[JimJoe]

Originally Posted by Russ_Boston

They only inform you of the water feature if your land is on the water feature. Since the IRS issue is just a ? at this point there is no obligation since they can't really tell you anything.

Are you serious? The IRS issue affects every villager because their amenities fees and the amenities themselves are at issue and could be affected by a negative outcome. I am saying they should be informed, not that I am convinced YET they must be informed legally. All I know is that if I bought a house in TV and found out about the IRS issue afterwards, I would be upset that no one told me, especially if an adverse ruling significantly affected the amenities.
One simple question for you. After you first heard about it, did you take the time to become informed before you bought in TV. I think I know the answer and you know the reason you did.
JJ

[The Shadow]

Originally Posted by collie1228

Although I am very concerned about the IRS issue as it could keep me from buying when I plan to next year, I agree with Russ and don't see where the developer has an obligation to disclose anything - yet. As I understand it, the IRS sent three "Notices of Proposed Issues" in January 2009 challenging the tax-exempt status of the bonds. While there has been some exchange of information between the IRS and the issuer of the bonds, to my knowledge there hasn't been any formal accusations; only an offer by the IRS to settle, which the CDD rejected. If the IRS takes the issue to tax court (or to whatever formal venue the next step would would be), then there probably should be some disclosures made to prospective buyers. But not yet.

there hasn't been any formal accusations; only an offer by the IRS to settle

What?

Is that like saying you are going to jail for 5 years and by the way you are not accused of anything?

I give up, I’m going back to studying porn.

[Skybo]

Originally Posted by JimJoe

The IRS issue affects every villager because their amenities fees and the amenities themselves are at issue and could be affected by a negative outcome. JJ

Please explain to me how the amenities and/or the amenity fees might be affected. I’m not being argumentative...I'm really just trying to understand this.

[JimJoe]

Originally Posted by Skybo

Please explain to me how the amenities and/or the amenity fees might be affected. I’m not being argumentative...I'm really just trying to understand this.

As I understand it, the IRS is saying the bonds used by the district did not qualify as tax free bonds for various reasons. If the IRS prevails the district could be responsible for the loss of tax revenue on the bonds, penalties and possibly redeeming bonds... because they received the benefit of the lower cost of the bonds sold as tax free. If they have to pay the IRS it could be from the amenities fees or selling amenities because that is the source of their income and it was amenities that the bonds were used for. I am not aware of any other way the district could pay. I suppose it is possible the district could sue someone later to try to recoup their losses. If someone knows of another way the district could pay, please let me know.
jj

[CarGuys]

And so are about a zillion other people. I read the Article in the Orlando Paper. http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...1664810.column

Daaaaaa I'm still confused. Probably time for Admin to shut this mess down put it all to rest untill someone can research and POST the facts not feelings. Sorta like this- Lets see

1: We were audited
(Internal Revenue Service agent conducting the review of $355.4 million in outstanding bonds issued by the Village Center and the Sumter Landing community development )

2: IRS made Village mad

3: Village made IRS mad
Villagers have paid mucho money out of thir dues for legal fees to make IRS even Madder! (And it touched off a new set of skirmishes in what has become an expensive battle — already $209,000 spent in mostly lawyer fees)

5: We Post on and on for years and no one figures it out anyway.

(So, there you have it. Nobody's position has changed much, and the dispute is just humming along through the system.

Millions of dollars are still at stake, and the future for homeowners in The Villages is no more clear when this investigation started several years ago.)

This is starting to feel like a huge financial mess. And TV are right now paying for all the legal battles out of their pockets not the ones who started this mess.

[nitehawk]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

Who is Laura Richards??

Originally Posted by nitehawk

for all of you Laura Richards haters - if it were not for her original articles we would nothing if anything about the irs tax-exempt bond investigation - this is probably the first mention of the investigation in the daily sun. i just looked back at some of old post on Laura Rchards -- she is a villager hater - she is jealous - she is not a journalist - on an on - well i would like to thank Laura Richards - i dont think anyone would know there was an investigation before her article - more kool-aid mom

Originally Posted by Annabelle

Advogado, Taj44, Rubicon, Shadow, Leafpoker, and Kentucky Blue, thank you for sharing your thoughtful insightful and intelligent posts. I hope that you all will continue to keep those of us who do not live in TV abreast of the current events surrounding this matter. The IRS investigation is a serious issue and I will not even consider buying a home in TV until this issue has been resolved. For anyone unfamiliar with the IRS investigation please read Lauren Ritchie’s columns at the Orlando Sentinel (online). She has done a superb job of covering this story.

