[Nick B]

Originally Posted by lkagele

And the good thing is, those difficult to believe stories from NPR are being funded by your tax dollars.

You sure about that?

[Nick B]

Originally Posted by merrymini

Are you proposing a hospital for infectious disease, one for heart attacks, one for car accidents? You cannot possibly be serious.

We used to have TB hospitals right here in FL.

[Nick B]

Originally Posted by Topspinmo

Yes we had to save big bird.

PBS and NPR are not the same.

[Nick B]

Originally Posted by kendi

Capacity doesn’t necessarily mean the hospital is full. It also includes the hospital’s ability to serve patient’s based on the number of staff. And as we all know there is a shortage of staff and it’s only getting worse. But the media sure loves to push the panic button in those who swallow their pill.

If only they took the Red pill it would be OK right?

[Timothyimitchell]

Originally Posted by holger danske

No. It's a shoddy journalism issue. NPR is a news source relied on by many people. Yet they chose to run an article without adequate investigation to drive a certain agenda. Where in the article does it say the family contacted 43 hospitals but were turned away because of lack of space. The only hospital contacted said he needed specialized care not available there. I'm just calling BS on NPR. Don't turn it into a vax issue.

You called B'S on the right organization

[thelegges]

Originally Posted by Laker14

Not a separate facility for car accidents and heart attacks. That would be unnecessary. I'm suggesting a paradigm shift that separates infectious disease from non-infectious medical procedures. This would reduce drastically the iatrogenic source of infectious disease spread.
And yes, I'm deadly serious.
In the long run it would save lives and money.

I lost count long time ago, on how many times I was notified days or weeks later, that I was exposed, something infectious.

Patients don’t come with bar codes, and sometimes aren’t diagnosed with issues for days. Nothing unusual to be notified the patient you did a procedure 8 days ago Has just been diagnosed with TB.

Then you get the “We understand TB precautions were not used during this procedure, and you will need to be tested.” 40 year’s of being exposed to pretty much anything you can think of, gives you a different perspective on reality of working in healthcare. Sometimes the wheels on the bus are not present until it’s too late.

Your idea only works if every patient was tested for any possible issue, then wait for days or weeks for results before being admitted.

Sir I am sorry you are in CHF, trauma from accident, internal bleeding, but we need to make sure you don’t have anything infectious before you can come thru our doors. So in your ideal hospital, money would be saved, but lives would definitely be lost.

[Laker14]

Originally Posted by thelegges

I lost count long time ago, on how many times I was notified days or weeks later, that I was exposed, something infectious.

Patients don’t come with bar codes, and sometimes aren’t diagnosed with issues for days. Nothing unusual to be notified the patient you did a procedure 8 days ago Has just been diagnosed with TB.

Then you get the “We understand TB precautions were not used during this procedure, and you will need to be tested.” 40 year’s of being exposed to pretty much anything you can think of, gives you a different perspective on reality of working in healthcare. Sometimes the wheels on the bus are not present until it’s too late.

Your idea only works if every patient was tested for any possible issue, then wait for days or weeks for results before being admitted.

Sir I am sorry you are in CHF, trauma from accident, internal bleeding, but we need to make sure you don’t have anything infectious before you can come thru our doors. So in your ideal hospital, money would be saved, but lives would definitely be lost.

I appreciate your response, and your years of first hand experience in the trenches. You know more about this than I, obviously. I see your point, that in critical emergency situations, and in triage, patients have to be treated without the benefit of knowing if they are infectious or not. But isn't your scenario similar to riding a bus, subway or going to an indoor concert. I'm not suggesting that separating infectious from non-infectious care will provide total isolation, but doesn't it make sense that once known, outside of the realm of emergent critical care, such separation would serve to reduce cross infection from inside the facility?

[thelegges]

Originally Posted by Laker14

I appreciate your response, and your years of first hand experience in the trenches. You know more about this than I, obviously. I see your point, that in critical emergency situations, and in triage, patients have to be treated without the benefit of knowing if they are infectious or not. But isn't your scenario similar to riding a bus, subway or going to an indoor concert. I'm not suggesting that separating infectious from non-infectious care will provide total isolation, but doesn't it make sense that once known, outside of the realm of emergent critical care, such separation would serve to reduce cross infection from inside the facility?

If a patient is diagnosed after arrival, there are protocols, for isolation rooms, in the hospital, in ED, and the OR.

Every facility has a epidemiologist and staff to put protocol in place, and those I have know personally take their positions to the highest level. Difference today is the air quality of the isolation rooms has greatly improved over the last 40 years.

“Do No Harm” is for a healthy patient, the undiagnosed, and the diagnosed.

