[Aces4]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

One of my neighbors died.

My cousin's neighbor died.

The point is not that no one knows anyone who died. The point is that being a VICTIM does not equate, exclusively, with death. If you're hit by a hit-and-run driver and live to tell about it, you're still a victim of a hit-and-run driver. If you're shot by a bank robber and live to tell about it, you're still a victim of a shooting. If your house is burglarized, and you aren't even injured at all, you're still a victim of a burglary.

If you're raped, you're a victim of rape whether you live or die as a result.

My sister is a VICTIM of Covid. She lived to tell about it, but she was very sick for a couple of months. Because of a blood clotting disorder, she CANNOT be vaccinated. The risk of a blood clot forming and killing her (which is a rare side effect of the vaccines) is higher for her than for people who don't have this disorder. She has to get tested regularly to make sure she still has antibodies. If she's no longer immune as a result of getting COVID, she will have to isolate away from everyone else. The next time she gets sick from it, it could kill her.

So just keep your semantic horsepucky to yourself. Living people are victimized by things every day. And every day my sister was sick, was a day our entire family was victimized by Covid and the insensitive jerks who spread the disease because "muh freedumz" were more important than world health.

And sadly, you may have been the individual harboring covid, without being sick yourself, who gave it to your sister. Why don’t people understand that fact? Your information is the horsepucky being shoveled by the uninformed.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by Alana33

I'm far less concerned about "Afghans bringing measles and other diseases" than I am about Xenophobic American Antivaxxers who continue to spread ignorance, misinformation and this awful virus.

So it’s a matter of picking oxes to be gored...

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Aces4

And sadly, you may have been the individual harboring covid, without being sick yourself, who gave it to your sister. Why don’t people understand that fact? Your information is the horsepucky being shoveled by the uninformed.

I wear a mask and I'm vaccinated. My sister doesn't live with me - she didn't even live in the same state when she got sick. So no, it wasn't me who gave it to her - unless you can catch it over the telephone.

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by Two Bills

According to Dr. Google, the measles vaccination is mostly good for life.
Fort McCoy is nearly 1400 miles from TV.
Think it's fairly safe to go out in public

Fort McCoy not the only post/base they going to.

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by Michael G.

Can you remember back in grade school getting shots for measles, mumps, chicken pox, pneumonia and polo etc?
Can you also recall there was no choice to get vaccinated like the covid19 shot today, everybody get the shot?

What changed??

I was in military world wide ready deployment at 30 min notice when on mobility. I have shot records full of all sorts of shots. When I was in military you had no choice, you got the shot or you got article 15. Course that was close to 30 years ago when I retired. Don’t know rules now but I bet they have little choice??

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

I wear a mask and I'm vaccinated. My sister doesn't live with me - she didn't even live in the same state when she got sick. So no, it wasn't me who gave it to her - unless you can catch it over the telephone.

I hope you understand you could not give it to her over the phone but the point was glazed over with that response. Your sister or any other vulnerable individual would require a total shutdown of society again and full isolation to never be exposed to covid 19 virus and even then, who knows. To indicate she was safe as long as she only associated with the vaccinated is a farce.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Aces4

I hope you understand you could not give it to her over the phone but the point was glazed over with that response. Your sister or any other vulnerable individual would require a total shutdown of society again and full isolation to never be exposed to covid 19 virus and even then, who knows. To indicate she was safe as long as she only associated with the vaccinated is a farce.

If you only think in binary, that might be correct.

Is it possible for a vaccinated person to spread the virus? The answer seems to be yes. Will a vaccinated population spread the virus as quickly and as easily as an unvaccinated population? Absolutely not. While it is possible for a vaccinated person to become infected and possibly spread, it is far less likely: I have read their chance of becoming infected is less and the length of time they carry the virus is less. Put the virus in a crowd of vaccinated people and it has a hard time finding a way to reproduce and survive.

Does that drive it to zero? Maybe not, but it drives the amount of virus in the community down which reduces the likelihood that the few unprotected individuals encounter it.

Vaccines don't need to be 100% effective and they don't need to be taken by 100% of the population in order to make the world safe. Determining the numbers to make this work is beyond my simple math but it is pretty clear that 70% uptake is not sufficient.

[Blueblaze]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

One of my neighbors died.

My cousin's neighbor died.

The point is not that no one knows anyone who died. The point is that being a VICTIM does not equate, exclusively, with death. If you're hit by a hit-and-run driver and live to tell about it, you're still a victim of a hit-and-run driver. If you're shot by a bank robber and live to tell about it, you're still a victim of a shooting. If your house is burglarized, and you aren't even injured at all, you're still a victim of a burglary.

If you're raped, you're a victim of rape whether you live or die as a result.

