[Madelaine Amee]

Originally Posted by Kisusn

How dare the handicapped think they are as good or entitled as the rest of us! Those deplorables need to be shipped out of state. The ADA is just like the Right to Vote law, completely not needed.

... and how DARE you come on this site with that attitude!
We have just come off a 12 day cruise. Among the passengers were two young blind people with their dogs (where do they relieve themselves at sea and who cleans up after them), dozens of people in wheel chairs that need to be helped on and off the ship whenever they go ashore, more people than we could count on electric riders to help them get around - and the rest of us offered our assistance to these disabled people in order that they could enjoy their vacation too.

Don't preach to us about being disabled, there are very few people in this world that cannot reach out and touch a relative with a disability.

[Putt4Dough]

Originally Posted by CWGUY

Have we figured out if DeafDeaf is Mr. Schwarz? I find it strange he was on TOTV today and did NOT post anything!


IMHO the man hates the world. DeafDeaf page: https://www.talkofthevillages.com/fo...eafdeaf-15127/

picture of Mr. Schwarz is in Post #106 of this thread.

Yes in the thread CathieI links, DeafDeaf has the last post in which he states he is a Deaf advocate etc so yeah that is probably Schwarz and he has probably checking out this tread today.

What is weird is that everyone in that thread who responded kept asking DeafDeaf what exactly would make him happy and he never really answers the question, but it appears that he thinks that profession paid sign language interpreters should be available for every LLC class. That's what he thinks is a reasonable accommodation. Not sure how many classes there are per day but obviously would cost quite a bit of money.

[Putt4Dough]

DeafDeaf thread from 2011

Recreation Dept seeks National Accreditatio

read all the posts especially the last one

[JC and John]

Originally Posted by Bonnevie

the link above is interesting because it actually gives figures for what a plaintiff can ask for in Calif. $1000 for each time they were unable to avail themselves of the services. So if the LLC has 200 courses per semester and 3 semesters a year x number of years plaintiff has been a resident, then if the same is similar in Florida, it would be an astronomical amount for each plaintiff. Maybe we need to contact the Orlando paper to do an in depth article on what's going on since we can get no information from here.

Agree with contacting Orlando paper. Maybe they can weed through all the legalese, BS, and stir up the truth.

Also agree with other posters regarding 60 Minutes program last night. What I find (from the program) absolutely unfair is that a business doesn't have to have any customer complaints about an ADA issue for the business owner to be sued by some lawyer who just happens to notice an infraction and worse yet, recruit handicapped individuals to be plaintiffs!

[Bonnevie]

it's interesting but if you read about deaf culture, those that believe that Deaf with a capital D denotes someone who feels that deafness is a distinct culture, with it's own language. They consider English not their native language which is one reason they resist speech to text as a solution. one site even said this:The term “hearing-impaired” is seen even more negatively because that says there is something wrong with being Deaf (which is the complete opposite of what Deaf people believe!) Most hearing people believe that deafness is a handicap. But, au contraire! It indeed, is not. Deaf people can do everything except hear. Everything! Deafness is not a handicap.

so if one believes that, then asking for an interpreter is akin to someone who only speaks French to demand an interpreter. Apparently, it's a handicap when it's beneficial.

It's the hypocrisy of all this that bothers me. I think anyone here would have been desirous of having this settled reasonably to accommodate our fellow Villagers. but refusing to consider any concession at all because the law is on your side, no matter the consequences, and demanding money is being as thoughtless to others as we have been accused of being.

I hate all this because I don't want to be angry and resentful to anyone and yet I find myself feeling that.

Nothing fuels this more than the lack of information we've been given by both sides in this dispute. All we have are the consequences. Please everyone, give us more information.

[PennBF]

Given the prior writers point is there a cause to institute a counter lawsuit defending the Villages position? It is hard to get any relief when you are arguing a case without the appropriate and strong legal counsel.

[bbbbbb]

[QUOTE=villagetinker;1328437]HenryK, you beat me to the list, thank you.

It is too bad that there was no middle ground on this, for example, having a few sign language personnel available for classes IF REQUESTED, or something similar. I know my wife is very disappointed as she had just signed up for the second and third classes for some art classes. I had looked at several classes, and was considering teaching 1 or 2 classes, OH WELL.


Response to all of this. Thanks all for your input here on TOTV. OK, I was teaching Engineering Classes in California. Not to toot my own horn but consider this: There would always be a Sign Person in the room during certain lectures. For each class, I would make up "Extra Info" Sheets. This meant, hints on all homework, a short clarification of all lectures on a separate piece of paper, I would give those to the Interpreter and also file them in a "Read Only Folder" at the library, any student could read them, but the impaired students always thanked me for them. My office hours were open extra time for any impaired student and the Interpreter. My syllabus clearly defined every homework assignment, every quiz and every test. The syllabus was handed out first day of class, to the student(s) and to the Interpreter and I loaned a text on the subject to the Interpreter. I assure you this worked fine. One student from Mexico assured me his family were very high level in Soltillo Coahuila and he insisted that I keep his address and offered me to visit and really have a good time with my wife at their home, anytime. I still have that address but did not go there. This was not a bribe, he did this only after final grades were submitted. I had several ADA students and in fact the Dean sort of edged them to me for their coursework. You can make this work, I do believe.

bbbbbb

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by PennBF

Given the prior writers point is there a cause to institute a counter lawsuit defending the Villages position? It is hard to get any relief when you are arguing a case without the appropriate and strong legal counsel.

