[billethkid]

[ijusluvit]

Originally Posted by Boomer

Hey! I’ve got an idea! How about everybody who wants to give an opinion in this thread also tells the readers where their own health insurance comes from. That could be interesting.

I’ll start.

Mr. Boomer and I each have access to recognized group plans through our former employers. A part of it is paid by those employers, but our share grows and grows with each annual renewal. We are not to Medicare yet. We do not like the constant increases as we pay more for less coverage. We pay those costs. But there are those who have worked just as hard as we have, through all these boomer-years, only to now find themselves being hit harder and harder to the point of having their retirement dreams held hostage by what they have to pay for coverage – if they can find it at all.

Do I hear some of you scratching your heads and asking, “Hey! Boomer! What’s your problem? Sounds like you got it covered. Sounds like you have figured out how to pay through the nose. Why are you glad to see the healthcare bill pass? And didn’t you used to be a Republican? Like maybe almost all your voting life? And aren’t you an investor in the stock market?”

Well, I hear you, and I could write about all of those questions. And I actually have a couple of things cooking over in Word. But I am not sure I want to get into it – a time issue makes it an ROI issue.

As one who has chosen not to enter the political forum, I was so glad to see this thread appear here in the main forum. I think it has been given special dispensation because the topic has stepped beyond politics and into history. I hope it can remain here for our opinions to be shared. Can we walk that tightrope? I do not know. But I would not bet on it.

And, of course, I know that it is not all perfect. But the refusal by so many to even acknowledge the problem, or to address it, has taken us closer and closer to turning the USA into a plutocracy sliding into place assisted by those who want a theocracy. I believe in Democracy.

…………

Wow! I sure did digress on that one. Oh my! -- uh, please refer back to the first part of this post if you want to see what I intended to talk about.

Boomer

Hat's off to Boomer! What a great post! And what better example could there be that comments like this on this historic event belong in general discussion.

[Xavier]

Originally Posted by Boomer

Please don't be scared, Xavier. Those are fireworks! I have insurance, but I also can see past the "I" in the word. Maybe I should live in your village, too. .....

Boomer

Now that would be a wondrous thing! There are also so many others who have shown their ability to think and care and would also make nice additions to our village. This thread has demonstrated that people are good, generous, and do want to look out for their fellow man and make this a better world.

[JoInTV]

I so agree with ewissenbach! Just reading through this thread has brought on such sadness for me. What has become of us all?? Such venom! Such hatefulness! And, Boomer, I have always enjoyed your posts and hope that one day, if and when we are both able to move to TV, that we will meet. You are indeed someone whom I would like to call Friend.

I fear that those of us in the middle, trying desperately to come to some fair, middle ground will be beaten to death by the asylum inmates at both ends of the debate with their ‘take-no-prisoners” attitude.

Right now, my husband and I are covered under my husband’s employer’s healthcare plan. Is it great? No, I don’t think so, considering that his employer is a Fortune 500 global company. I’ve worked at smaller companies with better coverage and premiums. But, I am truly thankful that we have insurance. If we retire before being able to sign up for Medicare (which we would certainly like to do, and as many of you have done), we can avail ourselves of my husband’s plan, but at a very high cost - almost $18,000 per year, plus prescriptions (which will add another $2,500 annually). That’s in today’s dollars, with no future premium increases, no more prescriptions for either my husband or me, and no additional health complications. (And the present cost for prescriptions includes 3 generics. The other 2 are not yet in generic form. So, yes, we are looking for the most cost effective prescriptions possible at this time.) But we are quite fortunate that, if push came to shove, we could cover it. We would just have to economize in other ways. I know that there are many Americans that simply can’t. No way; no how; no amount of economizing would help.

Did I hope that the provision to extend Medicare to those as young as 55 was left in the health bill? You bet your sweet life I did! But, as with most negotiations, some things have to be left on the table. Does that make me want to go for the negotiators’ throats?? NO! I’m hoping that there are enough good things still intact to outweigh the not-so-good or at least the provisions that don’t directly affect me in a positive way. It’s not all about me. It’s not all about any one of you out there, either. Is this new program perfect? Hell, no! But, it is a start. I believe that it is a case of “A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.” We have much to do, but I fear that we won’t be up to the task because too many people are so blinded by their own biases and agendas (on both sides of the aisle). I picture them like a bunch of little kids with their hands over their ears, loudly singing la,la,la,la, so they can’t (and won’t) hear what the other is saying.