If a patient has been diagnosed prior,and admitted by their personal physician, the facility is given the information by the physician, prior to patient arrival, plus their EMRs are available to the staff, which is standard protocol.

However, the patient comes to the ED then to a procedure or OR, the patient may not be capable or aware.

Now if the patient is a repeater, staff knows the patient so well, protocol is put in place soon as patient arrives. You know that patient so well, you are like a adopted family.

You might want to speak to your PCP about your concerns if you don’t feel safe going to the doctors office, outpatient surgery center, or a hospital. Then you can ask for the protocol that the facilities have in place, and about cross contamination. Facilities would never be able to operate a separate facility as you are suggesting. Part of the issue during Covid was people were afraid to go to a hospital, call EMS, continue chemo, and even if they were having chest pain.

After 40 plus years In healthcare, fear has never been about what I have been exposed to. If it was then you chose the wrong profession.

[OhioBuckeye]

What’s the question? Is the question, did he go to 43 hospitals or get rejected to come? Your comment just sounds like a remark. Sorry don’t know what you want for an answer.

[Spalumbos62]

Originally Posted by blueash

May I summarize? Holger comes on TOTV and starts a thread entitled

I'll take "Things that never happened" for $800, Alex. where he says the NPR story is made up, it never happened because ..reasons..

Several people fact check Holger and find, amazingly, that the NPR story is fully supported by the dead person's obituary and the state Health Dept.

The facts seem to be that the man presented to an ER in a hospital that could not manage his heart attack. The ER called 43 hospitals before they finally found one that would accept him as a patient, and he was transferred. He died in that out of state hospital from his heart attack. Had there been a closer place with an open ICU or CCU bed perhaps he lives, perhaps not. But the NPR story, the obituary and the other evidence is that the events as reported actually happened.

I am waiting for Holger to return and explain why he is attacking NPR, which in this case was 100% reliable, but is leaving his reliability in serious question by not retracting his assertion or further documenting why he believes he is right that this never happened. I can report that NPR does make mistakes, and when they are aware of them they make corrections. Will Holger do the same??

Do you really need to wonder. There is absolutely no doubt this is a "non" person spinning a true story, in fact I also read it elsewhere. Walking around in fl nonvaxed is beyond brainless. As I just attended my fl friend's funeral.

[Spalumbos62]

Originally Posted by Rosebud1949

take all the non vaxers with covid , send them to a hospital with non vaxxed staff for treatment. Take all kids whose parents do not want them to wear a mask and send them to a school where the staff are not vaxxed. Then leave us sensible folk alone to try and survive these people"s total disregard for anyone who cares about their fellow man.

Btw you can send anti vaxxers the medicals bills for spreading covid.

Then perhaps the insurance companies will finally come to their senses and decided if you are not vaxxed that you should pay a higher premium.

I love every word of your post.

[Packer Fan]

I can believe that they contacted that many before finding a bed. My best friend mr former antivaxxer (he has changed his mind). Spent 2 weeks in August in The Villages hospital. The first 4
Days he spent in a cubicle in ER because they had no rooms. My wife, an RN, called 7
Hospitals in Ocala and Orlando and all were full. I dropped him off and picked him up and both times the ER was full of non vaccinated Covid patients. His doctor told us he only had one vaccinated 80 year old admitted and the rest of the hospital was full of unvaccinated patients. Luckily he got out, but he is still on 4 liters a minute of oxygen 7 weeks later. We are hoping he recovers, he is 59. My wife and I were in the same house with him and never got a sniffle because we are both vaccinated. I can attest that Moderna and Pfizer both work great.
Bottom line is the antivaxxers are filling our hospitals.

[roscoguy]

Originally Posted by holger danske

No. It's a shoddy journalism issue. NPR is a news source relied on by many people. Yet they chose to run an article without adequate investigation to drive a certain agenda. Where in the article does it say the family contacted 43 hospitals but were turned away because of lack of space. The only hospital contacted said he needed specialized care not available there. I'm just calling BS on NPR. Don't turn it into a vax issue.

Originally Posted by holger danske

As the OP I take exception to your twice posted accusation that I did not read the NPR
article. Not only did I read it but I read the WP article on which it was based and Ray's obit as well as other articles on Cullman and Rush Hospital.
From the WP article I learned that Ray's daughter who was quoted was Jeopardy fan hence the not so clever reference in my post's title to Jeopardy.

I also notice some discrepancies between the two, for example- NPR article "DeMonia's daughter, Raven DeMonia, told The Washington Post that it was "shocking" when the hospital told the family there were no ICU beds anywhere near Cullman, a town of about 16,000 some 50 miles north of Birmingham.” and the WP article “Raven DeMonia, his daughter, told The Washington Post on Sunday that it was “shocking” when the family was told that dozens of ICUs were unable to treat her father.
Now you may feel that is a distinction without a difference but I do not. I believe it was changed to subtly influence readers to buy the premise of their story.

