[Russ_Boston]

NJ - good post about the $ value of the subject matter.

But even this makes my (and the recent post by L2rdhd) point. Since they are already making money on the issue then why change? You can do all the surveys you like but business is propelled by profit motive. If people start voting with their feet (i.e. don't pay for membership) then change will come. If an outside large facility opens up that is golf cart accessible (466 for example) then let's see how it goes. If people sign up for that instead of Colony then perhaps changes will take place.

Does anyone think that The Villages commercial dept. has turned down requests by outside vendors to build a full service gym that is golf cart accessible? Curious.

[pooh]

Originally Posted by Russ_Boston

Golf isn't really a form of exercise?

Maybe not if you get in a cart and ride but a full length 18 hole walk is about 4.5 miles over the course of 4.5 hours. Granted it is done in 200 yard segments but it is still 4.5 miles.

More importantly we say things like "we should lobby for this". Where do you propose the money would come from for new more lavish (never mind free) gyms? Our amenity fee is based on the current setup. Lobby all you want it won't happen. There are not that many new centers left to be built and they are not going to retrofit the old ones never mind make them free.

Another point that I've made many times when talking about gyms is this: If it were such a needed thing that everyone uses (although I think Gracie is correct about most people not using them) then why doesn't an outside business venture step in and start creating them like crazy on 466 or 466A or 44? MVP is the only outside vendor to date and the jury is still out to see if they will be financial successful at current rates.

The reason that many other real estate developments offer free gyms is simple. They don't have what TV has! They need to offer something to entice buyers. Many of these developments are failing. TV is still closing 300 homes a month (give or take).

Glad you wrote this Russ. Golf is indeed a form of exercise. One has the option of making it more or less "intense" as their needs and abilities change.

Often, we tend to think that as we are, so are others. Granted, there are more younger adults moving to the community, but why would one feel that the developer HAS to put in more workout areas. Would one move to another community and demand the city fathers build a new gym? Realize people that you are moving to a new community, a pre-planned community with designs approved and permits issued. Personally, I wouldn't want our rec center retrofitted with workout equipment. The billiard room is used frequently, the two rooms for activities are used frequently. Taking one of those rooms away for exercise can change the plans and events scheduled by clubs and villagers.

Golf isn't exercise, my foot...walk and carry your clubs, that's exercise.

[kentucky blue]

Originally Posted by pooh

Glad you wrote this Russ. Golf is indeed a form of exercise. One has the option of making it more or less "intense" as their needs and abilities change.



Golf isn't exercise, my foot...walk and carry your clubs, that's exercise.

Who exactly in TV walks the course and carries their clubs, i haven't seen anybody.You get more exercise taking your trash to the curb.Golf is a great game and a wonderful social gathering, but as a form of exercise in TV,i think not.We need more and better gym facilities within a golf cart drive.

[pooh]

Originally Posted by kentucky blue

Who exactly in TV walks the course and carries their clubs, i haven't seen anybody.You get more exercise taking your trash to the curb.Golf is a great game and a wonderful social gathering, but as a form of exercise in TV,i think not.We need more and better gym facilities within a golf cart drive.

Personally, I don't, but hubby does. I've seen lots of walkers over the years. Personally, it's not the way I want to exercise, but people do.

Speaking of taking out trash....yard work is wonderful exercise, though in the summer, it's more torture if you ask me... We have a number of neighbors that tend to their own grass, trees, planting beds.

My point and I most likely didn't do a good job at getting it across, is that there are lots of ways to exercise in TV, it doesn't have to be done at a gym. Maybe some are just focused on work outs and forget there are other ways to work out. Heck, I'll assume they're moving here with their 9 to 5 work mentality...takes some time to rid mind and body of that.

[asilver]

I believe there is a 4th fitness center at the new Seabreeze Regional Rec Center

[NJblue]

Originally Posted by Russ_Boston

NJ - good post about the $ value of the subject matter.

But even this makes my (and the recent post by L2rdhd) point. Since they are already making money on the issue then why change? You can do all the surveys you like but business is propelled by profit motive. If people start voting with their feet (i.e. don't pay for membership) then change will come. If an outside large facility opens up that is golf cart accessible (466 for example) then let's see how it goes. If people sign up for that instead of Colony then perhaps changes will take place.

Does anyone think that The Villages commercial dept. has turned down requests by outside vendors to build a full service gym that is golf cart accessible? Curious.

Russ, your view comes from the perspective of the status quo being the correct way to handle fitness centers (i.e., not being part of the amenity structure covered by amenity fees). I think what people are suggesting is that, like virtually every other 55+ community, the fitness centers should be provided at no additional cost.

