[Mikeod]

Originally Posted by marlinguy

Thanks for the direction to the POA website. Never even knew there was one. Now I understand why "no one knows"?? Geez, thinking about a hefty bond on a golf course home, enjoying life and all "the stuff" and potentially have a major "glitch",,,and never having been able to enjoy "the stuff". Boy, something to think about

I hope you understand that the bond on your home is not the bond(s) involved in the IRS dispute.

[mickey100]

Originally Posted by mikeod

The dispute is between the central districts and the IRS. The developer is involved only because he is the principal landowner in the central districts and thus controls the makeup of the boards. But our amenity fees go to the central districts and the quality of our amenities may be at risk if the IRS prevails.

Now, there are those who believe the developer will not let our amenities suffer and will step in to cover penalties and interest if they are imposed. But he has no legal obligation to do that. With the profits earned from the sale of the amenities, which was maximized because of the tax-free bonds, there may be a moral obligation to keep us whole since we did not benefit in any significant way from the bond issue.

But, as stated many times before, nobody knows what the outcome will be.

I agree - in my opinion there is a moral obligation on the part of the developer to keep us whole, but unfortunately no legal obligation.

[marlinguy]

If you don't mind, when you have a chance and not too time consuming, I would love to know the details, which is for what.

Thanks

[Advogado]

Originally Posted by mickey100

I agree - in my opinion there is a moral obligation on the part of the developer to keep us whole, but unfortunately no legal obligation.

There is a contractual obligation on the part of the Developer to continue to provide the amenities in exchange for payment of the amenity fees.
Take a look at your deed restrictions. Understanding that is basic to understanding how the whole amenities system works.

In this regard, remember that, although everybody refers to the Developer as "he", the Developer is really an "it"-- a corporation owned by the Morse family.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by marlinguy

If you don't mind, when you have a chance and not too time consuming, I would love to know the details, which is for what.

Thanks

Go to search above and type in bond.
There are hundreds of thousands of words written about it. There are two bonds. The one a buyer pays when he buys a new home here that is for the cost of the roads and the lights and the underground plumbing and the whole infrastructure. This bond is NOT included in the price of a home like it is in other parts of the country. On most new homes it is about 24 thousand dollars extra.

The bond that there is so much discussion about is the other one that is an investigation by the IRS. The issue is whether it is o.k. to have municipal bonds that are tax free in a CDD, which this is. A very unusual municipal situation that is working far better than the other kinds if you ask me.

The developer is not being investigated for not paying his proper income tax or anything shady.

There are those who like the developer and are on the side of big business and there are those who don't like the developer and don't like big business. There are those who don't know the developer, that would be every single person who lives here I would guess. It boils down sadly to be too often a political opinion whether you think Gary Morse is a good guy or a spawn of the devil.

And that is just my opinion.

[redwitch]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

There are those who like the developer and are on the side of big business and there are those who don't like the developer and don't like big business. There are those who don't know the developer, that would be every single person who lives here I would guess. It boils down sadly to be too often a political opinion whether you think Gary Morse is a good guy or a spawn of the devil.

And that is just my opinion.

And then are those who appreciate what has been accomplished here and the work entailed in creating TV but think the Morses have feet of clay. They can be greedy. They can be high-handed. They have shown themselves to participate in some questionable practices at times. They also have freely contributed their own money to various things and charities in TV. They aren't devils. They aren't saints.

Personally, I don't want to meet Mark or Gary Morse. I doubt they are the type of people with whom I really want to associate. Like most TVers, I think Harold Schwartz walked on water.

[rubicon]

Originally Posted by dillywho

Has it occurred to anyone here that IF the IRS prevails that it may just all fall on the developer alone? Then what will the nay-sayers have to say about the developer?

Who took the risk to develop this place? Certainly none of us. How could the developers possibly have known for sure that if they built all this that it would be a sure-shot? As I see it, we really don't have anything to lose.

