[bkcunningham1]

I'll come at it from a different angle. What liability would the Property Owners Association have, if any, in the matter? Their website outlining the matter from their prospective says they've obained legal counsel and are in touch with the IRS.

[EdV]

Allow me to respond.

The importance of the POA should not be overlooked. After all, they were responsible for bringing about a lawsuit a couple of years ago that resulted in (among other things) the recognition by the developer, of the Amenity Authority Committee made up of TV homeowners from each of the numbered CDDs. Although this committee has no decision making power, they at least represent a unified TV homeowner voice in the management of the amenity services provided by the two developer controlled amenity CDDs (VCCDD and SLCDD). I would look to them for late breaking developments if they have an attorney gathering information.

As far as who will actually end up paying to straighten this out, well that gets us into speculation. The point I tried to make above is that it won’t be the TV homeowners because there ‘s no legal vehicle for the two special CDDs to use for that. But I can tell you that in the lengthy complaint from the IRS agent that started all this, the agent pointed out several times that the federal tax free bonds issued by the two CDDs are callable. That was his way of suggesting that one way out would be for the developer and his two special CDDs to buy back the bonds at their present value and re-issue them as taxable bonds.

And who would make up the difference if the re-issuance of those bonds was the settlement, I don’t know but it won’t be TV homeowners directly in the form of a special assessment or big increase in the amenity fee. But I suppose it could result in a drastic cut back in the level of services, condition of the executive courses and recreation centers, etc.

Do you really think they would allow it to get to that. I don’t. In fact, think about it, it may amount to tens of millions of dollars, but the developer can afford it. He just won’t go down without a good fight.

Oh and yes Bogie Shooter, I’m in Stonecrest right next door. But you know the saying “what goes around…” and we have a few developer issues there that I’m keeping a close watch on too.

[2BNTV]

EdVinMass:

Still a wannabee.

That is as clear an explanation of this issue after reading many posts on this issue and couldn't make heads or tails of it in terms of how it would affect homeowners.

Good job on both your posts.

[kentucky blue]

Originally Posted by EdVinMass

Allow me to respond.

The importance of the POA should not be overlooked. After all, they were responsible for bringing about a lawsuit a couple of years ago that resulted in (among other things) the recognition by the developer, of the Amenity Authority Committee made up of TV homeowners from each of the numbered CDDs. Although this committee has no decision making power, they at least represent a unified TV homeowner voice in the management of the amenity services provided by the two developer controlled amenity CDDs (VCCDD and SLCDD). I would look to them for late breaking developments if they have an attorney gathering information.

As far as who will actually end up paying to straighten this out, well that gets us into speculation. The point I tried to make above is that it won?t be the TV homeowners because there ?s no legal vehicle for the two special CDDs to use for that. But I can tell you that in the lengthy complaint from the IRS agent that started all this, the agent pointed out several times that the federal tax free bonds issued by the two CDDs are callable. That was his way of suggesting that one way out would be for the developer and his two special CDDs to buy back the bonds at their present value and re-issue them as taxable bonds.

And who would make up the difference if the re-issuance of those bonds was the settlement, I don?t know but it won?t be TV homeowners directly in the form of a special assessment or big increase in the amenity fee. But I suppose it could result in a drastic cut back in the level of services, condition of the executive courses and recreation centers, etc.

Do you really think they would allow it to get to that. I don?t. In fact, think about it, it may amount to tens of millions of dollars, but the developer can afford it. He just won?t go down without a good fight.

Oh and yes Bogie Shooter, I?m in Stonecrest right next door. But you know the saying ?what goes around?? and we have a few developer issues there that I?m keeping a close watch on too.

Thanks for all your valuable info, but would not the CDD have to sell the golf courses,town centers,recreation facilities and utility plants to settle the judgement against the IRS? Since you seem to really have studied this issue, i would like your opinion on the current makeup of the CDD, the "Arms Length Transaction" of the sale, and appraisers who could not furnish the IRS with any backup documents to justify their appraisals.Finally, i didn't realize, always looking at every side of an issue and asking why, was such a negative.

[Xavier]

Originally Posted by kentucky blue

There have been no new updates on the IRS situation in several months, that i am aware of, but it is definitely ....................."The Elephant In The Room"

Are you serious? "The elephant in the room" for whom?

Xavier

[JimJoe]

Originally Posted by EdVinMass

Allow me to respond.