My sister is a VICTIM of Covid. She lived to tell about it, but she was very sick for a couple of months. Because of a blood clotting disorder, she CANNOT be vaccinated. The risk of a blood clot forming and killing her (which is a rare side effect of the vaccines) is higher for her than for people who don't have this disorder. She has to get tested regularly to make sure she still has antibodies. If she's no longer immune as a result of getting COVID, she will have to isolate away from everyone else. The next time she gets sick from it, it could kill her.

So just keep your semantic horsepucky to yourself. Living people are victimized by things every day. And every day my sister was sick, was a day our entire family was victimized by Covid and the insensitive jerks who spread the disease because "muh freedumz" were more important than world health.

Well, I do know someone who almost died from your "rare blood clot" vaccination side effect -- my neighbor had a stroke the day after she got her shot. Is that "semantic horse pucky?" Does your right to not catch a bad cold extend to forcing people to have strokes? And if the "side effect" is so rare for this experimental gene manipulation vaccine, isn't it odd that I know a victim of the vaccine but not any victims of the disease?

I never said I was against getting vaccinated. I got my shots (I actually got my case of Covid waiting in line for my 2nd shot -- standing on a floor sticker in an Ocala shopping mall with a mask on, 6 feet from a bunch of other people in masks who had already had their temperature checked).

But your right to not catch a bad cold does not extend to forcing your neighbors to inject gene manipulation into their own bodies, with unknown side effects. Two of my grandkids have deadly peanut allergies. Does that give me the right to confiscate your peanuts?

We know the long-term effects of ordinary vaccines. We don't know the long term effect of injecting a live virus into a person, in order to hijack that person's living cells to produce spike proteins, in order to produce an immune response to a completely different virus. Did you know that's how the one-shot J&J vaccine works? The Pfizer and Moderna MRNA vaccines are even more experimental -- they inject the genes to produce the spike protein directly into your cells.

I'm an old man more at risk from the disease than the long-term effects, so I got the shot. But I'm deeply worried about the unknown long-term effects of injecting a pre-teen with this gene manipulation. Could it make them sterile? Could it cause their kids to be born with cleft palate or some other genetic defect? NOBODY KNOWS.

You don't have the right to inject my grandkids with experimental gene manipulation, just to save you from a 0.4% chance of death. And I don't have any more right to order you to take an experimental shot to protect my grandkids from a bad cold than I have to confiscate your peanuts for their peanut allergy.

Your health is your responsibility, not the hive's. We aren't insects, we are free men. Or at least we used to be.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

If you only think in binary, that might be correct.

Is it possible for a vaccinated person to spread the virus? The answer seems to be yes. Will a vaccinated population spread the virus as quickly and as easily as an unvaccinated population? Absolutely not. While it is possible for a vaccinated person to become infected and possibly spread, it is far less likely: I have read their chance of becoming infected is less and the length of time they carry the virus is less. Put the virus in a crowd of vaccinated people and it has a hard time finding a way to reproduce and survive.

Does that drive it to zero? Maybe not, but it drives the amount of virus in the community down which reduces the likelihood that the few unprotected individuals encounter it.

Vaccines don't need to be 100% effective and they don't need to be taken by 100% of the population in order to make the world safe. Determining the numbers to make this work is beyond my simple math but it is pretty clear that 70% uptake is not sufficient.

Is this where the delusion begins, I know of vaccinated couples and families infected by vaccinated spouses and aunts and uncles. You carry the same covid virus as the unvaccinated if you have been exposed to another person carrying the virus. It is not a weakened form of the virus, it is the same virus in the vaccinated and unvaccinated. Hospitalizations maybe lower in the vaccinated but I’m still seeing many hospitalizations in the vaccinated too.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Blueblaze

Well, I do know someone who almost died from your "rare blood clot" vaccination side effect -- my neighbor had a stroke the day after she got her shot. Is that "semantic horse pucky?" Does your right to not catch a bad cold extend to forcing people to have strokes? And if the "side effect" is so rare for this experimental gene manipulation vaccine, isn't it odd that I know a victim of the vaccine but not any victims of the disease?

I never said I was against getting vaccinated. I got my shots (I actually got my case of Covid waiting in line for my 2nd shot -- standing on a floor sticker in an Ocala shopping mall with a mask on, 6 feet from a bunch of other people in masks who had already had their temperature checked).

But your right to not catch a bad cold does not extend to forcing your neighbors to inject gene manipulation into their own bodies, with unknown side effects. Two of my grandkids have deadly peanut allergies. Does that give me the right to confiscate your peanuts?

We know the long-term effects of ordinary vaccines. We don't know the long term effect of injecting a live virus into a person, in order to hijack that person's living cells to produce spike proteins, in order to produce an immune response to a completely different virus. Did you know that's how the one-shot J&J vaccine works? The Pfizer and Moderna MRNA vaccines are even more experimental -- they inject the genes to produce the spike protein directly into your cells.

