[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Rosebud1949

But the Villages have THEIR money from us now and do not care. They sold us a dream that will turn to a nightmare. Not what ANYONE signed up for. We will be over-run with kids etc. So much for 1 month per year visits for the rest of our grandkids.... that will change too I suppose. Make the new apartments DOWN below SR 44.... DO NOT MIX THEM with very senior well established locations.

NO kids. Same rules apply to the apartments that apply to the rest of this place under Federal law regarding age restricted communities.

And just in case you missed my previous post;

Across from the torn down Hacienda Hills Country Club is the Sharon Morse Nature Preserve and nine holes of golf course. Behind the area where the building was torn down is nine holes of golf course. On either side are four homes. Please drive to this site up or down Morse and see for yourself the area where these apartments will be built.

The Villages(R) Community Map - Explore & Find Your Way Around

If you are not familiar find Spanish Springs, follow Morse South (Hacienda Hills site is VERY close) You will have to enlarge the area several times to see it well. One picture is worth a thousand words.

[Barborv]

In my opinion, When the so called complainers are told, you don't have to stay here, I think they are complaining because they do love it in TV and don't want to lose a good thing. Change is scary and not always for the better. The areas being built down the southern end of TV was ok. Just some worried about overcrowding and thought it would be a good idea to add a fourth town square. Doubt if that's happening! But the area kept to the feel of TV, a hometown residential lifestyle. Apartments are a whole different dynamic. Apartments over businesses aren't that terrible and will probably come at a high cost. The apartment complex is a different story. Hopefully it wont be more then 2 stories high.We all know in our hearts it will move forward. Lets just hope that with the added population there will be more restaurants, businesses ,clubs times and amenities added to compensate for the amount of people. Trying to be positive

[billethkid]

Originally Posted by Barborv

In my opinion, When the so called complainers are told, you don't have to stay here, I think they are complaining because they do love it in TV and don't want to lose a good thing. Change is scary and not always for the better. The areas being built down the southern end of TV was ok. Just some worried about overcrowding and thought it would be a good idea to add a fourth town square. Doubt if that's happening! But the area kept to the feel of TV, a hometown residential lifestyle. Apartments are a whole different dynamic. Apartments over businesses aren't that terrible and will probably come at a high cost. The apartment complex is a different story. Hopefully it wont be more then 2 stories high.We all know in our hearts it will move forward. Lets just hope that with the added population there will be more restaurants, businesses ,clubs times and amenities added to compensate for the amount of people. Trying to be positive

Exactly what has been done since TV crossed highway 441 and progressed Southward!!

[newgirl]

I don’t understand how this is happening. To get the tax breaks the developer build a site condo community. Part of that agreement is so much parkland( or residents only land) to be used for the co owners( us). How are they now taking the land promised in the agreement that they created? I have never heard of this happening anywhere else without a damn good reason of need, and a complete court case . Can someone explain this?

[npwalters]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Here is a map of the area.

Across from the torn down Hacienda Hills Country Club is the Sharon Morse Nature Preserve and nine holes of golf course. Behind the area where the building was torn down is nine holes of golf course. On either side are four homes. Please drive to this site up or down Morse and see for yourself the area where these apartments will be built.

The Villages(R) Community Map - Explore & Find Your Way Around

If you are not familiar find Spanish Springs, follow Morse South (Hacienda Hills site is VERY close) You will have to enlarge the area several times to see it well. One picture is worth a thousand words.

Yes, by all means drive to this area stop in the parking lot and look around. When you do, stand there and ask yourself "how would I feel if that was MY house I'm looking at?"

Then ask yourself if the area was ever intended to be anything but single family housing.

Then realize that apartments will literally cram about 500 new residents into a VERY small area that previously had zero.

Sound like a good deal for the current residents? Of course not. Gracie (and all the others in favor) would be firmly opposed if 286 apartments were being built in the middle of her neighborhood. Easy to sit back and say it's OK when it doesn't get within 5 miles of your home.

[G.R.I.T.S.]

Originally Posted by tophcfa

Good post, I agree with much of what is said. Although I am very strongly against the apartment complex at Hacienda Hills, I am not against the apartments in the town squares (except for the fact that they will put further strain on already overused amenities). I had the same thought about both the location and timing of the upcoming meeting next Monday. Hold it far away from the effected Spanish Springs/LSL area and be sure to get the meeting in while still holding the strings of their puppets.

