[jrref]

Originally Posted by Jameson

What evidence is there to prove or disprove if they work? Often there is a storm in the middle of the night (last night for instance) when I woke up hearing a loud crack of lightning very close. Apparently no homes burned down, no sirens. Quite a few of the homes in my area do have lightning systems so maybe one was stuck but the system worked. Unless there is a witness to a direct strike how do we really know? I imagine over the years at least a few people in TV must have witnessed one of these events.

You are absolutely correct. When lightning strikes anything, home, tree, ground, etc, meaning cloud to ground strike, we always hear a loud bang depending on how close it is to our house. But if it hits an object we usually see a fire and that tells us what happened. On the other hand if your home had a LPS for example, and lightning hit and was safely shunted to ground, unless you were actually standing outside your house at that moment, you would not know what actually happened. The Villages Lightning Study Group has I believe 16 documented cases of homes that the owners believed were hit by lightning. From one we have the damaged lightning rod, and in the others there was some evidence of the grounding cable getting hot and scortching a bush branch touching the wire.

[spinner1001]

Originally Posted by jrref

The Villages Lightning Study Group did do research on this type of device and the data is inconclusive on if it actually works.

Too little data exist to have reliable evidence about the effect size of lightning protection systems. Controlled experiments are impractical because lightning strikes on structures are too infrequent and random. Collecting quality data would be very costly. Anecdotes are not data.

All one has is theory and common sense about the effect of LPS. Then the personal decision whether paying for a LPS is worth it is — personal.

[jrref]

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy

your paragraph #3, FUD bias as its not related to points about strike versus damage prevention systems, but the results of damage when hit.

It's not FUD bias. The point I was trying to make is regardless of what anyone thinks about lightning protection systems and their effectiveness, when your home gets struck by a significant strike and causes major damage to your home, it has the potential to be a life changing event. At some of our presentations, homeowners in the Villages who's homes have been struck by lightning come and share their experiences. Just relaying the common post strike experiences most of these people have.

[spinner1001]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

LPS will NOT prevent a strike.

If you have a LPS & you have a strike, you will have damage.

Key word: Prevent.

‘Prevent’ and ‘lowers risk’ are not the same.

[DonnaNi4os]

About a year ago my neighbor’s ac was struck by lightning, knocking out the electric items in the garage. Surprisingly the house next door was unaffected by a surge. Another person in our neighborhood had her fountain struck and it damaged the front of her house. Surprisingly it did not hit the highest point of either home. That is baffling to me as I always thought that lightning hit the tallest things. As far as I can see, only one neighbor has a lightning rod installed but there are many flag poles which I would imagine attract lightning. Hmmm

[jrref]

Originally Posted by spinner1001

Too little data exist to have reliable evidence about the effect size of lightning protection systems. Controlled experiments are impractical because lightning strikes on structures are too infrequent and random. Collecting quality data would be very costly. Anecdotes are not data.

All one has is theory and common sense about the effect of LPS. Then the personal decision whether paying for a LPS is worth it is — personal.

Actually, much is known about lightning and the effectiveness of lightning protection systems.

One of the misconceptions is that lightning protection systems do not work. They have proven effective for over 200 years and they do work if they are designed, installed, and maintained according to the National Fire Protection Association-780, Standard for the Installation of Lightning Protection Systems, 2023 Edition. The Principles of Lightning Protection are discussed in Annex B.

Another reference is The Art & Science of Lightning Protection Systems, by Dr. Martin Uman, from the University of Florida who has been studying lightning for over four decades.

Also over the years there have been may studies that have proven the advocacy of LPS. One such study was conducted at the University of Florida's International Center for Lightning Research & Testing at Camp Blanding.

There are many other references and data.

As far as the newer systems which try and prevent a lightning strike, as some have commented, yes these devices are currently installed and being evaluated for their effectiveness. NASA has an elaborate setup at the cape.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

LPS will NOT prevent a strike.

LPS will not DRAW a strike either. LPS are there to provide protection in case a strike occurs.

If you have a LPS & you have a strike, you will have damage.

"Will have damage"? Is that speaking from experience or skepticism? Is the damage that "will" occur when lightning strikes a house with an LPS of the same magnitude as the damage that occurs when lightning strikes a house without an LPS?

There is an article from 2021 in the newspaper that shall not be named with the statement, "Over a dozen Villagers, with an LPS, have reported that their home was struck by lightning and in no case was there any fire or structural damage." No, that doesn't say there was no damage at all but I will take some singed shingles or burnt rods over the hole in the roof that was recently pictured in the same paper.

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

LPS will not DRAW a strike either. LPS are there to provide protection in case a strike occurs.



"Will have damage"? Is that speaking from experience or skepticism? Is the damage that "will" occur when lightning strikes a house with an LPS of the same magnitude as the damage that occurs when lightning strikes a house without an LPS?