Annabelle,
PS Leafpoker, who the heck is Troy?!!!

I guess the quote "Who is Laura Richards??" was suppose to be a joke???
Where else do we learn about the investigation ??? Not the daily sun for sure

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by nitehawk

I guess the quote "Who is Laura Richards??" was suppose to be a joke???
Where else do we learn about the investigation ??? Not the daily sun for sure

Nitehawk.

The journalist for the Orlando Sentinel is Lauren Ritchie.

[Larry Wilson]

Originally Posted by Annabelle

Advogado, Taj44, Rubicon, Shadow, Leafpoker, and Kentucky Blue, thank you for sharing your thoughtful insightful and intelligent posts. I hope that you all will continue to keep those of us who do not live in TV abreast of the current events surrounding this matter. The IRS investigation is a serious issue and I will not even consider buying a home in TV until this issue has been resolved. For anyone unfamiliar with the IRS investigation please read Lauren Ritchie’s columns at the Orlando Sentinel (online). She has done a superb job of covering this story.

Annabelle,
PS Leafpoker, who the heck is Troy?!!!

Thanks for expressing some support for those posters.

[ilovetv]

Excellent post by Cabo35.....which I now see he has removed. The link he had there tells everything we need to know about Lauren Ritchie's motives and Trickle-Up Poverty "solution" she doesn't have the guts to say flat out is her goal.

It was obvious from the very first Sentinel article I read linked on TOTV, by Lauren Ritchie, that she has a giant political axe to grind......and is anti-business, anti-development and anti-anything a Villager--who worked all their life, paid their taxes, lived within their means, thinks they pay enough taxes already, and paid cash for their home--might say.

The link did not work when I clicked it in Cabo's post, but on the page where it says "Oops...article not found", there is a Search box to use. I found it by putting the tersm "Ritchie" and "hypocrite" in the search box (don't use quote marks). The article is from March, 2010. Here is the link again...see if it works.
http://lakecountygov.info/2010/03/31...e-hypocrite-4/

By the way, Lauren Ritchie and the writer of that column in the blog "Right side of the Lake" are lightyears apart in writing and communicating ability. It was an absolute treat to read the blog column writer's command of language and comprehension of concepts involved.

[RVRoadie]

A couple of things. First, what scandal. It is clear that the Florida Legislature passed laws to allow CDDs to qualify to sell tax free municiple bonds. Did the developer do it exactly right? Maybe, maybe not. A scandal, or a technical violation of a complex set of State and Federal laws.

Did the CDDs and VCDDs pay too much for the amenities? Maybe, maybe not. So what. The deal works and we get the best amenities in all of Florida for the lowest price of anything comparable. Add in all the defunct CDDs around the state, and things are looking pretty good here.

So, run some numbers. Worst case, about $400 million in bonds over 8 years at maybe 6% get disqualified. That is $192 million in total interest. Lost taxes to the IRS at 33% is $63 million. Make it $100 million with interest and penalties. Not sure how many homes in The Villages, buy say 85,000 at build out. That is about $1,200 per home. Worst case, which is not likely to happen.

With a $100 million tax bill, maybe someone will give Tax Masters a call.

[villagegolfer]

Originally Posted by ilovetv

Excellent post by Cabo35.....which I now see he has removed. The link he had there tells everything we need to know about Lauren Ritchie's motives and Trickle-Up Poverty "solution" she doesn't have the guts to say flat out is her goal.

It was obvious from the very first Sentinel article I read linked on TOTV, by Lauren Ritchie, that she has a giant political axe to grind......and is anti-business, anti-development and anti-anything a Villager--who worked all their life, paid their taxes, lived within their means, thinks they pay enough taxes already, and paid cash for their home--might say.

The link did not work when I clicked it in Cabo's post, but on the page where it says "Oops...article not found", there is a Search box to use. I found it by putting the tersm "Ritchie" and "hypocrite" in the search box (don't use quote marks). The article is from March, 2010. Here is the link again...see if it works.
http://lakecountygov.info/2010/03/31...e-hypocrite-4/

By the way, Lauren Ritchie and the writer of that column in the blog "Right side of the Lake" are lightyears apart in writing and communicating ability. It was an absolute treat to read the blog column writer's command of language and comprehension of concepts involved.