I remember when they had their troubles in Montana how people here were so worried about what ramifications we would all suffer if they lost in court. They lost and that was the end of that; no impact here other than criticisms of how they got into trouble in the first place and what scoundrels they are.

I don't know them, but I do appreciate their ability to do business. They have done many things here that they didn't have to do. The land for the VA Clinic comes to mind, for one. I'm sure it generates business for them in various ways but not having to constantly travel to Leesburg or Gainesville is a big plus for lots of folks here.

Let's worry about the issues facing each of us everyday and not so much about something over which we have no control. It still beats the heck out of any place else we've lived since retirement or considered. Comparison shopping is always an option.

Hi dillywho: I appreciate your thoughts and comments and your desire not to pre-judge. However if you read all of what the IRS questioned in its Notice of Proposed Issue you might not be so quick to speak. I am not saying what follows is true or untrue but what the IRS alleges

In an abridge version the IRS essentially is saying that the Developer because he and his control board voted on the sell of facilities using his appraisals accountants ,etc to determine market value and income streams and used the VCCDD which he controls as a conduit to finance the sell via tax exempt bonds. so the IRS ask if the issuer of the bonds, the VCCDD is qualified for tax exempt bonds.

since the Issuer of the bonds was not the Developer but the VCCDD it does not appear the Developer is exposed.

The attorney for the VCCDD is utilizing our amenities fees to defend a case which is the subject of questionable transaction created by..... the Developer. However the question remains is the Developer (Villages of Lake Sumter, Inc formerly Orange Blossom, Inc) a legal party to the issuance of the bonds or just a recipient?

If you study the Developers methods of finance etc he did not take any risks he shifted all of the financing to the residents and secured all the profits. he certainly should be hailed for his business acumen in this respect

[mickey100]

Originally Posted by redwitch

And then are those who appreciate what has been accomplished here and the work entailed in creating TV but think the Morses have feet of clay. They can be greedy. They can be high-handed. They have shown themselves to participate in some questionable practices at times. They also have freely contributed their own money to various things and charities in TV. They aren't devils. They aren't saints.

Personally, I don't want to meet Mark or Gary Morse. I doubt they are the type of people with whom I really want to associate. Like most TVers, I think Harold Schwartz walked on water.

Well said. Not everyone who is not a fan of the Morses is "jealous" of their money, disparaging of big business, or in disagreement with their politics. The issue is much more complex.

[Mikeod]

Originally Posted by marlinguy

If you don't mind, when you have a chance and not too time consuming, I would love to know the details, which is for what.

Thanks

Simply, there are bonds issued for the infrastructure to build the homes. Power, sewer, water, etc. These are the bonds that we pay annually with our property taxes, or pay them off entirely.

The bonds in dispute were issued by the central districts, VCCDD and SLCDD, to finance the purchase of amenities (exec golf courses, rec centers, etc.) from the developer. These bonds are paid, in part, by our amenity fees. It is that revenue stream that is at risk if the IRS prevails. Since our amenity fee increases are capped by CPI essentially, if more money has to be diverted to cover interest and penalties, there is less to maintain the amenities.

This is the Cliff notes version. The POA website has a more complete picture of the situation and a timeline of events.

[marlinguy]

OK, I think I got it now. As far as my vote goes, "He", The Developer, "Morse", whoever, was the inspiration and driving force that created one of the most unique and successful communities ever. What's more, the level of pure satisfaction from his customers is nothing short of astounding! He get's my vote for "DUDE" of the last 20 years. However, from what I gather, the question really isn't whether people like what he has done, clearly they do. It's whether his entities that created this (looking at new golf course homes as we type) did this within the scope of IRS law. Guess the IRS has already made up it's mind. Kinda like Barry Bonds, awesome baseball player, just he did it with the help of steroids. So, all this brings this to what is currently on my mind. Should I wait to plop down my $500K or so or jump in, the waters fine! ??? I would sure hate to jump in and the water just dried up. I wonder if the 270 or so new homes sitting in inventory is typical or are their others doing a little stutter step, wondering the same thing. Whaddaya think? I truly want to thank all of you for being so responsive for my education. I cant wait to get there,,,as soon as I get over my fear of no water in the pool.

