[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Kisusn

Perhaps if you were more open minded you would have understood what I was attempting to say. But I was happy to hear of your delightful cruise and all of the other people such as your self who participated.

As to an earlier message, yes, I was speaking sarcastically but I did not refer to anyone as an idiot simply because I did not agree with his/her opinion. I shall not utilize sarcasm again as apparently it flies over the heads of so many.

If you read the post again, I did not call you an idiot, I said your post was idiotic. HUGE DIFFERENCE. I'm sure out of 4000+ posts I've thrown some out there that were idiotic as well. Your sarcasm can be misinterpreted if your underlying position is not clear. Certainly, the same exact same post could have been made by someone who is as deeply committed to deaf rights as the plaintiffs.

[jkomoros]

Is this all part of the National Association of the Deaf vs Harvard and MIT lawsuit? Those schools both offered free online content and this Reuters article talks about the case and also the bad transcription in closed captioning: Lawsuits say Harvard, MIT webcasts leave out deaf Americans
| Reuters. This sounds suspiciously like what was mentioned in the case involving the Lifelong Learning Colleges. If The Villages case is a small subset of a bigger lawsuit against similar educational opportunities, it puts a whole other spin on this and may be why no one can get any sense of what these 32 specifically want as a resolution. What if they don't really want a simple resolution but want to prove a point nationally?

I firmly believe that if anyone had a legitimate requirement to take a few courses, most everyone here would understand and would have been happy to help find simple solutions. I am very afraid that this is NOT the case. If a very small group of people are using this as a platform for a larger movement, I find it tragic that the rest of our retirement community, along with the employees and teachers of the College, have to bear the brunt of their actions. According to the link to the case that has been posted earlier, they were asking for damages. Why ask for damages if you are a simple retiree just wanting to take a few classes with the rest of us? Why hire a cadre of big out of state lawyers? Because the College was associated with the charter school, their first priority is to the young students and not to the College. Tragic, tragic if we find out that a very few have pushed a private agenda only to prove a point on a larger stage.

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by Putt4Dough

DeafDeaf thread from 2011
Recreation Dept seeks National Accreditatio
read all the posts especially the last one

Thanks for the link, very interesting.

[jjdees]

If this guy Schwarz is a Villager, why doesn't he show up as a home owner in Sumter, Marion or Lake Counties?

[outahere]

Originally Posted by jjdees

If this guy Schwarz is a Villager, why doesn't he show up as a home owner in Sumter, Marion or Lake Counties?

His property may be deeded to a family trust that does not include his name in the name of the trust.

[TVMayor]

Originally Posted by jjdees

If this guy Schwarz is a Villager, why doesn't he show up as a home owner in Sumter, Marion or Lake Counties?

Schwarz Doris E & Louis J
2172 Blackville Dr

Parcel ID: D36A127

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by jjdees

If this guy Schwarz is a Villager, why doesn't he show up as a home owner in Sumter, Marion or Lake Counties?

There are earlier posts on this thread from people who know him, so yes, he is most likely one of us. That being the case, I think everyone needs to lay off the personal attacks on this gentleman. He may very well be a nice man, with the exception that he is oblivious to any collateral damage resulting from his "holy cause". The 2011 thread includes a post from someone who enjoyed a round of golf with him and even learned some ASL. That is why I wish he could post something that suggests his motivation is to be able to participate in LLLC classes, and not "if I can't have it , no one can" or a pure money grab. But I'm sure his lawyers have told him in no uncertain terms to clam up. Too bad, it's always good to hear both sides.

[John_W]

Louis Schwarz on his Twitter page does say, "he is deeply sadden that the Lifelong Learning College has chosen to retaliate against members of the deaf". He doesn't say anything about the other 18,000 that were effected.

Louis Schwarz (@DeafBowTie) | Twitter

I didn't read any comments on his Facebook page.

Louis Schwarz | Facebook

[Advogado]

Originally Posted by jjdees

If this guy Schwarz is a Villager, why doesn't he show up as a home owner in Sumter, Marion or Lake Counties?

He is listed in The Villages phone book. You can always call him and ask for his side of the story.

If people want to do something constructive to try to keep the LLC open: Instead of merely posting assorted thoughts, questions, and name-calling here (none of which will have any practical effect): Contact the plaintiffs, Janet Tutt (who represents the two CDD defendants and ought to be looking out for the welfare of all the residents, not just the interests of the Developer), and the Developer (who really controls the School and the LLC and whose motivation in shutting down the LLC is not at all clear). Ask, in their view, what it would take to settle the lawsuit and keep the LLC open and why more isn't being done to reach such a resolution. I am working along these lines myself, but more people contacting the relevant parties and Janet Tutt would be more effective.

FYI: An announcement on the College website reads: "The college has unfortunately been forced to close operations as of 12/31/16." There is no explanation as to exactly what "forced" the closure.

[Carla B]

Originally Posted by Putt4Dough

DeafDeaf thread from 2011

Recreation Dept seeks National Accreditatio

read all the posts especially the last one

If you read that entire thread re the Recreation Dept. you will know that this poster most certainly is Mr. Schwarz. He wants qualified, certified ASL interpreters. Despite repeated requests he never states what type of clubs he wants to join or how he proposes the Recreation Dept. pay for the expensive certified interpreters he demands.

