skeptical. I am no position to know who is or is not handicapped.

Years ago, I was on a business trip and a group went out to dinner. One of the people had driven there, so she drove us to the restaurant. When we got to the restaurant she pulled into a handicap parking space. Her car had a handicap license plate because her husband, who was not in the vehicle at the time, was confined to a wheelchair. When this happened, it did not make me feel cheated, it made me upset that someone who was handicapped may have not been able to park in a handicap space because of her action.

Again, my apologies for upsetting you or anyone else who read my previous post.

You didn't upset me. I meant people in general, not you necessarily. Your personal experience gives you a reason to be upset. I'm sure there are people who take advantage, but who is to know which ones they are. That was the point I was trying to make.

I have an acquaintance who I swear looks for all life's injustices to be irritated about. I just want to tell her to try to ignore as much as she can.

[KeepingItReal]

Originally Posted by red tail

......no physician is going to sign a handicap app unless its is necessary or warranted....so these folks so worried should probably worry about the dog poop and coyotes.

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Which is why a casual observer should not hold themselves out as having the expertise to make clinical judgments. Then someone wants to steal it, acting as judge, jury and executioner----INSANE. Maybe they learned how to spot a disability "on the internet" , like so many think they can.

Not impressed with how many have been signed by anyone, it doesn't mean a thing. All those thousands and thousand of fraudulent prescriptions that have been and continue to be written for addictive pain drugs were signed by someone too. I can go to my doctor tomorrow and have a handicapped placard by the end of the day if I wanted. People do know how to spot a fraud and there are plenty to spot whether it be a disability fraud, food stamp fraud, accident victim fraud, slip and fall fraud, a fraudulent doctor, welfare fraud, tax fraud, or a handicap fraud.

If you're not a fraud then you are entitled to a handicapped placard and there is absolutely nothing to worry or be upset about.

[outlaw]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Thank you, my point from the beginning

I think my point was made. Earlier you said you would not give me a HC placard because my feet hurt when I walk. Now someone says they're feet hurt when they walk, and you imply you would have given them a placard. I have some arthritis in my back. Sometimes it hurts when I walk, or play golf. Do you think I could get a placard?

[outlaw]

Originally Posted by red tail

in the words of my favorite pres candidate....this thread is 'stupid'......no physician is going to sign a handicap app unless its is necessary or warranted....so these folks so worried should probably worry about the dog poop and coyotes.

Riiight. And no physician is going to defraud medicare, or perform unnecessary surgeries, or sexually assault a patient....

[Bonny]

I think this thread is taking a big turn for the worse !!

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by outlaw

I think my point was made. Earlier you said you would not give me a HC placard because my feet hurt when I walk. Now someone says they're feet hurt when they walk, and you imply you would have given them a placard. I have some arthritis in my back. Sometimes it hurts when I walk, or play golf. Do you think I could get a placard?

Maybe I was confusing. I've never signed one for "my feet hurt" in the usual sense such as "I've been on my feet all day or I stand on a hard floor". Patients who have undergone surgery, have severe chronic arthritic conditions, or have significant peripheral polyneuropathy are a different case
The NY standard remains "the inability to walk 200 feet without stopping" Usually the underlying condition gives a good indication as to whether the patient qualifies. (When diagnosed by a professional, not a casual observer with "life experience"). Sorry, I must have climbed back on "my pedestal" there--- I forgot that 35 years of education, training, experience, board certification, and qualification as an expert witness by the court in every disability proceeding that I have ever testified at "means nothing", and the casual observer is every bit equally qualified to make these clinical determinations as I am (sorry, couldn't resist, still a little perturbed by last night's post)

[outlaw]

Originally Posted by CFrance

But since it's pretty much agreed that you can't tell a handicap just by looking, you have no way of knowing if that's even happening. And how would you even know that a person in the car is holding the spot for a non handicapped person to go shopping?

Do some people look for ways to get irritated or feel cheated?

Technically, I guess one cannot tell the difference between a man and a woman until a medical exam. And one cannot tell if a person is fat by just looking at them. They could just be big boned.
Today, I watched a guy with full mobility, not shuffling, not old, walk spiritedly to his HC placarded car, hop in with no sign of pain or slowness, and back out turning his head fully as he backed up, then drive off. At the same place, I also watched a very old lady get out of her HC placarded car veeerrry slowly, drop her cane, while grasping the seat with one hand sloooowly bent over and picked up her cane, then finally steadied herself to close her car door, and proceeded slowly to the store. Now how many other people like that old lady had to park another 50 or 100 feet away because of that guy, who clearly did not need to park where he parked, took up that space?

[Bonny]

I am amazed at how many on this thread remark about all of these people they see in the handicap spots. Do people stand or sit there and watch these people park, get out of their car and walk all the way in the store or where ever ?
I can't remember if I ever saw someone parking in the handicap spot, let alone watch them get out of their car and monitor the way they walk in a store.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by outlaw

Technically, I guess one cannot tell the difference between a man and a woman until a medical exam. And one cannot tell if a person is fat by just looking at them. They could just be big boned.
Today, I watched a guy with full mobility, not shuffling, not old, walk spiritedly to his HC placarded car, hop in with no sign of pain or slowness, and back out turning his head fully as he backed up, then drive off. At the same place, I also watched a very old lady get out of her HC placarded car veeerrry slowly, drop her cane, while grasping the seat with one hand sloooowly bent over and picked up her cane, then finally steadied herself to close her car door, and proceeded slowly to the store. Now how many other people like that old lady had to park another 50 or 100 feet away because of that guy, who clearly did not need to park where he parked, took up that space?

No question that this does happen, my 90 year old mother would drop her cane just about every time she got out of the car in a regular parking spot while the handicapped placard sat in the glove compartment. I've seen 20 year olds park in designated spots and jog into the store. And yes, even in deference to my new friend from last night, some are so obvious that no special training is needed to spot them. These rarely are the drivers that obtained the permit, it is usually someone else using the vehicle. Their behavior is totally inconsiderate of others and reflects the "me first" attitude I've alluded to.
Maybe I still have left over anesthesia in my system, but it appears I failed to effectively communicate my position yesterday, at least to one other TOTV poster.
So, if when at first you don't succeed.....
The parking criteria, in NY, are such that there will be patients that clearly qualify whom may not be the least bit evident to a casual observer. They may not be evident to a medical professional who watches from a distance, and therefore may not be evident to someone with extensive "life experience". They may have a pulmonary, respiratory or neurologic condition that only manifests itself after 100-200 feet of sustained effort, and thus be completely invisible when walking short distances. In many cases, you just can't tell. I tried to explain, in my HUMBLE experience, that the frauds who directly seek such a permit from their doctors are quite few and far between.
I'm sure there are providers who just willy-nilly sign a handicap permit, just as they indiscriminately hand out narcotic prescriptions. They are also, in my HUMBLE experience, few and far between.
My intention was to point out, in essence, that you can't judge a handicap book by its cover, but I may have gone overboard in my zeal, or frustration in responding to a particular poster. For this I apologize to him and everyone who may have read the whole thread. I have often posted on the dangers of sitting anonymously behind a keyboard and not counting to ten before responding. I feel I contributed to the deterioration of an important discussion on a subject that helps the weaker among us get out and about. I'm even OK with the personal attack launched back at me, but I do take exception to the attack on my profession as a whole, but I leave that to the conscience of he who shall not be named