[DAWN MARIE]

Originally Posted by tommy steam

If I see a runner coming towards me I slow way down to make sure they can pass me safely. I am defensive driver and I would not try to stare down a runner to see who blinks first. I'm driving a 4000 lb car or a 700 lb golf cart and common sense tells me the walker or runner is going to be a lot worse off than me if I hit them.

and all the runners out there thank you!!!

I am also a defensive runner especially looking out for those cars coming out of side streets onto a main drag taking a quick right. As I'm running, coming up on their right I try to see the driver's face. Quite often they look left and without looking right just peel out. I've had my hand on the hood of a car doing this more than once only to see the look of horror on their faces knowing they did bad.

[DAWN MARIE]

Originally Posted by zonerboy

Some serious runners I have encountered seem to exhibit a rather strange attitude.
And that attitude is this: There is absolutely nothing in the entire universe that is more important than a runner being able to maintain their chosen pace, never having to break stride, slow down, or (heaven forbid) stop until their run is complete. Stop signs, traffic lights, etc. do not apply to them. Other pedestrians, bicycles, golf carts, other motorized vehicles all should yield to these runners.

Can you tell me what law states that pedestrians have to stop at stop signs and red lights?

Actually when running around the Villages red lights are not even an issue. The only light I can think of around here is on Canal Street and I've only run in that direct a couple of times in six years.

[Chazz]

Originally Posted by DAWN MARIE

Can you tell me what law states that pedestrians have to stop at stop signs and red lights?...

Florida statute 316.130(2).

[terrieb]

I am a power walker and walk where there are sidewalks and if there are no sidewalks, I walk in the cart path either on the streets or the designated multi-purpose paths throughout the Villages. Most times I walk against traffic when in the streets and if I see a cart coming, I walk on the grass until the cart passes, then I continue back on the cart path in the street. On the multipurpose paths, I walk with traffic because there are many of the paths where walking against traffic is not safe as there are areas covered with trees, bushes and blind areas to cart drivers where you cannot jump out of the way of the cart coming towards you. I try to be a sensible, courteous walker, but unfortunately a lot of times, I am not extended the same courtesy from golf cart drivers. It's a matter of being a defensive biker, walker, jogger, skater, cart driver and all should be courteous to each other. It's called "share the road".

[Chazz]

Originally Posted by terrieb

...It's a matter of being a defensive biker, walker, jogger, skater, cart driver and all should be courteous to each other. It's called "share the road".

Amen!

[DAWN MARIE]

Thanks Chazz for the statute. I guess that makes sense to be safe and I do for the most part follow this rule. Although I don't actually always stop at the stop signs on the paths so much as slow down, look both ways and continue. Running is diff than being in a car/cart because you have plenty of time as you come to the sign on foot to see the traffic pattern. If there's traffic coming I come to a complete stop and start to walk out to the middle of the path as the car comes to the gate. Usually that's where the signs are. I've also stopped at red lights (be foolish to run thru them with cars crossing in front of me) but will continue as soon as I see an opportunity even it's still red or I'll take a turn, go a few feet, and then cross to continue where I was headed. I'm very cautious and always defer to the cars/carts in these situations. But lights are not a problem here since I seldom come to one on my designated routes.

But usually that's not the issue. The issue is on the straight-a-ways with very rude and obnoxious cart drivers who don't want you sharing the space with them for whatever reason. They can see me coming from afar and are plenty ready for me when they get to me. It's not the norm, thankfully but it happens enough. I have to laugh because I'd estimate at least 75% of them are whizzing by me in a speeding golf cart.

[rubicon]

Originally Posted by DAWN MARIE

Let's face it. There are all sorts of risks involving driving. You could have a seizure or a heart attack as well. So you might as well not drive to be on the safe side.

Runners running against traffic cuts down any major risk involved. Like I've already said...I've not heard of one runner causing an accident in the Villages but have heard of many accidents caused by speeding golf carts. So why don't we eliminate the greater risk by getting rid of the carts? If that's your argument, that makes the most common sense doesn't it?

A cart is NOT going to pull into the path of a vehicle when I'm running. I've already stated that when I see a cart coming towards me with a car on its tail I jump on the sidewalk to give the cart plenty of room (even tho I really don't have to..I'm not that big) so the driver doesn't have to watch me and the car behind him at the same time. Besides all that, a cart does have another option if a car is bearing down on him from behind with an upcoming runner. He can take his foot off the pedal and stay right in the lane until either the runner or car passes...like I said...two seconds.

I've run all over the country and have coached at the HS level for years back home. Again, I've NEVER heard of one instance even when a HS kid caused an accident. I think the problem here really..to be honest...is the fact that golf cart drivers come face to face with an upcoming runner unlike when you're driving a car and they just don't like it. Before, in a car, it didn't matter because the runner was on the side of the road and not in the road so it didn't matter. Now, both cart driver and runner have to share the same territory and the cart drivers are incensed about it.

Dawn Marie:

Of course there is risk in all we do that is why many corporations have risk managers. The purpose to is deal with risk. The above-stated comments by you imply that the only method to treat risk is to retain it. Certainly you would be correct sometimes such as catastrophic events.

However, we are discussing risk that can be treated or dealt with. The fact is we will never see designated lanes for different users, ergo the multi-modal paths. The decision to build them I'm sure was purely economic not only from the standpoint of actually building them but from the basic premise that the Developer did not want to give up any more property than was necessary (i.e he wanted to build more houses) and would not do a tradeoff.

You have referenced at least three times accidents created as a result of speeding golf carts. I agree they are a problem. and like the diamond lane dilemma they can be dealt with in order to reduce risk and increase safety.

