[TVMayor]

Originally Posted by janmcn

That's easy to say if you own a car or have access to a car or are able to drive a car.

Hopefully all the Morse supporters will attend the meeting to show their support for the developer. The press will be there in full force.

If we were talking about turtles or birds the government would relocate them, may be the wall should stay closed and the people relocated.

[HalfWayIn]

I wonder if Lady Lake will use eminent domain, take the lot, and make the path open to the public forever? That would be a perfect solution.

[Peachie]

Originally Posted by HalfWayIn

I wonder if Lady Lake will use eminent domain, take the lot, and make the path open to the public forever? That would be a perfect solution.

For all residents North of the Villages in that area...

[Steve9930]

Originally Posted by HalfWayIn

I wonder if Lady Lake will use eminent domain, take the lot, and make the path open to the public forever? That would be a perfect solution.

Pretty much would put an end to all the arguments. I hope someone will post the meeting notes this evening. A factual post please.

[HalfWayIn]

Originally Posted by Peachie

For all residents North of the Villages in that area.

No, for all the public who are entitled to go in and out of the villages, at will, by law.

It's ok if they have to press a button to keep the false perception of TV being private. It's already legal for people to come and go as they please in the villages.

Let's not segregate, everyone is entitled to go to the villages, not just those that live there.

[Peachie]

Originally Posted by HalfWayIn

Let's not segregate, everyone is entitled to go to the villages, not just those that live there.

And there fellow Villagers, is in a nutshell, the problem with that hole in the wall.

HalfWayIn, you are permitted to come into The Villages by motor vehicle or street legal cart. It is not the Morse's intent to provide their private development to those of you who choose not to live here.

Are they unable to block access now, I don't know but if not, it would be very advantageous for Villagers to rent their houses out for Vacationland and move out of The Villages. Stonecrest could be advertised as an additional freebie for the renters.

We'll see how it all plays out.

[cabo35]

Very interesting read.

"The districts own and maintain the paths", not the municipality or the county.

"the county sheriff does not have jurisdiction to exercise its law enforcement power over the districts’ paths."

If the county sheriff has no jurisdiction over the paths but does on the roadway, it would seem to suggest a clearcut dichotomy between paths and roads and not the integration purported by some.

The Stonecrest "8 point manifesto" advocating to the contrary would seem to project a revisionist opinion.

No one knows how this will all wash out after the legal gymnastics, but it would appear there exists a clear separation between roadways maintained by tax dollars and cart paths maintained by district fees paid by Villagers. Exceptions on paths actually in roadways is self evident.

This explains why with rare exception, DWI comes to mind, law enforcement cannot enforce most traffic laws on cart paths. For certain they can enforce where the cart path commingles with the roadway.

LINK BELOW

The Villages Voice
Villages Fact Finder

Villages Fact Finder

The Villages Community Development Districts were developed as a mixed-use retirement community that were required to provide non-automotive, non-vehicular, multi-modal paths interconnecting the districts for bicycles, pedestrians, skaters and golf carts. These interconnecting multi-modal paths are intended as alternative transportation routes for pedestrians and golfers to access The Villages’ numerous golf courses and amenities, as well as, be used by cyclers, skaters, and golf carts.

Forms of Transportation Allowed on the Paths

The directives clearly provide for path use pedestrians, skaters, bicycles and golf carts. Other modes which are not explicitly addressed in the development orders (D.O.’s) of the Districts are subject to some interpretation.

Segways – not a vehicle (in the State of Florida for use on a highway) and are treated like bicycles – yes for use on path.

Mopeds and motorcycles – are vehicles (intended for use on highway) and do not meet D.O.’s intended use of paths. (Mopeds may use the paths when propelled solely by human power.)

Street legal golf carts and low speed vehicles are still either golf carts or intended for use also as golf carts, and therefore may be used on the paths.

Traffic Control Measures on the Paths

The Districts own and maintain the paths and therefore could adopt rules restricting certain types of transportation methods, however, these rules would have no real value since the Districts have now enforcement authority.

Similarly, the Districts could establish speed limits for safety purposes, but again have no enforcement authority.

The Districts has the authority to construct speed bumps for safety and to reduce damage to the paths caused by speed.

Enforcement of District Established Rules

The Community Development Districts do not possess any law enforcement powers. Also the county sheriff does not have jurisdiction to exercise its law enforcement power over the districts’ paths. A legislative change to Florida statues is a possible means to expand the traffic control and enforcement jurisdiction of local law enforcement agencies to extend to multi-modal path that are open to the public.

Golf Cart Registration

Without law enforcement powers, the Districts cannot mandate or enforce a registration process for golf carts. However, there is no apparent obstacle to the Districts offering a voluntary inspection and registration program as a service to those persons operating golf carts on the Districts’ paths.

A Legal Opinion

The Villages is among many developing “golf cart” communities pondering rules and their enforcement on multi-modal paths. The Fact Finder has summarized the findings of Districts’ attorney on multi-modal paths here and the attorney recommends that the Districts workshop these matters regarding speed bumps, legislative changes to expand the enforcement jurisdiction of local law enforcement agencies, speed limits and desired types of conveyances so there is continuity among the districts as required by the development orders.

[HalfWayIn]

Originally Posted by Peachie

And there fellow Villagers, is in a nutshell, the problem with that hole in the wall.

HalfWayIn, you are permitted to come into The Villages by motor vehicle or street legal cart. It is not the Morse's intent to provide their private development to those of you who choose not to live here.