Right now the lion share of our amenity fees go to golf. That's fine since TV has been marketed as a golf-centric community. However, by not including fitness centers as part of the "free" offering, I think TV is making a strategic mistake. You mention "voting with your feet"; I wonder how many prospective buyers who are not avid golfers looked at what they would be getting for their amenity fees and decided that the $135 plus fitness center fees was just a bit too much when they really had little use for all the golf courses. These people probably voted with their feet and bought elsewhere.

No big deal, right? After all, we're all golfers and it's no big loss to lose buyers who are not golfers. However, the cost of providing free fitness centers is minuscule compared with the golf courses. If we could attract more non-golfers by having free fitness centers, the net beneficiaries would be the golfer who now would have fewer competitors for tee times (because the population of TV would not be so dominated with golfers). They would also have fewer beginners/hackers to put up with who are just trying "to get their money's worth" from their amenity fees.

[Russ_Boston]

NJ - You're making my point again. Obviously people are not deciding to go elsewhere. Just look at the sales figures compared to any other real estate development in the country.

Would it be nice to have great free workout areas? Yes, but TV managment decided that it was not needed. And based on the profits they are getting from them (see $ post above), they might be right.

[2BNTV]

Originally Posted by Taj44

Unfortunately there is no "Y" nearby. I've never seen anyone walking the 18 hole courses here, and I used to do it all the time up north. They are not set up for walking - long distances between some holes, and there are pace of play issues.

We have no way of knowing how many people would use a gym/health club without doing a survey. We can all guess any number we want. But the thing is, if the gyms were here, there would obviously be more people using them. People don't have any uncrowded gyms to use now!

To advertise the Villages as an active retirement community, and not have the gyms to support the residents is a major gaff in my opinion. As to whether or not the facitlities should be provided - what percentage of Villagers do clogging? how about polo?, how about billiards? how about paddle tennis? We provide facilities for all of the above and many many more - there is a small niche of people who support each activity. If I recall there were no paddle tennis courts at all so no one was doing it until they installed the paddle tennis court up by Seabreeze.


Of course there are people who sit in the house and don't exercise for various reasons - infirmities or illness, lack of motovation or interest, etc., but for those who do need to exercise it would be great to have the facilities. We really have no idea how many people that would be without doing a good survey. Some people can't walk long periods of time or jog or play pickleball which by the way, is one of the most injury prone sports in the Villages, but they can exercise on a treadmill or elliptical. As someone else mentioned, if you are a babyboomer, you are part of a group that has fueled the rise of healthclubs since the 1980's. I've read various statistics that show the percentage of health club members that are aged 55 and older ranges from 20-30%. That is huge. When we don't offer the health club facilties in the Villages, my opinion is that we are really missing the boat. You try living here in the summer when the heat index is 110 degrees and walk an 18 hole golf course. Good luck - they'd be scraping you off the cart path. I ride 20 miles/day on my bike, and had to be on the bike before 7 a.m. or it was just not do-able because of the heat. An airconditioned facility where I could do aerobic activity would be bliss.

Taj44;

I couldn't agree with you more. I'm still a wannbe and I would like to see addition low cost facilities. It won't affect my wanting to move to TV but it would be nice.

Here is my 2 cents worth.

The need to exercise three tiimes a week in controlled environment is crucial for anyone who wants to be physically fit. Trying to exercise in excessive heat can be detrimental to one's health as I tried once when the heat on a running track was 110 degrees. I didn't get very far and had to stop with turned out to be a strained back, (surface too hard). I was much younger and not very wise.

I am not an expert and everyone has their views on what is needed to get fit. I exercise three times a week with weights and with a cross training machine.
1. The heart needs 20 minutes, (minimum), at 60% to 80% range of maximum allowed is order to get the benefit of a cardio-vascular workout. That 220 minus one age and times 60 or 80%.
2.If your on a treadmill and you having trouble talking to another person in terms of breathing, you are doing too much. I was much younger.
3. Lifting weights to strenghtened the bones.
4. Studies have shown that exercise will help you to live longer!!!

IMHO - Why can't three times a week be the basis for staying healthy and add on additional exercise such as golf, swimming, pickleball, ets.... assuming one's health will permit.

When someone complains they didn;'t want to come to the gym, I tell them it' s "mind over matter". When they ask what I mean, I tell them, "if you don't mind, it don't matter".

IMHO -I rather give my money for a gym than to give it to doctors. I would tend to think that a Planet Fitness or similar would help to make TV more perfect and help attract people who are into fitness and will require these low costs fitness centers.

Use it or lose it.

[Bogie Shooter]

Probably not enough people to support more "gyms". BTW by gyms, does that mean a baketball court or does it mean a fitness center?