The critical point in this thread keeps getting buried. IRRESPECTIVE OF WHETHER IT IS CAR TO CAR, CART TO CART ,CYCLIST TO CAR/CART. JOGGER TO CART, ET AL WE HAVE SOME HERE IN THE VILLAGES BRAZEN ENOUGH TO BELIEVE THAT ITS THE OTHER GUY THAT IS GOING TO MOVE OUT OF THE WAY. (ZONERBOY) WAS SPOT ON.

It seems logical to me that the diamond lanes were designed for golf carts and not runners.

it also seems that if you are receiving waves from LEO's when you are interfering with golf cart traffic then these guys are not doing their job.

[Chazz]

Originally Posted by rubicon

...It seems logical to me that the diamond lanes were designed for golf carts and not runners....

They were, also, designed for bicycles, and so marked.

[DAWN MARIE]

Originally Posted by rubicon

Dawn Marie:



The critical point in this thread keeps getting buried. IRRESPECTIVE OF WHETHER IT IS CAR TO CAR, CART TO CART ,CYCLIST TO CAR/CART. JOGGER TO CART, ET AL WE HAVE SOME HERE IN THE VILLAGES BRAZEN ENOUGH TO BELIEVE THAT ITS THE OTHER GUY THAT IS GOING TO MOVE OUT OF THE WAY. (ZONERBOY) WAS SPOT ON.

It seems logical to me that the diamond lanes were designed for golf carts and not runners.

it also seems that if you are receiving waves from LEO's when you are interfering with golf cart traffic then these guys are not doing their job.

I agree that there are "SOME" as you said here that think the other guy is going to move but I've already stated when there's an issue I jump up on the sidewalk when the cart approaches. I usually do this when the cart followed by a car is about 50 feet away so they can see me make the effort. I usually get a grateful wave when doing so.

It also seems logical to me tho, that these lanes are PERFECT for us runners to run on. We're not interfering with sidewalk walkers nor car traffic. Yes, an occasional golf cart goes by us but this is where "share the road" should come into play on these VERY few times a runner comes towards a cart. I'd be interested how many runners in one week you actually come into contact with who are running on these diamond lanes. I rarely see one and bet I could count on on hand in six years how many I've seen in my path that I had to go around.

[Band1t]

Originally Posted by DougB

GF?

I am a runner who hopefully will be moving to TV soon. I read all of the chatter on runners in TV trying to educate myself before we get there. I enjoyed your post and several of the others. I will try to take all of these, on both sides of the issue, in to considerations when I'm on the roads. By the way, are there any running clubs in TV? Saftey in numberes. Tks

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by eremite06

No.......sailboats have the right of way, regardless of size. Yeah, if you have something huge bearing down on you, rule of thumb comes into play.

Sailboats do not have the right of way over freighters. Nor do they have the right of way over larger vessels with less maneuverability room, such as in a channel. In general, the vessel with the least maneuverability has the right of way according to the Rules and Regs of the US Coast Guard.

Nor do they have the right of way over commercial fishing vessels. We sailed on Lake MI for 25 years and are quite familiar with the right of way rules. We have had to "dip" many a freighter and get out of the way of ferries in a channel.

Sorry, off topic...

[Doctommft]

Southoftheborder: Thanks for your explanation of why some folks will run in the diamond lane where there is a side walk. [ Anticipating the question of why am I running in the diamond lane when there are sidewalks? For me it comes down to the surface].

Driving my GC on upper Odell, a petite lady jogger approaching me refused to yield. This set in motion a different set of decisions then I expected. I had to stay in lane because of a vehicle in back of me, and consequently had to slow and squeeze by the lady who now was as far to my right as she could. I believe that my bumper would make a greater impact on her than the concrete sidewalk. This came down to HER decision which I believe was a bad one. She could have benefited from your Dad's advice. He was right-on.

[OBXNana]

I was taught when approaching someone, to move to your right. If the cart moves to their right and the runner to their right, the problem's solved.

[ilovetv]

Some serious runners I have encountered seem to exhibit a rather strange attitude.

And that attitude is this: There is absolutely nothing in the entire universe that is more important than a runner being able to maintain their chosen pace, never having to break stride, slow down, or (heaven forbid) stop until their run is complete. Stop signs, traffic lights, etc. do not apply to them. Other pedestrians, bicycles, golf carts, other motorized vehicles all should yield to these runners.

So if you are driving your golf cart down the diamond lane and encounter one of these types coming right at you, do not expect them to get out of the way. They are way more important than you are. After all they are engaged in being healthy. And you are not.

Be aware.

This quoted by zonerboy is exactly the attitude we see, probably 90% of the time when coming up toward a runner in the diamond lanes. They clearly do not view approaching vehicles with the willingness to cooperate and take the precautions dawnmarie has already planned out and has in mind, and explained she uses.

The apparent attitude is that the runner thinks they have no responsibility to take precautions for their own safety.

When we were taught to drive, I can remember public service ads on t.v. and our driver's ed instructor and parents saying "Watch out for the other guy". Parents and instructors elaborated by saying "Never assume the other driver is going to obey the laws or rules of the road......Protect yourself by anticipating that they could/would do something illegal, stupid or dangerous".

To me this concept of "protect yourself" on the part of runners is what's missing here. Many will NOT step onto the grass or sidewalk when a cart approaching cannot swerve out to the left to go around them because of cars/trucks beside them, and they cannot just slam on the brakes and come to a dead halt causing a 10-cart pile-up!

[cquick]

Originally Posted by rubicon

The diamond lanes are not designated for runners but for golf carts and bikes and as such runners should move to safer ground.

.

you must be discussing Morse Blvd. north of 466. There are no sidewalks in The Villages. You must realize that runners and walkers have no choice except the roads.