The importance of the POA should not be overlooked. After all, they were responsible for bringing about a lawsuit a couple of years ago that resulted in (among other things) the recognition by the developer, of the Amenity Authority Committee made up of TV homeowners from each of the numbered CDDs. Although this committee has no decision making power, they at least represent a unified TV homeowner voice in the management of the amenity services provided by the two developer controlled amenity CDDs (VCCDD and SLCDD). I would look to them for late breaking developments if they have an attorney gathering information.

As far as who will actually end up paying to straighten this out, well that gets us into speculation. The point I tried to make above is that it won’t be the TV homeowners because there ‘s no legal vehicle for the two special CDDs to use for that. But I can tell you that in the lengthy complaint from the IRS agent that started all this, the agent pointed out several times that the federal tax free bonds issued by the two CDDs are callable. That was his way of suggesting that one way out would be for the developer and his two special CDDs to buy back the bonds at their present value and re-issue them as taxable bonds.

And who would make up the difference if the re-issuance of those bonds was the settlement, I don’t know but it won’t be TV homeowners directly in the form of a special assessment or big increase in the amenity fee. But I suppose it could result in a drastic cut back in the level of services, condition of the executive courses and recreation centers, etc.

Do you really think they would allow it to get to that. I don’t. In fact, think about it, it may amount to tens of millions of dollars, but the developer can afford it. He just won’t go down without a good fight.

Oh and yes Bogie Shooter, I’m in Stonecrest right next door. But you know the saying “what goes around…” and we have a few developer issues there that I’m keeping a close watch on too.

You do seem very tuned into this problem so I would definitely like your ideas on why they did not get an IRS private letter ruling and determination before they sold the bonds. If they had done that, none of this would have happened. Does anyone know who the bonding attorney was that handled this for the District?

[Pturner]

Originally Posted by kentucky blue

Thanks for all your valuable info, but would not the CDD have to sell the golf courses,town centers,recreation facilities and utility plants to settle the judgement against the IRS? Since you seem to really have studied this issue, i would like your opinion on the current makeup of the CDD, the "Arms Length Transaction" of the sale, and appraisers who could not furnish the IRS with any backup documents to justify their appraisals.Finally, i didn't realize, always looking at every side of an issue and asking why, was such a negative.

KB, I'll be happy to share my opinion on these issues:
1) Would CDD have to sell the amenities?
To sell the amenities would be to kill the goose that continues to lay the golden eggs. Since that would be dumb, it's more likely the CDDs would refinance the debt, if necessary, to settle any judgement.

2) Arms lengh transaction?
No, I don't think the amenities sales transactions were "arms length".

3) Appraisals
I'm inclined to believe that independent appraisals would have been lower.

I agree with you that looking at all sides of an issue is sensible, though it requires accepting some "cognitive dissonance". Just because you love something (or somebody) doesn't mean that it (or him/her) is perfect. Likewise, just because you dislike something or someone, doesn't mean that thing or person is without good-- perhaps even some wonderful-- qualities.

As stated in a wikipedia article on the subject, "dissonance can also lead to confirmation bias, the denial of disconfirming evidence, and other ego defense mechanisms". Examples abound in the Political thead, in my opinion-- but, of course, I could be wrong.

So there you have it. It does not bother me to admit that the developer of TV-- a fabulous "visionary" who managed to create a paradise for active seniors-- is not perfect. Nor is TV perfect. I merely think that, on whole, it's the most delightful, wonderful place I can find to spend the rest of my life.

[kentucky blue]

pturner,
When i first located this board, i found a thread ,"The Lifestyle? What protects it's future?"It was the the most informative thread i've read.A number of posters made excellent and perceptive comments.I found yours mesmerizing, discussing your concerns about the IRS situation and the reality of it all.Also your concerns about the possible scenario of the developer or CDD trying to raise more money by selling amenity packages to non Villagers.That would increase traffic,diminish access to TV with the overcrowding and thus reduction of property values.
I didn't take your comments as negative, but concerns about TV's future, everybody should have all the information available so there are no surprises as they make their decisions on retirement options.I still believe TV is an amazing community, with incredible Villagers, but the IRS settlement is a huge red flag that needs to be settled soooooooooooooooon.As far as TV sales agents,WVLG radio station, and The Village Daily Sun there is no IRS problem, .