There is an article from 2021 in the newspaper that shall not be named with the statement, "Over a dozen Villagers, with an LPS, have reported that their home was struck by lightning and in no case was there any fire or structural damage." No, that doesn't say there was no damage at all but I will take some singed shingles or burnt rods over the hole in the roof that was recently pictured in the same paper.

Never said it will draw.

Never mentioned magnitude.

[jrref]

Originally Posted by huge-pigeons

There are many ways that lightning can damage your home and it doesn’t have to be a direct strike, and most aren’t direct hits. Right now, my friend that lives 1/2 mile away from the home that got hit with lightning, his internet service has been out since then and his neighbors had their TVs destroyed. Again all explainable.

Let’s ignore the direct hit, this is self explanatory, get lightning spikes installed on your house.
Power surges are very common and can damage equipment in your house so a whole house surge suppressor will help eliminate these surges.
The 3rd issue is something nobody addresses and that’s the copper cable coming into your home from a network or cable tv provider, which nobody suppresses. Every device that is connected to this copper cables is susceptible to a surge and will be damaged. Most of my surge suppressor indoor units have a rg6 connection to eliminate any surges.
There are many stories on lightning hitting a tree then having the voltage go down the tree trunk, hitting the power lines and then the neighbors experience a surge which damages their indoor appliances

Thanks for this good points. What you are describing is an "Induced power surge" as a result of a lightning strike. As you correctly state, this happens way more frequently than damage from direct strikes to property. It's just not discussed and reported because it's not as sensational to the news outlets as someone having a huge hole punched in their roof or the whole house totally destroyed by fire as happened in Linden Village last year. You mainly hear about these events from your neighbors at local gatherings, etc.. You are also correct in that most induced power surges travel into your home through the cable and or telephone lines and or your irregation system. If you have cable, there are devices you can buy on Amazon that will protect your home from these surges. With Fiber internet service this isn't a concern becasue no copper wiring there. Unfortunately, I don't know of a device that will protect intrusions from the irregation system.

As one of the engineers in the Villages Lightning Study group I focus on Power Surge Protection. To add to your very accurate comments, here is what we say about induced power surges. I've posted this response several times when this topic comes up.

>>>>
When lightning strikes near your home you may get hit by an "induced“ surge which frequently trips circuit breakers, especially freezers and door openers in your garage but depending on the intensity can damage your HVAC system, inside and out, all your appliances, electronic equipment, pool and spa equipment, etc.. Surge protection is a layered system. There is a surge protector you can purchase or rent from your electric company mounted on the electrical meter as discussed here in this thread, which will protect you against surges coming in from the power lines. This happens statistically 20% of the time. The electric company has a sophisticated surge and grounding system to protect from this type of event and because most power surges don't come into your home from the utility, many who have this device still report surge damage in their home and the surge protector at the meter shows no sign of a surge. In addition to the surge protector at your electrical meter you can install what is called a "whole house surge protector". There are many but the Eaton Ultra is one of the more affordable and effective ones that's commonly installed by most electrical companies such as Pikes and Lenhart. This surge protector is mounted at your electrical circuit breaker box. Because it’s located at the breaker box the other 80% of the power surges you can get such as at the outside HVAC unit, pool, spa, outside lighting, etc., will be shunted by this device at the circuit breaker box and reduce and or eliminate the surge from spreading to the rest of the circuits in your home. Because surges are so fast, the surge protector has to be as close to the source as possible to be effective. The surge protector mounted on the electrical meter can help, but it's not designed to shunt these other types of induced surges. Its sole purpose is to reduce large surges coming from the power lines or surges induced into the power lines coming to your home so the rest of the surge protectors in your home can handle the level of the surge that remains. It can also shunt power surges origination from the rest of your electrical system but not to a low enough level for total protection. This is why their warranty doesn't cover any device with an electronic board. The "whole house" surge protector mounted in your circuit breaker box will protect your appliances, washer dryer and all other devices that are hard wired such as the HVAC air handler and your electric hot water heater because it's designed to shunt surges to either eliminate them or shunt them to a low enough level that your devices or other surge protection can handle the surge. The final protection are the surge protection power strips, plug-in or point of use surge protectors which you install at your TVs, computers and any other sensitive electrical equipment. These devices will shunt and protect your equipment form any remaining surges that get through your meter or whole house surge protector. If you want to go further you can install point of use surge protector outlets or plug-in protectors for your microwave, dishwasher, garage door openers, etc. and or hard-wired surge protectors at you outside HVAC unit, pool and spa equipment.
To summarize, Surge Protection is a layered system. You want to install surge protectors to reduce and or eliminate the power surge so by the time an initally large surge reaches your home devices it's small enough for the point of use surge protector to handle it. Damage from power surges is covered in your homeowner’s insurance but you still have to pay the deductible and deal with replacing all the damaged devices. We live in the lightning capital of the USA so investing in surge protection is probably a wise investment but like insurance, it depends on your tolerance to risk. Most of us have at least $1,000 deductible on our homeowner’s insurance which more than pays for the surge protection I discussed here. At the end of the day, you need to look at what it will cost to install a surge protection system, at a minimum installing something like the Eaton surge protector in your circuit breaker panel and point of use surge protectors at your TV, computer and other sensitive devices, vs your tolerance for risk. Eventhough your insurance will cover devices destroyed by power surges in your home, you will have the inconvenience of dealing with the insurance company, having to replace everything that was destroyed and probably get an increase in your insurance premium at your next renewal.
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[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by DonnaNi4os

