[EdV]

Originally Posted by Peachie

This is my solution? You have twisted the fact, EdV, that even though YOU believe our cart paths are public, the fact is non-Villagers do not have access to these blacktopped golf cart paths unless they cross the private property of The Villages or come in on their street legals. .....

But you think it's perfectly ok for Villagers to drive their carts across the electric company's property to get to Walmart even though they have made it clear that they don't want them to and that they are trespassing. Of course, you've never done that, right?

[EdV]

You want facts, here you go. The Villages district government site defines a CDD as follows

Community Development Districts (CDD’s) are widely used throughout the United States to provide for certain service delivery infrastructure such as water management and control (drainage), fire control, road and bridge construction and maintenance, park and recreational facilities, mosquito control, port and inlet districts, water and sewer systems, sidewalks, streetlights similar infrastructure that is required to provide urban services….

A Community Development District is a public non-profit unit of local government with the special purpose of providing the services described above. As a unit of local government, the District is subject to many of the same State Statutes that regulate cities and counties..

The multi-modal paths in TV were built along with the roads as part of the infrastructure that was paid for with federal tax free municipal bonds. Those multi-modal paths are for transportation, not recreation. You cannot use federal tax free municipal bonds to build private roadways whether they are for cars, trucks, golf carts or tricycles.

The argument that Villagers make to justify their belief that the multi-modal cart paths are private is that they are being maintained with amenity funds. Yet thousands of cities and towns across this nation have streets that are maintained with local taxes. Can you sit there with a straight face and say that those cities should then be allowed to prevent you from using those streets? Of course not. If that were allowed, the entire transportation system of this country would fall apart.

[red tail]

Originally Posted by EdV

But you think it's perfectly ok for Villagers to drive their carts across the electric company's property to get to Walmart even though they have made it clear that they don't want them to and that they are trespassing. Of course, you've never done that, right?

ive driven thru there and I can tell you there is trash everywhere!

nuff said!

[justjim]

Originally Posted by EdV

And I think you are well aware of the fact that when you purchased your home in a Community Development District, that it is not a private gated community. As such, all of the roadways and multi-modal cart paths are open to the public.

I understand the roads are open to the public. The multi-modal cart paths are maintained by our fees----but anybody can use them. Am I missing something here?

[Peachie]

Originally Posted by EdV

But you think it's perfectly ok for Villagers to drive their carts across the electric company's property to get to Walmart even though they have made it clear that they don't want them to and that they are trespassing. Of course, you've never done that, right?

Ed, this is from an earlier post of mine on "The golf cart path" thread. Perhaps you missed it:

"And to the people in the historic section, should one of the property owner block access to land which that path crosses to give you cart accessibility to the shopping complexes on 27/441 after the gate is installed, SO BE IT! It is private property, get over the entitlement mentality which many of you harbor even though you knew this could happen when you designed your life around the illegal path."

Peace, Ed, I'll await the actions that take place tonight at 6:00 PM. It's not that I want to block Stonecresters out, it's that I want to maintain the integrity of The Villages itself.

[justjim]

Originally Posted by EdV

You want facts, here you go. The Villages district government site defines a CDD as follows

Community Development Districts (CDD’s) are widely used throughout the United States to provide for certain service delivery infrastructure such as water management and control (drainage), fire control, road and bridge construction and maintenance, park and recreational facilities, mosquito control, port and inlet districts, water and sewer systems, sidewalks, streetlights similar infrastructure that is required to provide urban services….

A Community Development District is a public non-profit unit of local government with the special purpose of providing the services described above. As a unit of local government, the District is subject to many of the same State Statutes that regulate cities and counties..

The multi-modal paths in TV were built along with the roads as part of the infrastructure that was paid for with federal tax free municipal bonds. Those multi-modal paths are for transportation, not recreation. You cannot use federal tax free municipal bonds to build private roadways whether they are for cars, trucks, golf carts or tricycles.

The argument that Villagers make to justify their belief that the multi-modal cart paths are private is that they are being maintained with amenity funds. Yet thousands of cities and towns across this nation have streets that are maintained with local taxes. Can you sit there with a straight face and say that those cities should then be allowed to prevent you from using those streets? Of course not. If that were allowed, the entire transportation system of this country would fall apart.

With all due respect, I don't think you can legally call a golf cart transportation unless it is Street Legal ----and you are a legal licensed driver. With that said, I still don't care if a few golf carts from Stonecrest or Spruce Creek use the trails. But apparently the Developer and his lawyers do.

[red tail]

Originally Posted by justjim

With all due respect, I don't think you can legally call a golf cart transportation unless it is Street Legal ----and you are a legal licensed driver. With that said, I still don't care if a few golf carts from Stonecrest or Spruce Creek use the trails. But apparently the Developer and his lawyers do.

well I care because right now our trails are pristine. take a look at the trails between stonecrest/walmart, and the "GATE". they are trashy and im afraid the same will happen on our trails.