I tend to be an optimist, so here it goes: Wouldn't it be better for everyone if we could leave the lawyers and the media out of all this. Get 3 plaintiffs, 3 representatives of the LLLC and 3 from the VCDDs, and 3 residents who have taken multiple courses at the LLLC together and have a civilized discussion and try to find a solution. IF the plaintiffs are still as reasonable as they portrayed themselves in the 2011 thread, and IF the VCS is still willing to provide reasonable accommodations, it could work.

That being said, I doubt any of the lawyers involved would ever consider letting their clients participate. But if this is truly about fair access to activities and what is best for the community, the WHOLE community, then screw the lawyers and do the right thing

[Kisusn]

Originally Posted by Madelaine Amee

... and how DARE you come on this site with that attitude!
We have just come off a 12 day cruise. Among the passengers were two young blind people with their dogs (where do they relieve themselves at sea and who cleans up after them), dozens of people in wheel chairs that need to be helped on and off the ship whenever they go ashore, more people than we could count on electric riders to help them get around - and the rest of us offered our assistance to these disabled people in order that they could enjoy their vacation too.

Don't preach to us about being disabled, there are very few people in this world that cannot reach out and touch a relative with a disability.

Perhaps if you were more open minded you would have understood what I was attempting to say. But I was happy to hear of your delightful cruise and all of the other people such as your self who participated.

As to an earlier message, yes, I was speaking sarcastically but I did not refer to anyone as an idiot simply because I did not agree with his/her opinion. I shall not utilize sarcasm again as apparently it flies over the heads of so many.

[mabreyjk]

Originally Posted by Codysmom

So very disappointed to read in today's paper about the Learning Center shutting its door because of a lawsuit. Big loss for many of us.

I agree .. so few take so much away from the many. I wonder if those in the law suit have any idea the animosity and deprivation of great learning opportunities that they have created?
Being a Village resident, I know that The Villages make every attempt to accommodate everyone.

[TexaninVA]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

I tend to be an optimist, so here it goes: Wouldn't it be better for everyone if we could leave the lawyers and the media out of all this. Get 3 plaintiffs, 3 representatives of the LLLC and 3 from the VCDDs, and 3 residents who have taken multiple courses at the LLLC together and have a civilized discussion and try to find a solution. IF the plaintiffs are still as reasonable as they portrayed themselves in the 2011 thread, and IF the VCS is still willing to provide reasonable accommodations, it could work.

That being said, I doubt any of the lawyers involved would ever consider letting their clients participate. But if this is truly about fair access to activities and what is best for the community, the WHOLE community, then screw the lawyers and do the right thing

I like optimism as much as the next person, but I think your proposed solution, while perhaps noble, is unrealistic. It won't work.

Some type of legal representation, and in line with what PennBF suggests, is now needed to defend the interests of 120,000 people. I also think it's now up to us, not the Developer, to take action. I suggest the POA but there may be other ways to better achieve two objectives.

The two objectives are: 1) restoration or creation of LLLC in some form or fashion ...someone will have to take the lead to run with this but I'm sure will get lots of offer of help, and 2) legal counsel hired to provide protection of the RLGs, Clubs etc from future legal threats from disaffected people, while working out reasonable accommodations in accordance with the law and, hopefully, common sense. (the latter may be a stretch).

[Jdmiata]

Hopefully the POA will enter the fray.( if they haven't already )

[Retiring]

It may have already been said somewhere in the previous 430 posts but the Schwarz lawsuit has the potential of forever changing The Villages. The retired lawyers on this forum can shed some light on the theory that as the college goes so does the 2500 clubs.

If a club can afford to have a deaf interpreter at each meeting, they might live. But the other 2490 clubs will go the way of the dinosaur. No deaf interpreter standing next to the bands at the squares will probably lead to their extinction as well.

I don’t golf. My main, or only, reason for a TV retirement is the clubs, allowing me to live the active lifestyle I seek. I will take a step back and wait for Mr. Schwarz’s next move against The Villages before I move forward with a lot reservation.

[Muddykatchen]

I know the Villages Sun keeps "bad" news away from us, but why were we not aware of this while it was happening?!!! We needed the scoop on this throughout. Some of us have friends with hearing disabilities and might have offered suggestions other than CLOSING THE SCHOOL! How is that going to cure a problem? I too will sincerely miss the LLLC. We need more information because I now fear discrimination against those hearing impaired because of this.

[donsimson]

It seems that after 8 years and no satisfaction to Mr Schwarz,and company,
I feel he is not being "Reasonable" in what his definition of Reasonable Accommodation means. If he is so sorry the LLC had to close, he should have been aware of " Be careful of What you ask for" you might not like the answer. Now we all have to suffer in The friendliest Community in Florida.