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Talk of The Villages Florida - Rentals, Entertainment & More
Talk of The Villages Florida - Rentals, Entertainment & More
Talk of The Villages Florida - Rentals, Entertainment & More
Talk of The Villages Florida - Rentals, Entertainment & More
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#31
03-07-2016, 07:46 AM
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As Chief Engineer of a AM Radio Station for 10 years, this issue caught my attention, so I dug more deeply into the facts.
The National Association for Amateur Radio (ARRL) initiated research on this issue in 2013 and did exhaustive lab testing. Here is a link to the ARRL web page that explains everything in detail.... ARRL Helps Manufacturer to Resolve Arc Fault Circuit Interrupter RFI Problems They built a test fixture in which could test any type of circuit breaker. In a nutshell this is what they discovered. Mike Gruber, the ARRL Lab’s EMC specialist, used a 1,000 watt HAM transmitter (more powerful than WVLG The Villages radio) as an RF source. Gruber says he bought one of “every AFCI breaker that I could get my hands on,” but when the Lab began testing them, none of the devices tripped. A ham in New Mexico who had reported AFCI problems sent some of his breakers to the ARRL Lab, “and those tripped when we tested them,” Gruber said. The problematic breakers were certain models made by Eaton Corporation. “We already had an Eaton breaker, an older model, but it did not trip,” he noted, adding that the breaker had a yellow button. The newer model, which had a white button, did trip in the presence of RF, however, even at power levels down to about 50 watts (a fraction of the legal HAM power level of 1,000 watts) on 17 meters. Gruber contacted Eaton, and two of the manufacturer’s engineers visited ARRL Headquarters in August. “Eaton was extremely cooperative and eager to resolve this,” Gruber recounted. “They spent the day with us, going over our test methods and took some of the problematic breakers back with them, eventually developing a modified version. “We have just finished testing the new version of the breaker, and it did not trip during any transmissions with our 1,000 watt transmitter and in other tests,” Gruber reported. ========= The suggestions in the forum posts above to have your Eaton breakers replaced is the right process to undertake to get this issue resolved. |
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#32
03-07-2016, 08:58 AM
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we my circuit breakers are tripped by ham radio
Quote:
this has been going on for 2 years, the electrician continues to replace the circuit breakers with the ones where the box is marked 'radio'... the circuit breaker mfg has sent newer versions, now after two years we are down to just one breaker which seems to go off... when I first called the electrician 2 years ago, they wondered when I was going to call, since everyone around me in Collier had called and they informed me that I live right behind the person with a ham radio... the more people I speak with, the more I find out that others are having the problem.. suggest we post the date and times when any of our Easton GFI circuit breakers are tripped... |
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#33
03-07-2016, 09:05 AM
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hmmm. Our house in Gilchrist is 2 years old. NEVER had a breaker issue here - but several of our neighbors had but their homes are 1+ year older. We do have 8 Eaton green-labeled breakers in our box. Installed by Galaxy. Again, never had an issue.
I want to be honest but not lose out if a problem does develop later. For those 'in the know' should we call Home Warranty or Galaxy and say some popped? Is there a warranty period for this issue? BTW, we do have a ham radio person living 1 block away...
__________________
I have CDO. It's like OCD but all the letters are in alphabetical order - AS THEY SHOULD BE.  "Yesterday Belongs to History, Tomorrow Belongs to God, Today Belongs to Me" |
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#34
03-07-2016, 10:09 AM
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AFCI Circuit Breaker video
There was a long and now closed thread titled "Breakers Tripping in Neighborhood" back in September. Much info there.
It seems that in some cases there is a legitimate electrical problem and the AFCI breaker is doing it's job. (post light problem and refrigerator problems) but that would only affect one breaker. In the case of multiple AFCI breakers tripping at the same time, I would look at ham radio being the cause. Remember, ham radio does not have to be at a base station, it could also be mobile. It's not the ham radio operators fault and it's not The Villages fault. Seems the newest version of AFCI breaker just didn't get enough radio frequency testing. If you'd like to watch it actually happen, take a look at this video where the ham radio operator worked with neighbors to try to narrow down the problem. The sound cuts in and out a little. This video is NOT in The Villages. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsILD0Fce1s |
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#35
03-07-2016, 10:37 AM
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#36
03-07-2016, 10:51 AM
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I live in a new construction and have had breaker problems since I moved in. Breakers have been replaced due to the constant tripping. A few days ago parts of my house went dark, as did a neighbor' house. According to the electricians it is thought to be caused by an old ham system. When SECO checked my system they also stated that it appeared to be caused by an old ham system. SECO said they are trying to zero in on the user of the older ham system. Ham operators are amazing and the services they provide during disasters has been incredible. It's just frustrating to deal with.