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Russ_Boston

NJ - You're making my point again. Obviously people are not deciding to go elsewhere. Just look at the sales figures compared to any other real estate development in the country.

Would it be nice to have great free workout areas? Yes, but TV managment decided that it was not needed. And based on the profits they are getting from them (see $ post above), they might be right.

Russ. I agree with you once again.

[JUREK]

Originally Posted by 2BNTV

Taj44;

I couldn't agree with you more. I'm still a wannbe and I would like to see addition low cost facilities. It won't affect my wanting to move to TV but it would be nice.

Here is my 2 cents worth.

The need to exercise three tiimes a week in controlled environment is crucial for anyone who wants to be physically fit. Trying to exercise in excessive heat can be detrimental to one's health as I tried once when the heat on a running track was 110 degrees. I didn't get very far and had to stop with turned out to be a strained back, (surface too hard). I was much younger and not very wise.

I am not an expert and everyone has their views on what is needed to get fit. I exercise three times a week with weights and with a cross training machine.
1. The heart needs 20 minutes, (minimum), at 60% to 80% range of maximum allowed is order to get the benefit of a cardio-vascular workout. That 220 minus one age and times 60 or 80%.
2.If your on a treadmill and you having trouble talking to another person in terms of breathing, you are doing too much. I was much younger.
3. Lifting weights to strenghtened the bones.
4. Studies have shown that exercise will help you to live longer!!!

IMHO - Why can't three times a week be the basis for staying healthy and add on additional exercise such as golf, swimming, pickleball, ets.... assuming one's health will permit.

When someone complains they didn;'t want to come to the gym, I tell them it' s "mind over matter". When they ask what I mean, I tell them, "if you don't mind, it don't matter".

IMHO -I rather give my money for a gym than to give it to doctors. I would tend to think that a Planet Fitness or similar would help to make TV more perfect and help attract people who are into fitness and will require these low costs fitness centers.

Use it or lose it.

Excellent email. I also work out 2-3 times a week. Yes one has to do all the major muscle groups.

I really enjoyed the one email about taking the garbage out for your exercise.
Kind of like , hey the golf courses are all shut down lets all go Miniature golfing It's the same thing as golfing

[graciegirl]

It isn't part of the plan and this place is 3/4 finished. You can talk about it until the cows come home. It isn't going to happen.

So if that would be a deal breaker for a person moving here, I guess someone else won't find it so.

This place will be finished out as planned and those who want an airport or a bunch of interior pools are just going to have to look somewhere else.

The medical issue and the lack of a great cancer center was nearly a deal breaker for me at first, but that is being solved as time goes on.

Our youngest daughter has a saying and those who know her know why.
It is " You can't have everything you want."

It's true too. Always.

[pooh]

I really enjoyed the one email about taking the garbage out for your exercise.
Kind of like , hey the golf courses are all shut down lets all go Miniature golfing It's the same thing as golfing

In a way, you've sort of "dissed" anyone who golfs for exercise...whether they ride or walk. Hopefully you didn't mean that, did you?

[Pturner]

I suspect free gym memberships at at all the rec. centers would be wildly popular and would attract more people to want to live in TV. However, in reality, if things keep going as they are going, TV will completely build-out without this enhancement.

It could be that the developer seeks to maximize profits while building a fabulous retirement community.

If so, "free golf" (i.e., included in the amenities fees) perhaps meets that objective. It might act as a loss-leader, attracting avid golfers who take advantage of the free golf, but who also pay to play championship courses. They choose TV over other golf communities in part because of the large number of courses, some of which are free. Bottom line, golfers bring in a ton of extra revenue and profits.

Free gym memberships at the rec. centers might not fit that business model. Amenities fees could increase to cover costs, but that doesn't increase profits. So this subset of Villagers would not bring in additional profits as do golfers. On the other hand, TV collects revenues from Villagers who use the rec. centers and from the profits of any commercial gyms that locate in TV. Therefore, making gym facilities available for a fee and limiting in-house gyms to attract commercial ones may help maximize profits.

Of course, I'm just providing a possible explanation for why free golf is included and free gyms are not. Who knows. At any rate, it certainly would not hurt to request more gyms and/or no-fee gyms in our annual surveys, and to put together a compelling argument for it. It never hurts to ask. It also never hurts to be realistic and practical in what we ask for.

[2BNTV]

[QUOTE=Pturner;308494]

At any rate, it certainly would not hurt to request more gyms and/or no-fee gyms in our annual surveys, and to put together a compelling argument for it. It never hurts to ask.

PTurner:

My latest favorite saying is, "if you don't ask, the answer is automatically no".