[poromo]

EdVinMass,
Thank you for all your insight into this potential IRS problem. I am seriously considering purchasing in Stonecrest and you also mention the Stonesrest developer has some issues you are keeping an close watch on. Can you let us know what they are? I'd like to go into the future with my eyes wide open.
Thanks.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by poromo

EdVinMass,
Thank you for all your insight into this potential IRS problem. I am seriously considering purchasing in Stonecrest and you also mention the Stonesrest developer has some issues you are keeping an close watch on. Can you let us know what they are? I'd like to go into the future with my eyes wide open.
Thanks.

Dear Poromo.

I don't have the ability to present my ideas like my friend PTurner but I do know this. I like The Villages far better than Stonecrest. I am a golfer (of sorts) and I prefer to choose among dozens of courses rather than one and with all apologies to my friends who live in Stonecrest, it just isn't as "sparkling" as The Villages. I would guess that there isn't as much financial strength to it's backing either, since it is going up against Goliath every day.

However, If I wanted to dance every night and get drinks two for one, I could just get in my golf cart and zip over to The Villages as many Stonecrestors do and they also benefit from all of the neat retail and restaurants that the large population of The Villages has attracted.

I think that every place that you can choose to retire has some pluses and some minuses and The Villages is better and more secure than most against a potential closing.

There are no guarantees. Who knows what tomorrow will bring to anyone, anywhere? I have lived carefully and conservatively all of my life and my choice is still The Villages.

[The Shadow]

I discovered TV in 1988 that was pre senior days for me. After that day it was my opinion Mr. Schwartz had built a community that no government to this day has had the ability to duplicate. SS was nearing completion at that time. People of my young age of 48 at the time would dream of some day after a product and successfully work career, of moving to the TV to live life in paradise. Some people were more successful than I for sure. Some people came to paradise and purchased homes that cost a half a million dollars plus. At appears those people can afford a large serving of paradise.

All this brings me to a question that has been on my mind since the IRS reared its ugly head. The high achievers, the ones that can afford the best, the ones that excel in business, why does TV real estate have 22 pre owned houses ranging from $500,000 to $850,000 listed for sale? Are the money wise people jumping ship? Are they getting out while the getting is good?

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by The Shadow

I discovered TV in 1988 that was pre senior days for me. After that day it was my opinion Mr. Schwartz had built a community that no government to this day has had the ability to duplicate. SS was nearing completion at that time. People of my young age of 48 at the time would dream of some day after a product and successfully work career, of moving to the TV to live life in paradise. Some people were more successful than I for sure. Some people came to paradise and purchased homes that cost a half a million dollars plus. At appears those people can afford a large serving of paradise.

All this brings me to a question that has been on my mind since the IRS reared its ugly head. The high achievers, the ones that can afford the best, the ones that excel in business, why does TV real estate have 22 pre owned houses ranging from $500,000 to $850,000 listed for sale? Are the money wise people jumping ship? Are they getting out while the getting is good?

OR...are they building something new like a lot of Villagers do? Or perhaps they have moved to the village of Heavenly.

[EdV]

Originally Posted by poromo

EdVinMass,
Thank you for all your insight into this potential IRS problem. I am seriously considering purchasing in Stonecrest and you also mention the Stonesrest developer has some issues you are keeping an close watch on. Can you let us know what they are? I'd like to go into the future with my eyes wide open.
Thanks.

Poromo, it wouldn’t be appropriate for me to comment on that here, but you can PM me and I’ll fill you in on the details.

For the record though, were it not for a badly arthritic ankle from an old skiing accident that limits my ability to golf to once or twice a month, I would be living in TV.

[The Shadow]

Originally Posted by poromo

EdVinMass,
Thank you for all your insight into this potential IRS problem. I am seriously considering purchasing in Stonecrest and you also mention the Stonesrest developer has some issues you are keeping an close watch on. Can you let us know what they are? I'd like to go into the future with my eyes wide open.
Thanks.

Stonecrest has far more covenants than TV. They will not give you a copy before you buy. You get your copy when you close. Surprise! You can read the covenants at the Marion County Clerks web page. Check it out when you have a couple days with nothing to do. Do not start looking under Stonecrest. The covenants started when Stonecrest was Floridian Club Estates. FCE went bankrupt.

If you want to put screens on you windows you have to get approval. Check amity fees, I think some areas about $190 and others I think $360 not sure. Golf is open to public.

[BobKat1]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

OR...are they building something new like a lot of Villagers do? Or perhaps they have moved to the village of Heavenly.

All good points. There are probably a wide variety of factors.

Plus the recession and stock market volitility has effected the incomes and net worth of many people.

I wonder what the neighborhood pool is like in The Village of Heavenly?