[kkingston57]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

The problem (to Patzy) with police pulling over speeders: they'd be pulling them over to the exact spot where golf carts can (barely) legally drive. They're not (legally) allowed to drive on Morse, except in the designated lined area in each direction between just past the gate at 466 to just before the roundabout at Paige Place.

If a police car has a car pulled over onto the side of the road, they'll both be blocking golf cart traffic. That forces golf carts (and bicyclers and pedestrians, who are also allowed on that mini-lane) to merge into the 30mph road. It's not a big deal if they're expecting to do that when they're turning left onto a side street or onto the MMP near the gate. It's another matter entirely when it's sudden, when there's already a lot of traffic on the road.

Good point. Also, I drive this road almost every day and do believe that there are very few "speeders" on this road. Only way a person would SEE a speeder is admitting that you are speeding unless someone passes you on this road.

[kkingston57]

Originally Posted by Patzy

Not looking for police on Morse. Recommending automatic ticketing which doesn't require any law enforcement presence.

Also, this would help the ticket attorneys. They rarely loose or if get the ticket dismissed when people are ticketed and their fees are less than the fine.

[golfing eagles]

To all those that are clamoring for more speed limit enforcement, consider this: Yesterday rode a bus from Sorrento to Florence. Without any probable cause the Italian police can stop the bus, board it to check that passengers are wearing their seat belts and check the driver’s “card”—an electronic record of how many hours he has driven and how much rest time. I assume this is done in the name of “safety”. Is this what we want in The Villages? Yeah, yeah some will argue that they JUST want the speed strictly enforced at 30 (or 32 or 34 or whatever speed THEY want, since we all know that anyone driving slower than us is an idiot and anyone driving faster is a maniac). But be careful what you wish for—-slippery slope, slippery slope

[Patzy]

Will be interesting to see how Villagers in CDD1 feel about paying $12-15 million for a multimodel path if the CDD1 $116k study by Kimley-Horn recommendations are pursued. Sounds like new bonds to me.
When we could first try to maintain the legal speed. Don't need to pick a new speed there is already posted speed to manage the cars and carts.
But yea, I guess it's better for every household to pay a new assessment bond.
I know people are speeding, because I pull out onto Morse from my neighborhood and when I drive the speed limit they are tailgating me and piling up behind me. I just smile and watch them fume, until they can speed past me!
Attend the Town Hall Wed Aug 30th at LaHacienda.

[NotGolfer]

That cross-over "is" scarey and problematic. I've had people, in carts, flash me a finger (I'm in a car) because they scooted in front of me. People would rather be offensive than use common sense. I wonder how many have been it in this??!! I do know of a few (or several) who've lost to a truck/car in that northern-most circle before 441/27. That too is a nightmare. One has to watch out for the cars that think they need to hurry into the circle to beat others out as well as the golf-carts. I learned in driver's ed that we NEED to drive defensively as well as pay attention!!

[Laker14]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

To all those that are clamoring for more speed limit enforcement, consider this: Yesterday rode a bus from Sorrento to Florence. Without any probable cause the Italian police can stop the bus, board it to check that passengers are wearing their seat belts and check the driver’s “card”—an electronic record of how many hours he has driven and how much rest time. I assume this is done in the name of “safety”. Is this what we want in The Villages? Yeah, yeah some will argue that they JUST want the speed strictly enforced at 30 (or 32 or 34 or whatever speed THEY want, since we all know that anyone driving slower than us is an idiot and anyone driving faster is a maniac). But be careful what you wish for—-slippery slope, slippery slope

that is a very large jump you have made from enforcing a posted speed limit to the scenario you describe. Certainly, some enforcement of laws is needed. The existence of the "slippery slope" is a good reason for the continued monitoring and control of police powers, but not a reason to have zero law enforcement.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Laker14

that is a very large jump you have made from enforcing a posted speed limit to the scenario you describe. Certainly, some enforcement of laws is needed. The existence of the "slippery slope" is a good reason for the continued monitoring and control of police powers, but not a reason to have zero law enforcement.

A jump, but not that large. Do you support stops to check for seat belt use? After all, it’s the law. Or is it just one law and not the other you want enforced? How about our truckers? They have laws against driving too many hours here as well. Enforcement sadly lacking there. How about something that is not a law?—-since there are no vehicle inspections in Florida, someone could drive a dangerous piece of crap , but God forbid anyone goes 31 on Morse. Again, the thread was addressing the difficult crossover at 466. I wonder how many accidents occurred midway between 466 and ElCamino, and how many were caused by “speeders”

[Normal]

Originally Posted by Patzy

Will be interesting to see how Villagers in CDD1 feel about paying $12-15 million for a multimodel path if the CDD1 $116k study by Kimley-Horn recommendations are pursued. Sounds like new bonds to me.
When we could first try to maintain the legal speed. Don't need to pick a new speed there is already posted speed to manage the cars and carts.
But yea, I guess it's better for every household to pay a new assessment bond.
I know people are speeding, because I pull out onto Morse from my neighborhood and when I drive the speed limit they are tailgating me and piling up behind me. I just smile and watch them fume, until they can speed past me!
Attend the Town Hall Wed Aug 30th at LaHacienda.