Thanks for the link ilovetv. I think it should be mandatory reading for all the Village bashers that post here at TOTV. (and everyone else, for that matter)

[misky]

Originally Posted by RVRoadie

A couple of things. First, what scandal. It is clear that the Florida Legislature passed laws to allow CDDs to qualify to sell tax free municiple bonds. Did the developer do it exactly right? Maybe, maybe not. A scandal, or a technical violation of a complex set of State and Federal laws.

Did the CDDs and VCDDs pay too much for the amenities? Maybe, maybe not. So what. The deal works and we get the best amenities in all of Florida for the lowest price of anything comparable. Add in all the defunct CDDs around the state, and things are looking pretty good here.

So, run some numbers. Worst case, about $400 million in bonds over 8 years at maybe 6% get disqualified. That is $192 million in total interest. Lost taxes to the IRS at 33% is $63 million. Make it $100 million with interest and penalties. Not sure how many homes in The Villages, buy say 85,000 at build out. That is about $1,200 per home. Worst case, which is not likely to happen.

With a $100 million tax bill, maybe someone will give Tax Masters a call.

Finally something that makes sense! I bought a home in 2010 knowing full well about this issue. I ran a quick #'s calculation also and realized it's not a significant # so I bought. And it will probably never happen and if it does, at $1,200, I would still buy.

[cabo35]

Here we go again with Lauren Ritchie. To her credit, she has stated that she is not a reporter.....she is a columnist unencumbered by the constraints of balance and objectivity. The "usual suspects" frequently cite her as a credible source for all things related to The Villages. Therein lies the rub. I respectfully disagree, especially in matters where important decisions are at stake. For balance, you should read the attached link that offers another perspective. The context has nothing to do with The Villages, but, stunningly, suggests a pattern and agenda based on anti-development and anti-big business advocacy. It is a sometimes tedious, long read, but offers eye-opening details you have not and will never see posted here by the usual suspects. With your indulgence, I will attempt to connect what may seem like abstract forays, to the dynamics of the IRS issue. Of course I am an amateur and it's just my opinion.

http://lakecountygov.info/2010/03/31...e-hypocrite-4/

For starters, the Lake County Government blog cited, attributes this revealing gem to Ritchie, "Amendment 4 would stop companies from swooping down in Lake County just to make a profit and it would encourage only local people to do business here."

Stop companies from swooping down? Only locals?

In an earlier post, I said, "For balance, I guess if I was born and raised here, I may have some resentment about what progress has taken away. A quiet, idyllic countryside dotted with watermelon patches, horse farms, cattle grazing peacefully and fishing holes that never heard the whine of an outboard motor. A lifestyle that insulates you from car, truck and traffic noises. A lifestyle that keeps you from the pollution of progress. Damn Walt Disney and Gary Morse."

Another interesting assertion in the story is as follows:

Finally, Lauren Ritchie’s actual bark doesn’t match her pen’s bite. Her presentation at the Chamber Alliance meeting was that of a mealy mouthed scriber who couldn’t put two reasonable arguments together. After the meeting, Alliance Members said that when Ritchie was asked to speak to the group, she asked if there was going to be a debate on Amendment #4. Ritchie was okay with a debate format, as long as she wasn’t debating Don Magruder, Chairman of Citizens for Better Government, L.L.C. After hearing the comment, Magruder said, “Lauren Ritchie hides behind innuendo and lies on most of her arguments. The reason she is scared of an honest debate with me is because her ideas are devoid of reason – but any place, any time she would like to debate – I welcome the opportunity.”

The author in some detail, describes Ritchie as an anti-development and anti-growth "zealot", a hypocrite and links her to political interests. You will have to read the details and draw your own conclusions. In fairness to Lauren, keep in mind both sides are driving agendas. This is hardball stuff.

The writer, no shrinking violet, says "Lauren Ritchie is so far out in the black hole of the universe that it's really hard to understand how she can write such nonsense. If you've ever questioned whether Ritchie tells the truth, then this confirms one real important fact - she's a liar."