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#37
03-07-2016, 11:06 AM
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Circuit breakers
We had the problem and so did two adjacent neighbors. It happen post warranty period. we called the electrician on the list the builder gave us and they changed them no charge. The electrician agreed that there was a connection between ham radios and these certain breakers.
The video in this thread shows the relationship and effects at various frequencies and power output. Maybe guidelines could be established for ham radios. I don't know if that is possible because I'm not sure what ham radios are used for and if their minimum required output is still tripping breakers. BTW, I'm in Charlotte and have not had a problem after the replacement |
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#38
03-07-2016, 01:33 PM
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A lot of us in The Village of Charolette had breakers that were tripping, mine tripped 4 times & then I did call Home Warranty & they did send someone out & the did change them. The only thing I can tell you what tripped them is what they told me, the Ham operators were on the same frequency. I really don't know why these same 7 breakers are the only breakers that tripped. All 7 breakers had a little "Test" tag on them & had a little "Test" button on them. Does anybody know why these type of breakers were used? Also 6 of them were 15 amp & 1 was 20 amp. I never ever had a breaker trip up north because of some frequency or had this type of breaker in any of my entrance box.
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#39
03-07-2016, 01:57 PM
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Follow up, I checked with some of the close neighbors, and so far 5 neighbors or more had simultaneous breaker tripping, all were AFCI breakers. I called home warranty today, and the electrician will be out Wednesday to replace 6 breakers. These are all Eaton breaker, WHITE test button, and GREEN stripe with the word TEST.
As a retired professional electrical engineer, it appears to be interesting that this recent disruption was over a large area. I would seem to me that this would point more to some form of conducted electrical noise on the SECO system, then the Ham radio interference. I had tried to discuss this we SECO before, but did not get anywhere. Prior to retiring, the utility I worked for, did have occasions where noise was conducted through the system. As a matter of fact they use this to actually remotely read their 1.4 million revenue meters, but this was in a frequency band that does not interfere with the Eaton AFCI circuit breakers. Continue to call home warranty about this, and get your breakers changed out.
__________________
Pennsylvania, for 60+ years, most recently, Allentown, now TV. 
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#41
03-12-2016, 07:59 AM
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Yes, was told by SECO that they had replaced breakers in over 300 homes (through home warranty). Also told the HAM operator story. So why not install the appropriate breakers in the first place? Short answer - not in accordance with contract. So I guess a cost/benefits analysis determined cheaper, yet effective breakers will see more money than the costs of replacing a small percentage of breakers. As previously mentioned, call home warranty about electrical warranty, and schedule your replacement. It must have happened at least 3 times to qualify for replacement.
Last edited by sherri2305; 03-13-2016 at 07:49 AM. |
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#42
03-12-2016, 08:07 AM
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Two days ago I was sitting in front of my computer which is in the front guest room and the breaker blew. At first I thought the whole went out, but it was only one breaker. I live in Lake county. Should I call my electric company and have it looked at after only one occurrence?
__________________
The Beatlemaniacs of The Villages meet every Friday 10:00am at the O'Dell Recreation Center. "I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend." - Thomas Jefferson to William Hamilton, April 22, 1800. |
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#43
03-12-2016, 08:19 AM
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It's a simple problem and fix. Your builders electrical contractor installed inexpensive unshielded breakers - very sensitive devices that will react (as designed) to very small currents from any electromagnetic source. Call TV Home Warranty, explain that it has happened frequently for no apparent reason, and they will have the contractor call you for an appointment to replace them under warranty. Home Warranty needs to hear that it is abnormally frequent and not a faulty lamp or outlet. The good news is that the contractor is stepping up at his expense to correct the issue.
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#44
03-12-2016, 12:19 PM
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Let me provide some clarification. There is no cost difference between the original AFCI breakers installed and the replacements. There is a difference in the design. The original breakers, were good, the second generation had problems with radio transmitters, however this was NOT discovered until LOTS of them were installed. They continued to be installed until a suitable replacement AFCI breaker was designed and tested.
I just had mine replaced, and the newest generation LOOKS EXACTLY THE SAME as the ones that were replaced. This may be the cause of some of the confusion as you cannot look at the breakers and see if these are the affected design. The result is that these are being replaced on a complaint basis. Hope this helps.
__________________
Pennsylvania, for 60+ years, most recently, Allentown, now TV.
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#45
03-13-2016, 05:27 PM
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Tripping Breakers
I live in Fernandina and our breakers were replaced twice. They continued to trip and were again replaced at no charge. The breakers continue to trip-just not as often. I have been told that it is a ham operator and not to use GE bulbs. I have been asked what else did you have on..as if I run around and turn on all the lights, the TV, the oven, the stereo, the vacuum...etc. Yesterday the breaker that controls the opposite side of the house tripped. I had on one light and the iron. ( that will teach me to iron!) I have lived in enough houses to know that this is not normal. Is anyone else experiencing this? I am concerned now that the house is not properly wired. Any calming thoughts???
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