About a year ago my neighbor’s ac was struck by lightning, knocking out the electric items in the garage. Surprisingly the house next door was unaffected by a surge. Another person in our neighborhood had her fountain struck and it damaged the front of her house. Surprisingly it did not hit the highest point of either home. That is baffling to me as I always thought that lightning hit the tallest things. As far as I can see, only one neighbor has a lightning rod installed but there are many flag poles which I would imagine attract lightning. Hmmm

In reading about this topic when it came up last year, I came across a description of LPS design that used the concept of a rolling ball. The idea is that lightning doesn't come from the clouds directly to the ground in one arc, instead it makes several jumps of about 50m until it reaches ground.

At some point it will have reached close to the ground. From there, it will "look" for the easiest path to the ground that is 50m-100m away. If the top of the flagpole is closer than the fountain then it will go to the fountain. If the tree in the front yard is closer than the peak of the house then it will go to the tree. It doesn't go to the tallest thing around, it goes to the tallest thing within 50m to 100m.

Rather than thinking of flagpoles and lightning rods as things that attract lightning, think of them as the highest points within 50m. One flagpole in front of the house will not protect the back of the house. One lightning rod on the roof will not protect the entire roof. That's why an LPS system will have several rods on the peaks of a house.

[Pennyt]

Lightning struck a SECO light pole in front of our house some time ago. The bolt ran through the pole and then through the ground to our Sylvester palm tree in the front yard. The tree died within a few weeks, and it cost us over a thousand dollars to have it removed and replaced. Insurance covered about $500. The strike also took out our thermostat and computer printer. This was not a direct hit on our house. Lightning strikes can travel through the ground apparently.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

Never said it will draw.

Never mentioned magnitude.

Sometimes size does matter. In the case of a home getting hit by lightning with and without an LPS, size matters a great deal.

[Altavia]

Originally Posted by jrref

You are absolutely correct. When lightning strikes anything, home, tree, ground, etc, meaning cloud to ground strike, we always hear a loud bang depending on how close it is to our house. But if it hits an object we usually see a fire and that tells us what happened. On the other hand if your home had a LPS for example, and lightning hit and was safely shunted to ground, unless you were actually standing outside your house at that moment, you would not know what actually happened. The Villages Lightning Study Group has I believe 16 documented cases of homes that the owners believed were hit by lightning. From one we have the damaged lightning rod, and in the others there was some evidence of the grounding cable getting hot and scortching a bush branch touching the wire.

Very interesting, 16 homes over how many years?

Did these protected home have any induced damage from the EMP?

You probably have better data. But assuming 70,000 homes in the Villages, and 7 home strikes a year, risk is in the 1/10,000 range?

Appreciate the knowledge you are sharing.

[jrref]

Originally Posted by MidWestIA

My friend had a lightning rod it got hit and started a fire in the attic

Nothing man made is 100% effective but in addition if the LPS was not installed properly it may not work.

When a home is hit here in the Villages and it's a spectactular event, many homeowners see getting hit by lightning may be more of a reality here in the Villages and start getting estimates for a system. Unfortunately, there are many private individuals who are not UL certrified and trained by the Lightning Protection Institue to install these systems and do it incorrectly. They usually go door-to-door in these Villages soliciting work after a major strike.

If you had a lightning protection system installed by A1 Lightning Protection or Triangle Lightning Protection Systems, both UL Certified and trained and have a long positive history of installing these systems here in the Villages, both residential and commercial, then we would like to know about it and that would be a topic of discussion to see what actually happened. Unfortunately this industry is not regulated so you need to make sure whomever you hire is UL Certified and trained. A1 and Triangle have done work here in the Villages for many years and both participate in many activities and presentation in the Villages.

[Bill14564]

Many people talking about lightning strikes saying the odds are low, it won't happen to me, it won't be that bad, my home insurance will cover it, an LPS is expensive and won't prevent a strike anyway, etc.

Here's another way to think about it.

I have paid tens of thousands of dollars for homeowners insurance over the years and made only one claim. It was about 30 years ago and it was for damage from a lightning strike.

I have paid tens of thousands of dollars for car insurance over the years and can remember only two claims and one of those was for a broken windshield.

I have paid tens of thousands of dollars for health insurance over the years and other than regular doctor and dentist visits I have used very little of that.

A one-time $3,000 investment for an LPS to minimize the chance of being displaced by significant lightning damage seems like a much better deal than any of the other insurances I buy.

(DISCLAIMER: I do not actually have an LPS - I need to do something about that)