Nowhere in either article does it say Cullman had no ICU beds available or that Ray was denied one there. The hospital spokesperson merely confirmed he was a patient there and that “The level of care he required was not available at Cullman Regional.” (Sort of sounds like the Villages Hospital that routinely airlifts patients to Leesburg) I think that neither article mentioning whether Ray was in an ICU bed or a regular bed is telling. If he was denied an ICU bed it would have been included at it would fit the agenda.
WP article mentions a “specialized cardiac ICU bed” was needed. Rush Hospital in Meridien has a a facility called The Specialty Hospital of Meridian … a 49 bed facility providing acute-level care for patients suffering from medically complex illnesses. Sort of fits Ray’s profile considering he had a stroke in 2020 requiring hospitalization in Birmingham some 50 miles from Cullman.
Yes his obit says "Due to covid-19....." but placement of any information in any obit does not rise to the level requiring journalistic standards and an article using such info is merely bootstrapping to support their argument. I notice that neither the hospital nor the other authorities quoted concede that this particular transfer was caused by overcrowding.
So in sum, I did read the articles, I used a not so clever title gleaned from them and I found their headlines and the tenor of the article agenda driven and to constitute shoddy journalism.
Feel free to swallow what you will.

Well, if you read the NPR story, you got something completely different than I did. You are absolutely right, the article didn't say that Cullman had no beds, it said that the needed level of care wasn't available there and that "Due to COVID 19, CRMC emergency staff contacted 43 hospitals in 3 states in search of a Cardiac ICU bed and finally located one in Meridian, MS.", which the NPR article did indeed quote directly from Mr. DeMonia's obituary.
However, I still can't understand what you feel "never happened" or was misrepresented in the NPR story. Do you have reason to believe that there were ICU beds available or, conversely, that the hospitals contacted were not at or near ICU capacity, at least in part due to COVID patients? More quotes from the article, from sources other than an obituary: "ICU capacity in Alabama has been maxed out in recent weeks, and COVID-19 patients occupy about half of the intensive care beds, according to Johns Hopkins University."
And this:
"Speaking last week, Dr. Scott Harris, the head of the Alabama Department of Public Health, said the state was continuing to experience "a real crisis" with ICU bed capacity."
I still see no "shoddy journalism" at all.

[holger danske]

Originally Posted by roscoguy

Well, if you read the NPR story, you got something completely different than I did. You are absolutely right, the article didn't say that Cullman had no beds, it said that the needed level of care wasn't available there and that "Due to COVID 19, CRMC emergency staff contacted 43 hospitals in 3 states in search of a Cardiac ICU bed and finally located one in Meridian, MS.", which the NPR article did indeed quote directly from Mr. DeMonia's obituary.
However, I still can't understand what you feel "never happened" or was misrepresented in the NPR story. Do you have reason to believe that there were ICU beds available or, conversely, that the hospitals contacted were not at or near ICU capacity, at least in part due to COVID patients? More quotes from the article, from sources other than an obituary: "ICU capacity in Alabama has been maxed out in recent weeks, and COVID-19 patients occupy about half of the intensive care beds, according to Johns Hopkins University."
And this:
"Speaking last week, Dr. Scott Harris, the head of the Alabama Department of Public Health, said the state was continuing to experience "a real crisis" with ICU bed capacity."
I still see no "shoddy journalism" at all.

Simply put we read what we want to read into an article.

"Do you have reason to believe that there were ICU beds available or, conversely, that the hospitals contacted were not at or near ICU capacity, at least in part due to COVID patients? Your question proves my point. The article gives me no reason to believe or disbelieve any of that AS IT RELATES to this patient. The reporter spoke to the hospital. Wouldn't you expect him to have asked these questions.
Did Cullman not have a cardiac ICU bed because of overcrowding caused by Covid?
Did the hospitals you contacted not have a cardiac ICU bed because of overcrowding caused by Covid? The answers could have easily confirmed the statement in the obit. The absence of such in the article leads one to conclude either he did not ask the questions or did ask the question and the hospital's answers did not fit his narrative. Either way my friend is what shoddy journalism is.
The final 2 quotes in your post may be accurate or not but they add nothing to the particular case in question. I suspect they were included elicit sympathy and to persuade the reader of the accuracy of the writer's narrative - to wit Ray's plight was caused by Covid spikes that were in turn caused by the unvaxxed.

We hear what we want to hear, new study confirms - UPI.com

[Bogie Shooter]

No winner……🤓