[Blueblaze]

The beauty of the "white cross" controversy is that it provides a simple way for new arrivals to identify laid-back, friendly neighborhoods where hateful neighbors don't seek out ways to dominate and annoy everyone close to them. If the idea of the "Friendly Hometown" appeals to you, then choose a neighborhood where the spirit of the rules is observed with neatly trimmed lawns and attractive landscaping, but nobody cares if you think a pink flamingo in your garden is the height of style -- or even if you stick a little 8" white cross in the bushes to advertise your religion.

On the other hand, the lack of "white crosses", flags, trees, or other decorations identifies a neighborhood where the residents are militant about rules and conformity. So if your lifelong dream is to have or be a Stepford Wife, you, too, can have the retirement of your dreams in The Villages!

[Maker]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

Placing "white crosses" is not speech, in case you haven't noticed .... it's a "display". "Speech" is generally verbal.

& even if you have some constitutional right to say whatever you think you should be able to speak, you signed away that right, when you bought a home in TV.

If you prefer to exercise your supposed "right of free speech", perhaps you should dress yourself up as a "little white cross", stand on your front porch and scream as loud as you're able ... "I am a little white cross".

Supreme Court disagrees with that conclusion. Have ruled that speech also includes things that do not have words. Flags are a prime example. Also signs and symbols. The KFC chicken bucket, Walmart's "*", and so on. Also ruled that the content of any type of speech cannot be used as a basis of any restriction, such as a political sign time limits.
There are additional restrictions where government cannot restrict religion.
So the white crosses are both religious, and a symbol. Any restrictions are illegal and unconstitutional.

Anyone who provides examples of similar things that "would you approve of that" ... OR "if this is allowed, where does it end" ... Everybody has the constitutional right to freedom of speech. Those rights cannot be restricted or limited. If someone agreed to limits in the past that can be revoked at any time.
Disagree? Change the constitution. Until that happens, enjoy our freedoms.

[Rainger99]

Originally Posted by Maker

Supreme Court disagrees with that conclusion. Have ruled that speech also includes things that do not have words. Flags are a prime example. Also signs and symbols. The KFC chicken bucket, Walmart's "*", and so on. Also ruled that the content of any type of speech cannot be used as a basis of any restriction, such as a political sign time limits.
There are additional restrictions where government cannot restrict religion.
So the white crosses are both religious, and a symbol. Any restrictions are illegal and unconstitutional.

Anyone who provides examples of similar things that "would you approve of that" ... OR "if this is allowed, where does it end" ... Everybody has the constitutional right to freedom of speech. Those rights cannot be restricted or limited. If someone agreed to limits in the past that can be revoked at any time.
Disagree? Change the constitution. Until that happens, enjoy our freedoms.

Who enforces the deed restrictions? If it is the government, they might be limited.

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

If the Villages allows the crosses and makes the exception, it opens up the possibility that anyone against it, will retaliate by putting up religious symbols that are known to be offensive.

The pagan symbol. The Church of Satan symbol. The Muslim symbol. For those antisemites in the room, the Star of David. Buddha, faeries, a yin/yang statuette, shinto, confuscian, the swastika (which was originally a religious symbol), the baha'i faith symbol, or hey how about the ancient Egyptian god Min, who is most appropriately depicted as having a HUGE phallus?

If you root for the white crosses, you MUST also root for all the above - and more. If you have a problem with any of the above, then you must root against the white crosses.

"Religious freedom" applies to all religions. It's either allowed to be expressed on the lawn, or it isn't.

So, let me see if I understand. Those who say (religiously or politically) " my way or the highway" are expressing un-American sentiments. 🫠 Well, fancy that!

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by Caymus

How other does this happen outside of The Villages in a typical suburban US town? Besides you, who is living in fear that it could happen?

