[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by frose

you would know

The Villages ain't "The Hotel California"...

Once you've checked out, feel free to leave...

[Laker14]

The important thing to me is not that the Villages agents are licensed, but to realize that they will never represent the buyer as a fiduciary agent. They will ALWAYS represent the seller.
So, if you are buying from VLS, unless you bring your own fiduciary (someone responsible for looking out for YOUR best interests and NOT the BUYER's), at your expense, you have nobody but yourself to rely on for that purpose. Since VLS absolutely will NOT share the commission with a buyer's agent, the buyer will be responsible for paying whatever fee their fiduciary charges for their service.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by Laker14

The important thing to me is not that the Villages agents are licensed, but to realize that they will never represent the buyer as a fiduciary agent. They will ALWAYS represent the seller.
So, if you are buying from VLS, unless you bring your own fiduciary (someone responsible for looking out for YOUR best interests and NOT the BUYER's), at your expense, you have nobody but yourself to rely on for that purpose. Since VLS absolutely will NOT share the commission with a buyer's agent, the buyer will be responsible for paying whatever fee their fiduciary charges for their service.

I'm not sure what you mean by a buyer's agent, but the typical listing contract requires the seller to pay the entire commission at the closing. The buyer pays nothing, and, as such, usually does not have an agent in the legal sense. Even MLS agents receive their share of the commission from the seller, and so they are legally working for the seller. But, all licensed real estate agents have a fiduciary obligation to both the buyer and the seller according to Florida law. Having a fiduciary obligation is very different from representing someone as their "agent". A buyer can hire an agent and pay them a separate fee to represent them, but that fee would be above and beyond the fee prescribed in the listing contract. Most buyers are not willing to pay a separate fee to have an legal agent.

[Laker14]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

I'm not sure what you mean by a buyer's agent, but the typical listing contract requires the seller to pay the entire commission at the closing. The buyer pays nothing, and, as such, usually does not have an agent in the legal sense. Even MLS agents receive their share of the commission from the seller, and so they are legally working for the seller. But, all licensed real estate agents have a fiduciary obligation to both the buyer and the seller according to Florida law. Having a fiduciary obligation is very different from representing someone as their "agent". A buyer can hire an agent and pay them a separate fee to represent them, but that fee would be above and beyond the fee prescribed in the listing contract. Most buyers are not willing to pay a separate fee to have an legal agent.

From Florida Statute:
"A real estate licensee may not operate as a disclosed or nondisclosed dual agent. As used in this section, the term “dual agent” means a broker who represents as a fiduciary both the prospective buyer and the prospective seller in a real estate transaction"

If you are buying in the MLS system, and you have your own agent, your own agent gets a share of the commission paid by the seller.
In a VLS transaction, the buyer's agent gets no share of the commission paid by the seller. If I understand the language of the statute I quoted above, the VLS agent cannot, by law, be a fiduciary for both parties.
Perhaps I am misunderstanding the language.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by Laker14

From Florida Statute:
"A real estate licensee may not operate as a disclosed or nondisclosed dual agent. As used in this section, the term “dual agent” means a broker who represents as a fiduciary both the prospective buyer and the prospective seller in a real estate transaction"

If you are buying in the MLS system, and you have your own agent, your own agent gets a share of the commission paid by the seller.
In a VLS transaction, the buyer's agent gets no share of the commission paid by the seller. If I understand the language of the statute I quoted above, the VLS agent cannot, by law, be a fiduciary for both parties.
Perhaps I am misunderstanding the language.

Being a fiduciary and being an agent are two different things. An agent is paid to represent a client in selling a house. It is a legal agreement between the seller and the broker that is clearly defined in the listing contract. The buyer is not a party to the listing contract. The seller expects the broker to act in his/her best interest and find a willing buyer for the best possible price without violating the legal ethical standards. For example, if a buyer tells the broker that they want to offer $300K for a house, but that they are willing to pay $350K, the broker would be obligated to convey that information to the seller, as long as the buyer has not been deceived about the broker/seller relationship. But, being a fidicuary means that the broker must treat all parties in a fair and honest manner. So, if the buyer asks the broker how long the house has been on the market, the broker cannot lie and must provide an honest and accurate answer. The only recourse the buyer would have against a broker would be if the broker violates an ethical or fiduciary obligation established by Florida law. But, the seller can sue the broker for breach of contract if the broker fails to represent the seller adequately when negotiating the sales price or other terms of the sale. The difference is that the seller has a legal and binding contract with the broker, but the buyer has no contract. This is because the seller has agreed to pay a cash commission to the broker to be their agent, but the buyer has not agreed to pay anything. So, there is no contractual relationship between the buyer and the broker, and the broker or any licensed agent they interact with is not their agent. The only thing that a buyer is entitled to expect is that all licensed agents they deal with will follow the Florida laws of ethics.

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by frose

you would know

Who is you?

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

Who is you?

"I am he as you are he as you are me
And we are all together"


- Goo goo g'joob

[Laker14]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

Being a fiduciary and being an agent are two different things. An agent is paid to represent a client in selling a house. It is a legal agreement between the seller and the broker that is clearly defined in the listing contract. The buyer is not a party to the listing contract. The seller expects the broker to act in his/her best interest and find a willing buyer for the best possible price without violating the legal ethical standards. For example, if a buyer tells the broker that they want to offer $300K for a house, but that they are willing to pay $350K, the broker would be obligated to convey that information to the seller, as long as the buyer has not been deceived about the broker/seller relationship. But, being a fidicuary means that the broker must treat all parties in a fair and honest manner. So, if the buyer asks the broker how long the house has been on the market, the broker cannot lie and must provide an honest and accurate answer. The only recourse the buyer would have against a broker would be if the broker violates an ethical or fiduciary obligation established by Florida law. But, the seller can sue the broker for breach of contract if the broker fails to represent the seller adequately when negotiating the sales price or other terms of the sale. The difference is that the seller has a legal and binding contract with the broker, but the buyer has no contract. This is because the seller has agreed to pay a cash commission to the broker to be their agent, but the buyer has not agreed to pay anything. So, there is no contractual relationship between the buyer and the broker, and the broker or any licensed agent they interact with is not their agent. The only thing that a buyer is entitled to expect is that all licensed agents they deal with will follow the Florida laws of ethics.

excellent explanation.
Thank you.

if you were buying (and perhaps you have done this) a house in TV, listed by The Villages (VLS) listing service, would you be totally comfortable as a buyer, just dealing with VLS agent(s), and feel your interests were well looked after, or would you have someone with professional knowledge, either a non VLS real estate professional, or your own lawyer (all paid for by you) reviewing the process and legal documents?

And if you are a real estate professional yourself, would your recommend someone who is not a real estate professional to trust the process without a RE professional of their own reviewing everything?

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by Laker14

excellent explanation.
Thank you.

if you were buying (and perhaps you have done this) a house in TV, listed by The Villages (VLS) listing service, would you be totally comfortable as a buyer, just dealing with VLS agent(s), and feel your interests were well looked after, or would you have someone with professional knowledge, either a non VLS real estate professional, or your own lawyer (all paid for by you) reviewing the process and legal documents?

And if you are a real estate professional yourself, would your recommend someone who is not a real estate professional to trust the process without a RE professional of their own reviewing everything?

I purchased a new house from The Villages. But, if I were looking to buy either a new or resale house, I would select an experienced VLS agent who I could trust, and I would ask them to recommend an MLS agent who could show me MLS houses. Experienced agents should realize and accept that buyers need two agents to have access to all available houses on the market. I would not feel the need to pay anyone for advice, and would not feel obligated to buy a house from either of the two agents.