Well, I’m sure that my little soapbox oration won’t make a dent in the debate, but it was something that I just had to get off my chest.

[Donna2]

Originally Posted by DDoug

We are in a new country USSA United Soviet Socialists of America. Watch and see what comes next.

I agree. It is kind of funny. I have this vision of people holding hands and singing "we are the world" Wait till the bills come in.

[Number 6]

My last post disappeared?

Me too, but I guess that it was "political" in nature.

Anyway, all I really want to say is that the process was rotten and the outcome worse. In this society we should only promise equality of opportunity, not equality of result. Philanthropy is wonderful, forced charity is theft.

[billethkid]

That was not the intention, what so ever. That cannot be said for some of the many other jabs in the thread.

No struggle no progress!!

btk

[JUREK]

Originally Posted by Number 6

Me too, but I guess that it was "political" in nature.

Anyway, all I really want to say is that the process was rotten and the outcome worse. In this society we should only promise equality of opportunity, not equality of result. Philanthropy is wonderful, forced charity is theft.

I posted earlier and it also disappeared.

[Pebbles]

Originally Posted by Boomer

Hey! I’ve got an idea! How about everybody who wants to give an opinion in this thread also tells the readers where their own health insurance comes from. That could be interesting.

I’ll start.

Mr. Boomer and I each have access to recognized group plans through our former employers. A part of it is paid by those employers, but our share grows and grows with each annual renewal. We are not to Medicare yet. We do not like the constant increases as we pay more for less coverage. We pay those costs. But there are those who have worked just as hard as we have, through all these boomer-years, only to now find themselves being hit harder and harder to the point of having their retirement dreams held hostage by what they have to pay for coverage – if they can find it at all.

Do I hear some of you scratching your heads and asking, “Hey! Boomer! What’s your problem? Sounds like you got it covered. Sounds like you have figured out how to pay through the nose. Why are you glad to see the healthcare bill pass? And didn’t you used to be a Republican? Like maybe almost all your voting life? And aren’t you an investor in the stock market?”

Well, I hear you, and I could write about all of those questions. And I actually have a couple of things cooking over in Word. But I am not sure I want to get into it – a time issue makes it an ROI issue.

As one who has chosen not to enter the political forum, I was so glad to see this thread appear here in the main forum. I think it has been given special dispensation because the topic has stepped beyond politics and into history. I hope it can remain here for our opinions to be shared. Can we walk that tightrope? I do not know. But I would not bet on it.

And, of course, I know that it is not all perfect. But the refusal by so many to even acknowledge the problem, or to address it, has taken us closer and closer to turning the USA into a plutocracy sliding into place assisted by those who want a theocracy. I believe in Democracy.

…………

Wow! I sure did digress on that one. Oh my! -- uh, please refer back to the first part of this post if you want to see what I intended to talk about.

Boomer

Thank you for an excellent post Boomer!

[BobKat1]

How about a forum for "Moderates"? I'd sign up for that one.

[Villages Kahuna]

Originally Posted by Donna2

Those statistics have been combed over so many times and proven inaccurate because every country obtains their figures using different formulas. But I have a feeling you knew that.

C'mon, Donna. That's an easy response to make....allege that the statistics are wrong.

I don't know what you mean by "combed over", but I'll challenge you to provide current statistics from any credible source showing that American healthcare is not the most expensive in the world, and that our health by any measure is comparable to that in any of the other developed countries that have universal healthcare.

When I say a "credible source" I mean one with a reputation for an ability to research questions regarding healthcare, not just some blog, political organization or partisan think tank which opines that the statistics are wrong.

I'll wait.

[bkcunningham1]

VK, the comparative ranking system comes from the U.N.'s World Health Organiztion. The Overall Performance, where the U.S. is rated 37th, is adjusted to reflect how well WHO officials believe that a country could have done in relations to its resources. Like it's title says, WHO promotes universal healthcare. The US doesn't have universal healthcare, thus the lower ranking.

An excellent article by Mark B. Constantian, a plastic and reconstructive surgeon in New Hampshire, in the Wall Street Journal offers another way to look at WHO's very subjective numbers.