No work is ever going to be done. The situation isn’t unique to some other ares in The Villages and no one wants a new bond. Heck, you just got the 700 dollar tax increase for the repair of the sewer system.

[Laker14]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

A jump, but not that large. Do you support stops to check for seat belt use? After all, it’s the law. Or is it just one law and not the other you want enforced? How about our truckers? They have laws against driving too many hours here as well. Enforcement sadly lacking there. How about something that is not a law?—-since there are no vehicle inspections in Florida, someone could drive a dangerous piece of crap , but God forbid anyone goes 31 on Morse. Again, the thread was addressing the difficult crossover at 466. I wonder how many accidents occurred midway between 466 and ElCamino, and how many were caused by “speeders”

Actually, the OP referred to two studies that addressed the entire roadway north of 466, and included options for separating automobile and golf car traffic, as well as dealing with the issue of the crossover at the 466 gate.
As the thread progresses, there are opinions stated that while the current situation is not ideal, separating the automobile traffic from golf cars by building an MMP would have many negative consequences (including expense) and that a reasonable improvement could be made by dealing with the crossover situation, and enforcing speed limits.

You are making a standard straw man argument by suggesting that simply by enforcing posted speed limits (something that is done routinely by law enforcement ) will somehow lead to stopping busses without probable cause to enforce laws (something that is currently done with DWI "wildcat" stops, and something I personally disagree with), and that since not all laws are equally enforced, somehow that suggests that enforcing speed limits on a particularly dangerous and poorly designed roadway is inappropriate.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Laker14

Actually, the OP referred to two studies that addressed the entire roadway north of 466, and included options for separating automobile and golf car traffic, as well as dealing with the issue of the crossover at the 466 gate.
As the thread progresses, there are opinions stated that while the current situation is not ideal, separating the automobile traffic from golf cars by building an MMP would have many negative consequences (including expense) and that a reasonable improvement could be made by dealing with the crossover situation, and enforcing speed limits.

You are making a standard straw man argument by suggesting that simply by enforcing posted speed limits (something that is done routinely by law enforcement ) will somehow lead to stopping busses without probable cause to enforce laws (something that is currently done with DWI "wildcat" stops, and something I personally disagree with), and that since not all laws are equally enforced, somehow that suggests that enforcing speed limits on a particularly dangerous and poorly designed roadway is inappropriate.

No sale. I stand by the analogy

[Laker14]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

No sale. I stand by the analogy

Ok. but just to be certain I understand your position, you are saying that speed limits should not be enforced on Morse Blvd north of 466 because stopping speeders will lead to changes in law enforcement procedures in this country to allow stops without probable cause, like what you saw in Italy.

Is that it?

[Normal]

Originally Posted by Laker14

Ok. but just to be certain I understand your position, you are saying that speed limits should not be enforced on Morse Blvd north of 466 because stopping speeders will lead to changes in law enforcement procedures in this country to allow stops without probable cause, like what you saw in Italy.

Is that it?

There could be a tax imposed on all rental properties to help pay for it. This would be better than a new bond. A dollar per square foot would help a bit?

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Laker14

Ok. but just to be certain I understand your position, you are saying that speed limits should not be enforced on Morse Blvd north of 466 because stopping speeders will lead to changes in law enforcement procedures in this country to allow stops without probable cause, like what you saw in Italy.

Is that it?

Not even close

[Laker14]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

To all those that are clamoring for more speed limit enforcement, consider this: Yesterday rode a bus from Sorrento to Florence. Without any probable cause the Italian police can stop the bus, board it to check that passengers are wearing their seat belts and check the driver’s “card”—an electronic record of how many hours he has driven and how much rest time. I assume this is done in the name of “safety”. Is this what we want in The Villages? Yeah, yeah some will argue that they JUST want the speed strictly enforced at 30 (or 32 or 34 or whatever speed THEY want, since we all know that anyone driving slower than us is an idiot and anyone driving faster is a maniac). But be careful what you wish for—-slippery slope, slippery slope

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

A jump, but not that large. Do you support stops to check for seat belt use? After all, it’s the law. Or is it just one law and not the other you want enforced? How about our truckers? They have laws against driving too many hours here as well. Enforcement sadly lacking there. How about something that is not a law?—-since there are no vehicle inspections in Florida, someone could drive a dangerous piece of crap , but God forbid anyone goes 31 on Morse. Again, the thread was addressing the difficult crossover at 466. I wonder how many accidents occurred midway between 466 and ElCamino, and how many were caused by “speeders”

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

No sale. I stand by the analogy

Originally Posted by Laker14

Ok. but just to be certain I understand your position, you are saying that speed limits should not be enforced on Morse Blvd north of 466 because stopping speeders will lead to changes in law enforcement procedures in this country to allow stops without probable cause, like what you saw in Italy.

Is that it?

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Not even close

So, in a nutshell, is it your opinion that speed limits should or should not be enforced on Morse Blvd, north of 466? And at what speed should tickets be written?

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Laker14

So, in a nutshell, is it your opinion that speed limits should or should not be enforced on Morse Blvd, north of 466? And at what speed should tickets be written?

Sorry to be ambiguous. I don’t speed and I think the laws should be enforced. But I don’t think the problems on Morse are speed related as much as a failure to yield the right of way