Probably everyone who realizes that freedom isn't free and that it can happen here. 🫥😐

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by Maker

Supreme Court disagrees with that conclusion. Have ruled that speech also includes things that do not have words. Flags are a prime example. Also signs and symbols. The KFC chicken bucket, Walmart's "*", and so on. Also ruled that the content of any type of speech cannot be used as a basis of any restriction, such as a political sign time limits.
There are additional restrictions where government cannot restrict religion.
So the white crosses are both religious, and a symbol. Any restrictions are illegal and unconstitutional.

Anyone who provides examples of similar things that "would you approve of that" ... OR "if this is allowed, where does it end" ... Everybody has the constitutional right to freedom of speech. Those rights cannot be restricted or limited. If someone agreed to limits in the past that can be revoked at any time.
Disagree? Change the constitution. Until that happens, enjoy our freedoms.

🫢🤭😀🫣🤭🙄

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by Blueblaze

The beauty of the "white cross" controversy is that it provides a simple way for new arrivals to identify laid-back, friendly neighborhoods where hateful neighbors don't seek out ways to dominate and annoy everyone close to them. If the idea of the "Friendly Hometown" appeals to you, then choose a neighborhood where the spirit of the rules is observed with neatly trimmed lawns and attractive landscaping, but nobody cares if you think a pink flamingo in your garden is the height of style -- or even if you stick a little 8" white cross in the bushes to advertise your religion.

On the other hand, the lack of "white crosses", flags, trees, or other decorations identifies a neighborhood where the residents are militant about rules and conformity. So if your lifelong dream is to have or be a Stepford Wife, you, too, can have the retirement of your dreams in The Villages!

🙂🙃🙂🙃🙂🙃🙂
Hmm? Are you suggesting that people move to TV for the purpose of intentionally breaking their word and break the rules? Sounds dishonest. Like you are denigrating honorable people and praising those who are less than honorable.

[Blueblaze]

Originally Posted by fdpaq0580

🙂🙃🙂🙃🙂🙃🙂
Hmm? Are you suggesting that people move to TV for the purpose of intentionally breaking their word and break the rules? Sounds dishonest. Like you are denigrating honorable people and praising those who are less than honorable.

Our lives are chock full of lawyer babble and legaleze that nobody reads. If we tried, that's all we would have time to do. We are forced to assume rational behavior and hope for the best. The alternative is a unibomber shack on top of a mountain somewhere.

Google says you agreed that they can read your mail and capture your search history, even though none of us has ever signed an agreement -- and yet the courts have confirmed such outrageous overreach, the same as the deed restrictions we all signed that can be interpreted to say that you can't plant a little white cross in your own yard. We trust Google and The Villages to not to use their powers for evil -- but in the end, people with power always do. On the day that Google uses your email and search history to create a social credit score, like they do in China, are you going to nod along and tell us that's what we all agreed to, so shut up and do as Big Brother tells you? If so, please don't move to my neighborhood.

My advice is to simply use those little white crosses to find a neighborhood where people expect reasonable behavior -- or where they're militant lawn nazi's, if that's what you prefer,

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Maker

Supreme Court disagrees with that conclusion. Have ruled that speech also includes things that do not have words. Flags are a prime example. Also signs and symbols. The KFC chicken bucket, Walmart's "*", and so on. Also ruled that the content of any type of speech cannot be used as a basis of any restriction, such as a political sign time limits.
There are additional restrictions where government cannot restrict religion.
So the white crosses are both religious, and a symbol. Any restrictions are illegal and unconstitutional.

Anyone who provides examples of similar things that "would you approve of that" ... OR "if this is allowed, where does it end" ... Everybody has the constitutional right to freedom of speech. Those rights cannot be restricted or limited. If someone agreed to limits in the past that can be revoked at any time.
Disagree? Change the constitution. Until that happens, enjoy our freedoms.

They can't be restricted BY THE GOVERNMENT. They can still be deed restricted in a deed-restricted community. Also, no one is violating your first amendment right to freedom of speech. You're still allowed to put a white cross on your property. Just not the front lawn. Just like I don't have the right to keep a cigar lit on the lanai 24/7 with a fan blowing it into my next door neighbor's window. It's my cigar, my lanai, my fan - and yet - I don't have the right to do anything with it that floats my boat.