Permit me to digress briefly as I recall a Ritchie hatchet headline. We Villagers are such a "greedy" lot.......according to our new best friend...Lauren Ritchie.

The headline story screamed, Greedy Villages fires first salvo in water war .....Commentary- LakefrontMarch 11, 2007|By Lauren Ritchie, Sentinel Columnist

Starting to see a pattern?

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...water-villages

Where is the balance in Ritchie's commentary? Where are the articles on the positive economical impacts The Villages have had on the region, the new schools, commerce, hospitals, jobs, and medical facilities that came with Villages development? Where are the articles about the wonderful volunteerism and charitable contributions Villagers, including so many of my friends and neighbors, have made to the benefit of Ritchie's "locals"? Have Ritchie's "locals" enjoyed the shopping and entertainment that is available to them? Where is the balance in her commentary?

I noted in an earlier post that "She (Ritchie) lost significant credibility with many when in an early article, she admonished with cavalier arrogance and unbridled presumptuousness, "And it is time for homeowners to worry less about their tee time and marvelous activities and more about their future property values and financial liability."

Give special attention to the headline below. Is it accurate and truthful or wishful thinking? Her admonishment is at the end.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...www.google.com

Like many others, I didn't work for fifty years, raise a family and serve my country to have Lauren Ritchie tell me what I should or should not worry about.

Back to the Lake County blog. Before I comment further, let me say that while professionally presented, this blog is just that, a blog of someone's opinion. Like Lauren's blog, it will never win a Pulitzer Prize for journalistic integrity and objectivity. As I previously stated, it should be viewed through the prism of skepticism. Objectivity needs to be factored into the equation and agendas need to recognized. However, what is noteworthy to me is the similarity in attack styles by the paper and its columnist. If you suspend belief briefly, replace the Lake County targets with the Villages and Morse, after a full careful read of the link, you may realize the attack tactics are eerily similar if not clones. Striking at least. The same anti-development and anti-growth disposition is evident. A thorough, patient read of the article with a little follow-up research reveals a lot.

Once again, "I cannot attest to the claims made by the article." What I do see are stunning similarities in attack styles that suggest and anti-business, anti-growth and anti-development agenda by a columnist who could have a biased interest on issues related to The Villages. Those agendas are arguable and stand or fall on their own merits.

I agree with those who hold that the IRS issue should be monitored. It would be helpful if there was more professional reporting and less agenda driven speculation on the subject......especially speculation that relies on commentary instead of facts.....and finally........that is the point of my excursion into what some may consider a hijack of the thread.

I respectfully request that before commenting, you read the articles in their entirety and make your own evaluations.

That said.....I have retreated to the bunker to brace for incoming. Yes...I have a rich, full life beyond the keyboard. This is what happens when your waiting for a contractor and your wife is out of town. I hope the new admin doesn't count keystrokes.

I also hope the links open properly.....I had a little trouble at first.

Have a great day in The Villages.

[The Great Fumar]

CABO 35..... What a great summation of the entire subject........probably the best I've read so far..
Keep up the good work and don't stay in your bunker to long as we need your analytical thoughts.

Keep your helmet on , I think INCOMING is immanent...

fumar

[Harry Gilbert]

Originally Posted by RVRoadie

A couple of things. First, what scandal. It is clear that the Florida Legislature passed laws to allow CDDs to qualify to sell tax free municiple bonds. Did the developer do it exactly right? Maybe, maybe not. A scandal, or a technical violation of a complex set of State and Federal laws.

Did the CDDs and VCDDs pay too much for the amenities? Maybe, maybe not. So what. The deal works and we get the best amenities in all of Florida for the lowest price of anything comparable. Add in all the defunct CDDs around the state, and things are looking pretty good here.

So, run some numbers. Worst case, about $400 million in bonds over 8 years at maybe 6% get disqualified. That is $192 million in total interest. Lost taxes to the IRS at 33% is $63 million. Make it $100 million with interest and penalties. Not sure how many homes in The Villages, buy say 85,000 at build out. That is about $1,200 per home. Worst case, which is not likely to happen.

With a $100 million tax bill, maybe someone will give Tax Masters a call.

The 2010 census shows 35,587 housing units in the villages.
http://www.ledgerdata.com/census/flo...ges-cdp/71625/
anyone know what the total buildout number is expected to be?