I'm an old man more at risk from the disease than the long-term effects, so I got the shot. But I'm deeply worried about the unknown long-term effects of injecting a pre-teen with this gene manipulation. Could it make them sterile? Could it cause their kids to be born with cleft palate or some other genetic defect? NOBODY KNOWS.

You don't have the right to inject my grandkids with experimental gene manipulation, just to save you from a 0.4% chance of death. And I don't have any more right to order you to take an experimental shot to protect my grandkids from a bad cold than I have to confiscate your peanuts for their peanut allergy.

Your health is your responsibility, not the hive's. We aren't insects, we are free men. Or at least we used to be.

And the problem with your post is the original premise------THIS VACCINE IS NOT "EXPERIMENTAL GENE MANIPULATION". PERIOD!!! EXCLAMATION POINT!!!

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Aces4

Is this where the delusion begins, I know of vaccinated couples and families infected by vaccinated spouses and aunts and uncles. You carry the same covid virus as the unvaccinated if you have been exposed to another person carrying the virus. It is not a weakened form of the virus, it is the same virus in the vaccinated and unvaccinated. Hospitalizations maybe lower in the vaccinated but I’m still seeing many hospitalizations in the vaccinated too.

Actually you are right , it is the same virus. But whether the immune system of a vaccinated individual "weakens" it before it can be transmitted is unknown
at this time. However, again, the assumption that a vaccinated individual can contract COVID as easily as the unvaccinated is COMPLETELY FALSE. They can, but at a substantially lower rate, and then the chance of another vaccinated individual getting it from him is extremely low.

Lastly, as of this morning, Advent Health reports that 92% of their ICU COVID cases have not been vaccinated. So, as of this morning, this is STILL a pandemic of the unvaccinated.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Actually you are right , it is the same virus. But whether the immune system of a vaccinated individual "weakens" it before it can be transmitted is unknown
at this time. However, again, the assumption that a vaccinated individual can contract COVID as easily as the unvaccinated is COMPLETELY FALSE. They can, but at a substantially lower rate, and then the chance of another vaccinated individual getting it from him is extremely low.

Lastly, as of this morning, Advent Health reports that 92% of their ICU COVID cases have not been vaccinated. So, as of this morning, this is STILL a pandemic of the unvaccinated.

You missed the point, vaccinated distribute the virus the same as everyone else even if THEY don’t have covid personally. The mess I’m watching at this point is an extremely fit and healthy RN, vaccinated and does not work in hospital or clinic setting contracted disease from vaccinated person, she spread it to her significant other, her brother now has it and two of her nephews just were diagnosed. Only the children were unvaccinated and she herself ran a pretty good fever, headache, body aches and a cough that has lingered. I didn’t hear if her sense of taste was affected. One of the patients is immunocompromised and is struggling even though vaccinated.

Also, what about the fellow poster on here who was vaccinated, got covid, was hospitalized and may have permanent lung damage? Why are we hearing about these “breakthrough cases” if all is well with the vaccinated and they only spread a weak version?

[brfree1411@aol.com]

All citizens from the US have to receive vaccinations to enter other countries, smallpox, malaria, etc. Can we be sure citizens of other countries are vaccinated before entering this country at large? Maybe they are offended by this?

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Aces4

You missed the point, vaccinated distribute the virus the same as everyone else even if THEY don’t have covid personally. The mess I’m watching at this point is an extremely fit and healthy RN, vaccinated and does not work in hospital or clinic setting contracted disease from vaccinated person, she spread it to her significant other, her brother now has it and two of her nephews just were diagnosed. Only the children were unvaccinated and she herself ran a pretty good fever, headache, body aches and a cough that has lingered. I didn’t hear if her sense of taste was affected. One of the patients is immunocompromised and is struggling even though vaccinated.

Also, what about the fellow poster on here who was vaccinated, got covid, was hospitalized and may have permanent lung damage? Why are we hearing about these “breakthrough cases” if all is well with the vaccinated and they only spread a weak version?

Yes, a point was missed, but not by me. Again, the vaccinated can spread the virus, but RARELY. How rare---breakthrough cases for the original virus was 0.07%. That's breakthrough----the chances of someone contracting the virus FROM that breakthrough case is much lower. Since that number was last published by the CDC in May, they have stopped counting breakthrough cases, so we don't have numbers for the delta variant, but empirically it is thought to be much lower than the unvaccinated.
An anecdotal case as was described proves absolutely nothing.

[jswirs]

[QUOTE=golfing eagles;2001355]And the problem with your post is the original premise------THIS VACCINE IS NOT "EXPERIMENTAL GENE MANIPULATION". PERIOD!!! EXCLAMATION POINT!!![/QUOTE

It may not be gene manipulation, but at present, as far as I am concerned, it is still experimental, because it simply has not been widely used for a sufficient amount of time. Therefore, no one knows what the long term effects may be. PERIOD!!!