It's called living in a civilized community, and agreeing to abide by rules. If you don't like the rules, you don't have to live in the community. There are places in The Villages where you can put up a white cross if you want to. THOSE OTHER places - you agree to not do that when you buy the house.

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by Blueblaze

Our lives are chock full of lawyer babble and legaleze that nobody reads. If we tried, that's all we would have time to do. We are forced to assume rational behavior and hope for the best. The alternative is a unibomber shack on top of a mountain somewhere.

Google says you agreed that they can read your mail and capture your search history, even though none of us has ever signed an agreement -- and yet the courts have confirmed such outrageous overreach, the same as the deed restrictions we all signed that can be interpreted to say that you can't plant a little white cross in your own yard. We trust Google and The Villages to not to use their powers for evil -- but in the end, people with power always do. On the day that Google uses your email and search history to create a social credit score, like they do in China, are you going to nod along and tell us that's what we all agreed to, so shut up and do as Big Brother tells you? If so, please don't move to my neighborhood.

My advice is to simply use those little white crosses to find a neighborhood where people expect reasonable behavior -- or where they're militant lawn nazi's, if that's what you prefer,

Has nothing to do with what I prefer. Has everything to do with the contract you agreed to and signed. No one was forced to accept or "assume rational behavior". And if someone chooses not to read the "lawyer babble" and legalese, that is on them. Like a drunk driver telling the cop that is arresting him for dui, "You can't arrest me. How was I supposed to know you were going to pull me over tonight. Heck nobody has time to read all the driving laws".
I am not in favor of "lawn nazis. But, if one would get called out for breaking the rule, I would hope that they understand that it was their own fault and they were unlucky enough to be the one who got caught and with good grace, correct the situation.
And I'm still not sure how you figure the unibomber is the alternative to any of this.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Blueblaze

Our lives are chock full of lawyer babble and legaleze that nobody reads. If we tried, that's all we would have time to do. We are forced to assume rational behavior and hope for the best. The alternative is a unibomber shack on top of a mountain somewhere.

Google says you agreed that they can read your mail and capture your search history, even though none of us has ever signed an agreement -- and yet the courts have confirmed such outrageous overreach, the same as the deed restrictions we all signed that can be interpreted to say that you can't plant a little white cross in your own yard. We trust Google and The Villages to not to use their powers for evil -- but in the end, people with power always do. On the day that Google uses your email and search history to create a social credit score, like they do in China, are you going to nod along and tell us that's what we all agreed to, so shut up and do as Big Brother tells you? If so, please don't move to my neighborhood.

My advice is to simply use those little white crosses to find a neighborhood where people expect reasonable behavior -- or where they're militant lawn nazi's, if that's what you prefer,

I live in an area where those white crosses are allowed. That doesn't make me a good neighbor. I don't like those crosses, and I think anyone who thinks that putting one on their front lawn is a surefire way of making everyone think "yeah that person lives the faith" is being a nincompoop. However, they have the right to be a nincompoop. I accepted this when I moved in. Really it just lets me know who to NOT invite to my Satanic Ladies Night. They're missing out. We have a hell of a time

[Rainger99]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

There are places in The Villages where you can put up a white cross if you want to. THOSE OTHER places - you agree to not do that when you buy the house.

I was not aware that some areas allow white crosses and some don’t.

Does anyone know which areas allow them?
And why the discrepancy?

[Bilyclub]

Historic Section for sure. The developer refined things as they continued to build.

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

I live in an area where those white crosses are allowed. That doesn't make me a good neighbor. I don't like those crosses, and I think anyone who thinks that putting one on their front lawn is a surefire way of making everyone think "yeah that person lives the faith" is being a nincompoop. However, they have the right to be a nincompoop. I accepted this when I moved in. Really it just lets me know who to NOT invite to my Satanic Ladies Night. They're missing out. We have a hell of a time

Almost makes me sorry I'm a guy! Almost! 😁😁😃😳