"What apparently does not matter is that our population has universal access because most physicians treat indigent patients without charge and accept Medicare and Medicaid payments, which do not even cover overhead expenses. The WHO does rank the U.S. No. 1 of 191 countries for `responsiveness to the needs and choices of the individual patient.' Isn't responsiveess what health care is all about? "

While everyone seems to be tearing down our current, imperfect healthcare system, some other noteworthing points:

* Data assembled by Dr. Ronald Wenger and published recently in the Bulletin of the American College of Surgeons indicates that cardiac deaths in the U.S. have fallen by two-thirds over the past 50 years.
* Polio has been virtually eradicated.
* Childhood leukemia has a high cure rate.
* Eight of the top 10 medical advances in the past 20 years were developed or had roots in the U.S.
* The Nobel Prizes in medicine and physiology have been awarded to more Americans than to researchers in all other countries combined.
* Eight of the 10 top-selling drugs in the world were developed by U.S. companies.
* The U.S. has some of the highest breast, colon and prostate cancer survival rates in the world
* And our country ranks first or second in the world in kidney transplants, liver transplants, heart transplants, total knee replacements, coronary artery bypass, and percutaneous coronary interventions.
* We have the shortest waiting time for nonemergency surgery in the world; England has one of the longest. In Canada, a country of 35 million citizens, 1 million patients now wait for surgery and another million wait to see specialists.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...678102274.html

[BethS]

Originally Posted by 2young

The government already owns healthcare for more than half of the people,
including Medicare, military, and the Indian Health Service. Funny how most of the people who already HAVE SOCIALIZED health care are the ones
complaining the loudest about others and their needs! I got mine, screw the rest of you! If you hate SOCIALISM so much, please pay for your own insurance. (and while your at it, please send the government your SS checks!

Its change and people are afraid of change, I believe change is growth, to do nothing is just more of the same.

[BethS]

Glad to meet you Lou, a truly sensible man.

[Donna2]

Originally Posted by bkcunningham1

VK, the comparative ranking system comes from the U.N.'s World Health Organiztion. The Overall Performance, where the U.S. is rated 37th, is adjusted to reflect how well WHO officials believe that a country could have done in relations to its resources. Like it's title says, WHO promotes universal healthcare. The US doesn't have universal healthcare, thus the lower ranking.

An excellent article by Mark B. Constantian, a plastic and reconstructive surgeon in New Hampshire, in the Wall Street Journal offers another way to look at WHO's very subjective numbers.

"What apparently does not matter is that our population has universal access because most physicians treat indigent patients without charge and accept Medicare and Medicaid payments, which do not even cover overhead expenses. The WHO does rank the U.S. No. 1 of 191 countries for `responsiveness to the needs and choices of the individual patient.' Isn't responsiveess what health care is all about? "

While everyone seems to be tearing down our current, inperfect healthcare system, some other noteworthing points:

* Data assembled by Dr. Ronald Wenger and published recently in the Bulletin of the American College of Surgeons indicates that cardiac deaths in the U.S. have fallen by two-thirds over the past 50 years.
* Polio has been virtually eradicated.
* Childhood leukemia has a high cure rate.
* Eight of the top 10 medical advances in the past 20 years were developed or had roots in the U.S.
* The Nobel Prizes in medicine and physiology have been awarded to more Americans than to researchers in all other countries combined.
* Eight of the 10 top-selling drugs in the world were developed by U.S. companies.
* The U.S. has some of the highest breast, colon and prostate cancer survival rates in the world
* And our country ranks first or second in the world in kidney transplants, liver transplants, heart transplants, total knee replacements, coronary artery bypass, and percutaneous coronary interventions.
* We have the shortest waiting time for nonemergency surgery in the world; England has one of the longest. In Canada, a country of 35 million citizens, 1 million patients now wait for surgery and another million wait to see specialists.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...678102274.html

Thank you BK. If you read VK's posts you would think that the medical profession in the USA practiced in caves. People come here from all over the world for our medical care.
Another thing is that whenever there is disasters around the globe it is the USA that responds. Maybe if people here who complain all the time spent time in Canada or England waiting months for surgery they would appreciate what we have right here in the USA.