Are they unable to block access now, I don't know but if not, it would be very advantageous for Villagers to rent their houses out for Vacationland and move out of The Villages. Stonecrest could be advertised as an additional freebie for the renters.

We'll see how it all plays out.

What problem? I have a home in TV and Stonecrest. Wow!

I still don't see how those in TV are entitled to lock others out by blocking any legal means of transportation. Oh, you say private property the path is? Well, that is where I got the idea of Lady Lake using eminent domain to eliminate the private designation. Actually, I think Lady Lake's decree already did that. Tonight is coming fast.

I don't intend to get into anyone's "intentions", you don't know, I don't know and no one else knows what Mr. Morse thinks or if he is even in town for that matter. Let's stick with the known laws rather then a perceived intent of someone as we will tonight at the meeting.

[JeffAVEWS]

Bravo Ed, I live in the Historic side and I support your position! There is a misfortuneate assumption that The Villages is a closed, gated community, and the facade of the gates we pass though (the ones on public roads) add to that illusion. I will print some copies and have them in-hand at the meeting.

[SpicyCajunPugs]

The law and the lawyers will prevail as always...enough said

[EdV]

Originally Posted by Peachie

If there is anything I have learned on these threads, it's that Stonecrest insists that non-Stonecresters can use anything of theirs that we want....

And nowhere in this thread nor in any thread in the five years I have been a member here have I ever even implied that a non-resident was entitled to use any of the private facilities in The Villages.

This thread is about my contention that a golf cart right of way to and from Paradise Dr. was established back in 1998 and that the multi-modal paths are a natural extension of the public roads in TV.

But it’s ironic to hear people complaining about congestion and overcrowding after buying a home in a community with a 120,000 resident build out plan. Amazing

[njbchbum]

Originally Posted by Peachie

snipped

HalfWayIn, you are permitted to come into The Villages by motor vehicle or street legal cart. It is not the Morse's intent to provide their private development to those of you who choose not to live here.

snipped

peachie - why do you think the developer had no problem providing access to that 'private development' - a very short cart path] to outside residents in the past 20 yrs?

[mrdarcy]

Originally Posted by skip0358

How could FP residents access TV golf cart trails. They're not allowed to use their carts until you get up to the small shopping center past the horse farm?

Fruitland Park residents cannot access TV golf cart trails at this point in time. But, if The Villages expands on the land across from Burke's BBQ, as is proposed, that land is in Fruitland Park's jurisdiction in Lake County. The Villages will construct infrastructure to support new villages, just as they have done in every other section of TV. This infrastructure will include multi-modal paths. Fruitland Park officials have already said they want their residents to have access to those new paths to get to the Colony Publix and other businesses by golf cart. The Villages representatives have told Fruitland Park officials that access on the multi-modal paths by non-Villages is a point on which TV will not negotiate.

TV representatives would have had a very difficult time defending this stance given the decades long unrestricted access on Paradise Drive, until said access was abruptly eliminated just prior to the meeting with Fruitland Park officials. Now it remains to be seen how negotiations with Fruitland Park will proceed. Sumter County and Wildwood officials can see the ways in which TV provides A LOT of revenue to local businesses, and they, therefore, have decided to concede some of their "We Want" points in negotiations with TV representatives.

I agree with Gracie that the Morses are smart business people. Look around you. How else do you think TV was built? By lazy, selfish louts? No. In most developments the Developer makes all manner of promises and then bolts outta there never to be seen or heard from again, especially when problems and the inevitable lawsuits arise. In our case, Gary Morse and the Morse family still live in the midst of all the rest of us. They live in the middle of TV. Yes, they are billionaires, but they live here. I suspect they too care about the conditions where they live just as much as each of us does.

The Developer very much deserves credit for maintaining our investment--our home's value--through his policies and business practices. I'll be much more worried about the future of TV when the Morse clan decides they would rather live in some other community, in some other state, in some other country. I, for one, am thoroughly delighted the Morses still live here. I'm OK with my neighbors being billionaires, as long they remain invested in what the place looks like.

[EdV]

Originally Posted by spk7951

It has been a few years since we attended the golf cart safety clinic but I seem to recall that the Sumter County Sheriffs office stated that they can not issue speeding tickets on Villages golf cart paths because they are considered private property?

The Sherriff’s department currently does not have traffic jurisdiction over the multi-modal paths because they are owned by the VCCDD and that district has not granted them the right to do so, which it could do if it wanted to.

But that has no bearing on the fact that those paths are available for use by the public for all the reasons I have stated before.

[justjim]

Originally Posted by Steve9930

He can and not only that but he can give you a DUI.

We keep mixing apples and oranges. First we talk about the "Trails" and then we talk about the streets with golf cart marked paths along side the streets.

Police patrol the speeds on the county streets but the multi-modal trails are a totally different story. The trails our maintained by the CDD'S---The Villages---our fees. A golf cart---unless licensed and Street Legal is not in a technical way Legal Transportation the same as a car---that is my point. You have to have a Drivers License to drive a Street Legal Cart and a car but you do not to drive a golf cart.

I have never met Morse's (and have no idea how smart they are) but we did meet The father and original founder Harold Schwartz---what a nice man he was to me and my wife. I would guess the family has some very smart lawyers because they can afford the best.

I don't know about anybody else but I am always a bit skeptical of people and "things" that are not transparent-----and there was no transparency in this situation regarding the so called "Berlin Wall" and that is really sad.