[Leisha2]

I think an easy solution would have been for The Villages to pay for an interpreter in any class a deaf person took. If no deaf people were attending, no interpreter needed. I don't believe there would have been deaf people in that many classes. That wouldn't have cost over 1 mil as the Villages stated in its case.

[BK001]

I copied this thought provoking quote directly from a comment made on Mr. Schwarz' facebook page Louis Schwarz | Facebook


"My name is Jim Wilson and I live in the Village of Hadley. I worked for 39 years (1970 – 2009) for the National Technical Institute for the Deaf (NTID) at the Rochester Institute of Technology (RIT). NTID is a federally funded college (Dept of Education) at a private university (RIT). I was a Computer Systems Analyst, and I also was an Adjunct Instructor in Computer Courses to Deaf Students. During my 39 years I (as well as others) were tasked with developing scheduling systems for the 150+ Professional Sign Language Interpreters providing services to 1,300+ students. We tried 4 times and never succeeded. It is NOT an easy task. I feel qualified to talk about this subject. The issues I see posing the LLC are logistics, availability and cost.

Logistics: How many Sign Language Interpreters (SLI) are needed at any given time? When do you know this? What happens if you contract for a SLI and the “student” decides he/she no longer wants to attend? How can you possibly meet the demand when it is a moving target?

Availability: How many qualified SLI are in the local area (30 – 45 minute commute)? As more demand is placed, more SLI will have to come from Orlando, Ocala, Gainesville, and beyond. Now, in addition to the cost of the SLI, you have to include the cost and time for travel. Are there enough SLI to meet the needs at a REASONABLE cost? “Free” SLI typically will only do a one-time events and not an ongoing scheduled “course”.

Cost: The biggest issue is the unknown costs. Since you don’t know how many people will require the service, when they need it, and if they will continue to the end of the “course” you have NO IDEA how much it will cost and how to budget for it. What is done if a scheduled SLI is sick, has a family emergency, etc? Are there substitute SLI available? Who will manage this? That is another cost, management of the needs of handicapped individuals. The LLC is a not-for-profit, self sustaining organization. How do they budget this? Is $1 more per student enough? $2? $3? Who knows? I see this as the biggest reason that LLC closed; the UNKNOWN! If they lost the lawsuit they could have to come up with an unknown amount of money with no source of income.

Do I feel that this could be resolved? YES, but not while the LLC has the Sword of Damocles hanging over them. The plaintiffs need to drop the lawsuit and WORK with the LLC to find solutions that both sides feel would work. The Deaf Community CANNOT expect the LLC to do everything. The Deaf Community MUST do some of the work. Otherwise, EVERYONE loses, except for the lawyers."

[stan the man]

Originally Posted by TVMayor

Schwarz Doris E & Louis J
2172 Blackville Dr

Parcel ID: D36A127

The home may be listed under a temple or a church

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Leisha2

I think an easy solution would have been for The Villages to pay for an interpreter in any class a deaf person took. If no deaf people were attending, no interpreter needed. I don't believe there would have been deaf people in that many classes. That wouldn't have cost over 1 mil as the Villages stated in its case.

Agree. Let's do some (speculative) math:
If we get the plaintiffs to agree that no person who needs an interpreter takes no more than 3 classes/semester----which I doubt the majority of them would do anyway, then:

3 x 32==max 96 classes that need ASL. reduce this by classes with more than 1 deaf person and say 50% enrollments, so 50 classes. ASL interpreter: About $80/hr plus $30/hr travel time--assume max 1 hr each way so $220/class, average 2 hr class. Classes about 8 weeks = 220x8x50=$88,000. Since there were 18,000 scheduled to take classes next semester, = $4.80 fee each. Alternatively, $176,000/yr divided by 50,000 homes div by 12 = 30 cent/month additional amenity fee. Now, I don't have exact numbers but clearly the above estimate won't be off by more than a factor of 2, maybe 3, so make that 90 cents additional amenity fee. Clearly, the cost can easily be met----as long as the plaintiffs do not insist on "punitive damages".

[Carla B]

Originally Posted by Leisha2

I think an easy solution would have been for The Villages to pay for an interpreter in any class a deaf person took. If no deaf people were attending, no interpreter needed. I don't believe there would have been deaf people in that many classes. That wouldn't have cost over 1 mil as the Villages stated in its case.

I assume that solution refers to the cost of providing interpreters for classes given by the Lifelong Learning College. But Schwarz et al complained about the Recreation Dept. RLGs (clubs), and alleged discrimination under Title II of the ADA, and the Fair Housing Act, and Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act against the VCCDD and SLCDD. The judge agreed with the Districts and granted their Motions of Summary Judgment in favor of the Defendants under the ADA and the Fair Housing Act, but denied in part the motion under the Rehabilitation Act because the school corporation receives some funding from the Dept. of Education and the Dept. of Agriculture for the K-12 programs. The LLC proved it is self-supporting through class fees and does not share in any other funding. However it didn't satisfy the court that providing interpreters or finding another acceptable option would create an undue financial hardship. So, why would Schwarz et al, after winning this part of the case, launch an APPEAL, unless they still wanted to go after the Districts and the RLGs (clubs)?

I know one club that collects around $125. per year to cover costs. Say a plaintiff wanted to attend and required an interpreter at $100 per meeting for 22 meetings. Add $2200 to the costs and that is unsustainable. Mr. Schwarz claims he is a financial advisor, as well as an activist for the deaf, so I'd like to hear what solution he proposes?