[EdV]

Originally Posted by justjim

With all due respect, I don't think you can legally call a golf cart transportation unless it is Street Legal ----and you are a legal licensed driver. With that said, I still don't care if a few golf carts from Stonecrest or Spruce Creek use the trails. But apparently the Developer and his lawyers do.

Be sure to point that out to the Cop when tries to give you a ticket for a stop sign violation in your standard golf cart.

[EdV]

In response to any prior comments as to the cart path lot being private property so the owner can do whatever he wants, the opening statement of Resolution 98-106 reads:

WHEREAS, Leesburg Regional Medical Center, Inc., petitioner, for the purpose of providing a thoroughfare for golf carts, has presented to the Town Commission of the Town of Lady Lake, a petition to close and vacate said property, described as follows: [lot 3422 unit 13 etc.]

Clearly the petition was made to ensure that after constructing the cart path that they would not find out later that the town had future plans to construct a pump station or other such town utility on that lot.

Notice that the petition says “golf carts” not “Villager resident golf carts”. In fact, nowhere in the entire petition is the word “Villager” or “Villages” mentioned. Furthermore, since the approved engineering plans did not show any type of controlled access gate, it clearly supports the argument that this thoroughfare for golf carts was not intended to be restricted in any way.

It further states that a notice of intent was published in the Orlando Sentinel giving the public and the property owner an opportunity to object to the plan.

So it is my contention that in 1998, pursuant to the Town’s approval and the completion of the approved project plan, a permanent and public right of way for golf carts through that lot was established and remains in effect today and the current or future owner cannot change that.

[spk7951]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

I don't think that a few golf carts from Stonecrest are going to impact the Villages.

I would agree with that statement but my opinion is that this issue with this particular path goes much deeper than the folks at Stonecrest. If access is allowed to one group then that fact gives argument to others seeking same access to TV somewhere else.
First it was Stonecrest, very shortly it will be Spruce Creek South followed by Harbor Chase. Wildwood tried to get golf cart paths built along 466A back in 2011 and Sumter County shot them down. Now Fruitland Park wants access as part of approval for the developer to buy land for further development. Not to be forgotten is the small office park at Rolling Acres and 466 who tried to get golf cart access a couple of years back but were also shot down.
My points here are once things open up then it is hard to stop the tide. The upkeep and, here is the key word again, liability are owned by Villagers.

[graciegirl]

Hindsight is the best.

I think that when that wall went up, we shoulda let well enough alone and worked out the problems and inconveniences the best we could as we all have been doing for a good long time.

Now we are out of the frying pan and into the fire.

I still say that the Morses aren't transparent, but they are smart as heck.

[janmcn]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Hindsight is the best.

I think that when that wall went up, we shoulda let well enough alone and worked out the problems and inconveniences the best we could as we all have been doing for a good long time.

Now we are out of the frying pan and into the fire.

I still say that the Morses aren't transparent, but they are smart as heck.

That's easy to say if you own a car or have access to a car or are able to drive a car.

Hopefully all the Morse supporters will attend the meeting to show their support for the developer. The press will be there in full force.

[DAVIDPHS55]

What time is the meeting?
We basically use the golf cart access to go to doctors, lake imaging,the va facility,publix, winn dixie, the farmers market at spanish springs, retail stores, and various restaurants. We do not go into the villages just to drive around on the golf cart paths. If we were to use our car it would just put more traffic on the roads throughout the villages.

[Mikeod]

Couple of questions regarding private vs. public.

If a municipality uses federal tax-free bonds to construct something, how does that make it public? Let's say Lady Lake issues bonds to build a pool. Can they not prohibit non-residents from using it? Or say they build a nature trail. Can't they restrict access? I don't see that using federal tax exempt bonds automatically forces an entity to open access to everyone.

Also, a distinction needs to be made regarding cart paths. Those that are completely separate from roadways are maintained with amenity funds. If they are public, why are they not maintained by the tax dollars we pay in addition to our amenity fee? I don't recall a credit on my tax bill for that portion of the amenity fee that goes toward maintenance of those paths. Now, the paths/diamond lanes that are on the surface streets are maintained by the county and funded by tax dollars (property and/or gas taxes). That also applies to roads within the community that have no designated cart lane, but are used by carts as well as autos.

Frankly, I agree with others who believe that this whole situation is not the result of safety/liability concerns with outside carts entering TV. Rather it is a developer who has tired of outside businesses advertising cart access to TV which undermines his ability to sell/lease land for similar enterprises within TV. I don't know what Freedom Pointe or the facility on 466A paid for their property to get cart access within TV, but I think it is safe to assume it was more than the new one on 441 paid.

I truly hope the result of all this is the path remains open and access is unaltered from before the wall. I fear that if access to TV is restricted, it won't be long before Harbor Chase decides maintaining the path is not worth it without access to TV.

[Steve9930]

Originally Posted by EdV

Be sure to point that out to the Cop when tries to give you a ticket for a stop sign violation in your standard golf cart.

He can and not only that but he can give you a DUI.