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by marlinguy

OK, I think I got it now. As far as my vote goes, "He", The Developer, "Morse", whoever, was the inspiration and driving force that created one of the most unique and successful communities ever. What's more, the level of pure satisfaction from his customers is nothing short of astounding! He get's my vote for "DUDE" of the last 20 years. However, from what I gather, the question really isn't whether people like what he has done, clearly they do. It's whether his entities that created this (looking at new golf course homes as we type) did this within the scope of IRS law. Guess the IRS has already made up it's mind. Kinda like Barry Bonds, awesome baseball player, just he did it with the help of steroids. So, all this brings this to what is currently on my mind. Should I wait to plop down my $500K or so or jump in, the waters fine! ??? I would sure hate to jump in and the water just dried up. I wonder if the 270 or so new homes sitting in inventory is typical or are their others doing a little stutter step, wondering the same thing. Whaddaya think? I truly want to thank all of you for being so responsive for my education. I cant wait to get there,,,as soon as I get over my fear of no water in the pool.

Less than one months sales!
Come join us, maybe it will be settled before or after we go out in the box.
Why wait??

[marlinguy]

Working hard so I can carry a 7. Heard all you guys are Sr. Tour material. A seven,,,lol,,I cant even dream of a 7. Buy thanks, hope to see all of you soon.

[mickey100]

Originally Posted by marlinguy

OK, I think I got it now. As far as my vote goes, "He", The Developer, "Morse", whoever, was the inspiration and driving force that created one of the most unique and successful communities ever. What's more, the level of pure satisfaction from his customers is nothing short of astounding! He get's my vote for "DUDE" of the last 20 years. However, from what I gather, the question really isn't whether people like what he has done, clearly they do. It's whether his entities that created this (looking at new golf course homes as we type) did this within the scope of IRS law. Guess the IRS has already made up it's mind. Kinda like Barry Bonds, awesome baseball player, just he did it with the help of steroids. So, all this brings this to what is currently on my mind. Should I wait to plop down my $500K or so or jump in, the waters fine! ??? I would sure hate to jump in and the water just dried up. I wonder if the 270 or so new homes sitting in inventory is typical or are their others doing a little stutter step, wondering the same thing. Whaddaya think? I truly want to thank all of you for being so responsive for my education. I cant wait to get there,,,as soon as I get over my fear of no water in the pool.

I guess it depends on how much of a gambler you are. We live here and love it, but are dismayed by this whole IRS deal, and as you've read, there is much uncertainty about how it will affect the residents should the final decision be against The Villages.

[RVRoadie]

Originally Posted by marlinguy

OK, I think I got it now. As far as my vote goes, "He", The Developer, "Morse", whoever, was the inspiration and driving force that created one of the most unique and successful communities ever. What's more, the level of pure satisfaction from his customers is nothing short of astounding! He get's my vote for "DUDE" of the last 20 years. However, from what I gather, the question really isn't whether people like what he has done, clearly they do. It's whether his entities that created this (looking at new golf course homes as we type) did this within the scope of IRS law. Guess the IRS has already made up it's mind. Kinda like Barry Bonds, awesome baseball player, just he did it with the help of steroids. So, all this brings this to what is currently on my mind. Should I wait to plop down my $500K or so or jump in, the waters fine! ??? I would sure hate to jump in and the water just dried up. I wonder if the 270 or so new homes sitting in inventory is typical or are their others doing a little stutter step, wondering the same thing. Whaddaya think? I truly want to thank all of you for being so responsive for my education. I cant wait to get there,,,as soon as I get over my fear of no water in the pool.

270 houses sitting in inventory is less than one month of sales at the current rate.

[rubicon]

It was reported in the New York newspapers that the IRS ruled against the District.