[Advogado]

Originally Posted by mickey100

I would expect that IF there was a negative effect to the Villagers, for example, if the VCCDD had to pay penalties which affected its ability to provide our amenities, there would be a class action lawsuit against the developer. And of course, we don't know what the outcome of that would be.

You got that right, although I would be pretty sure the residents would ultimately prevail. But what happens in the meantime to the amenity system?

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Advogado

Gracie is right when she indicates that nobody can tell you, with any certainty, what the outcome will be. You are also right-- some of the potential outcomes would not be "very good".

It is possible (although it seems unlikely) that the IRS will (a) change its position and say that developer-controlled CDDs can issue tax exempt bonds, or (b) only apply the proscription against such issuance prospectively (a real possibility). In either case, there would appear to be no impact on Villagers.

However, if the IRS successfully maintains its current position, there would presumably be huge costs incurred by the VCCDD, which owns a big chunk of the amenity facilities. If that happens, the concern to Villagers is how the amenity system would have the financial resources to continue to operate. But you should understand that, even if the VCCDD loses, the IRS cannot come after the Villagers for any taxes, penalties, etc.

Exactly how all this plays out, time will tell. For a more complete analysis, go to the POA website. You should also discount just about everything that the VHA and Daily Sun have said about the matter.

I strongly disagree.

[rubicon]

As residents follow this issue they need with support from the POA to discuss what options are available to them depending on the outcome.

It must begin with what the decision means for The Villages future

it must include who has liability/responsibility why the IRS ruled against The Villages, if they do

it must include research on related legal cases

[Advogado]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

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I strongly disagree.

Then you have not been following this matter very closely.

[Easyrider]

Originally Posted by mickey100

I would expect that IF there was a negative effect to the Villagers, for example, if the VCCDD had to pay penalties which affected its ability to provide our amenities, there would be a class action lawsuit against the developer. And of course, we don't know what the outcome of that would be.

I do know none of this IRS Bond Issue problem was disclosed to us as potential purchasers before we closed as required by Florida Real Estate Disclosure Laws and that in itself is a class action lawsuit if the outcome has a negative effect on the home buyers.

[Bogie Shooter]

Hundreds and hundreds of opinions. Nobody really knows.

IRS investigation
Developer IRS issues.
IRS/Bond Issue
Can I get a straight answer on IRS?
IRS Investigation - tax-free bonds
Daily Sun article: District updates position on IRS
Latest Development in the IRS Tax-Exempt-Bond Investigation
IRS resets bond challenge.

[dillywho]

Has it occurred to anyone here that IF the IRS prevails that it may just all fall on the developer alone? Then what will the nay-sayers have to say about the developer?

Who took the risk to develop this place? Certainly none of us. How could the developers possibly have known for sure that if they built all this that it would be a sure-shot? As I see it, we really don't have anything to lose.

I remember when they had their troubles in Montana how people here were so worried about what ramifications we would all suffer if they lost in court. They lost and that was the end of that; no impact here other than criticisms of how they got into trouble in the first place and what scoundrels they are.

I don't know them, but I do appreciate their ability to do business. They have done many things here that they didn't have to do. The land for the VA Clinic comes to mind, for one. I'm sure it generates business for them in various ways but not having to constantly travel to Leesburg or Gainesville is a big plus for lots of folks here.

Let's worry about the issues facing each of us everyday and not so much about something over which we have no control. It still beats the heck out of any place else we've lived since retirement or considered. Comparison shopping is always an option.

[mickey100]

Originally Posted by dillywho

...
Let's worry about the issues facing each of us everyday and not so much about something over which we have no control. It still beats the heck out of any place else we've lived since retirement or considered. Comparison shopping is always an option.

At present it beats the heck out of any other retirement option we considered. However, if something happens to negatively affect the amenity fund flow, we'll all be singing a different tune. As Advogado said, hopefully the residents would prevail in a class action lawsuit, but that could take years, and in the meantime our property values would most likely take a hit. I'm certainly hoping things go our way, but realistically, I don't see any guarantees.

[Mikeod]

Originally Posted by dillywho

Has it occurred to anyone here that IF the IRS prevails that it may just all fall on the developer alone? Then what will the nay-sayers have to say about the developer?
.

The dispute is between the central districts and the IRS. The developer is involved only because he is the principal landowner in the central districts and thus controls the makeup of the boards. But our amenity fees go to the central districts and the quality of our amenities may be at risk if the IRS prevails.

Now, there are those who believe the developer will not let our amenities suffer and will step in to cover penalties and interest if they are imposed. But he has no legal obligation to do that. With the profits earned from the sale of the amenities, which was maximized because of the tax-free bonds, there may be a moral obligation to keep us whole since we did not benefit in any significant way from the bond issue.

But, as stated many times before, nobody knows what the outcome will be.

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by mickey100

At present it beats the heck out of any other retirement option we considered. However, if something happens to negatively affect the amenity fund flow, we'll all be singing a different tune. As Advogado said, hopefully the residents would prevail in a class action lawsuit, but that could take years, and in the meantime our property values would most likely take a hit. I'm certainly hoping things go our way, but realistically, I don't see any guarantees.

So much certainty...........................

[Easyrider]

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Summerhill
Posts: 899
Default My Thoughts
Has it occurred to anyone here that IF the IRS prevails that it may just all fall on the developer alone? Then what will the nay-sayers have to say about the developer?

Who took the risk to develop this place? Certainly none of us. How could the developers possibly have known for sure that if they built all this that it would be a sure-shot? As I see it, we really don't have anything to lose.





Of course you realize it started very small and was added to as the original venture paid off and then more was added as more and more money was made . It's not like the whole thing was built at once hoping for a winner and millions were put at risk on less than a sure thing up front.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by dillywho

Has it occurred to anyone here that IF the IRS prevails that it may just all fall on the developer alone? Then what will the nay-sayers have to say about the developer?

Who took the risk to develop this place? Certainly none of us. How could the developers possibly have known for sure that if they built all this that it would be a sure-shot? As I see it, we really don't have anything to lose.

I remember when they had their troubles in Montana how people here were so worried about what ramifications we would all suffer if they lost in court. They lost and that was the end of that; no impact here other than criticisms of how they got into trouble in the first place and what scoundrels they are.

I don't know them, but I do appreciate their ability to do business. They have done many things here that they didn't have to do. The land for the VA Clinic comes to mind, for one. I'm sure it generates business for them in various ways but not having to constantly travel to Leesburg or Gainesville is a big plus for lots of folks here.

Let's worry about the issues facing each of us everyday and not so much about something over which we have no control. It still beats the heck out of any place else we've lived since retirement or considered. Comparison shopping is always an option.

Well said. And although it wasn't the size it is now, the money put to risk was most everything they had.

Thank you Morse family for all of us who appreciate it and for those who don't.

[JP]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Well said. And although it wasn't the size it is now, the money put to risk was most everything they had.

Thank you Morse family for all of us who appreciate it and for those who don't.

I agree and it just goes to show you what can be done when there is money available that isn't taxed like crazy.

There could be more places like TV all across America if the government would just get out of our pockets and more people would accept individual responsibility.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by JP

I agree and it just goes to show you what can be done when there is money available that isn't taxed like crazy.

There could be more places like TV all across America if the government would just get out of our pockets and more people would accept individual responsibility.

I want to hug you.

[marlinguy]

Thanks for the direction to the POA website. Never even knew there was one. Now I understand why "no one knows"?? Geez, thinking about a hefty bond on a golf course home, enjoying life and all "the stuff" and potentially have a major "glitch",,,and never having been able to enjoy "the stuff". Boy, something to think about