And don't worry about being falsely labeled as a complainer. You are simply stating relevant facts along with some of your opinions. You are not complaining! The real complainers are the predictable few that will COMPLAIN like clockwork about Villagers who take the time and effort to share both facts and opinions with fellow Villagers.

P.S. Stay tuned, we still have not heard from the CHIEF COMPLAINER in the history of TOV, but we will : (

We have always tried to live by the Golden Rule: "He who has the gold makes the rules." We will continue to love it here for whatever time we have left. I, perhaps naively, still believe the developer would not intentionally do anything to risk the quality of this 40+ year investment. But then again, I've also heard that failed family businesses tank with the 3rd generation.

[npwalters]

So here is an idea for those that think the Hacienda Hills site proposed apartment complex will fit in and the residents are just malcontents.

I chose a hole on a Arnold Palmer Country Club course. The championship course is owned by the developer and since they own it -according to some on this blog - they can do whatever they want with it. After all there are no guarantees are there? We can place 286 multi-story apartments in the area I have outlined in red. Note that it has wetlands on one side, a golf course on one side, 466 and horse farms on one side, and ONLY 4 houses that actually adjoin it. I don't think the residents in Bridgeport at Laurel Valley will mind- do you?

[waltwl]

well said

[Jim 9922]

Originally Posted by npwalters

So here is an idea for those that think the Hacienda Hills site proposed apartment complex will fit in and the residents are just malcontents.

I chose a hole on a Arnold Palmer Country Club course. The championship course is owned by the developer and since they own it -according to some on this blog - they can do whatever they want with it. After all there are no guarantees are there? We can place 286 multi-story apartments in the area I have outlined in red. Note that it has wetlands on one side, a golf course on one side, 466 and horse farms on one side, and ONLY 4 houses that actually adjoin it. I don't think the residents in Bridgeport at Laurel Valley will mind- do you?

Not a bad idea. There already exists a nice safe, wide multi-modal path AND a four lane highway right out the door of the suggested complex. The views North, East, and South would be wonderful, although one would have to look at roof tops and bird cages to the West where an area was already zoned and built "individual residential". On the West side of the existing single family residential area there would be room for a few food trucks and a parking lot with a great view of a pond. And since there is a parking lot with maybe extra room, add a Aldi's so all the new apartment dwellers have convenient shopping.
Nice. ---- All that has to be done is change the zoning.

[asianthree]

Originally Posted by npwalters

So here is an idea for those that think the Hacienda Hills site proposed apartment complex will fit in and the residents are just malcontents.

I chose a hole on a Arnold Palmer Country Club course. The championship course is owned by the developer and since they own it -according to some on this blog - they can do whatever they want with it. After all there are no guarantees are there? We can place 286 multi-story apartments in the area I have outlined in red. Note that it has wetlands on one side, a golf course on one side, 466 and horse farms on one side, and ONLY 4 houses that actually adjoin it. I don't think the residents in Bridgeport at Laurel Valley will mind- do you?

And there is already a cart path, plus if they allow 4 stories you could overlook the entire neighborhood, and see the rest of the golf course. A corner rap around apartment, you could see the sun rise and set, plus at night listen to the sounds from the nature preserve.

[Northwoods]

Originally Posted by npwalters

So here is an idea for those that think the Hacienda Hills site proposed apartment complex will fit in and the residents are just malcontents.

I chose a hole on a Arnold Palmer Country Club course. The championship course is owned by the developer and since they own it -according to some on this blog - they can do whatever they want with it. After all there are no guarantees are there? We can place 286 multi-story apartments in the area I have outlined in red. Note that it has wetlands on one side, a golf course on one side, 466 and horse farms on one side, and ONLY 4 houses that actually adjoin it. I don't think the residents in Bridgeport at Laurel Valley will mind- do you?

So you are throwing out the idea that the developer can take one hole... or a few holes of a championship golf course and turn it into apartments. So one nine at Arnold Palmer would be 7... or 8 holes.
Is that really your "argument?"

[oldtimes]

Originally Posted by npwalters

So here is an idea for those that think the Hacienda Hills site proposed apartment complex will fit in and the residents are just malcontents.

I chose a hole on a Arnold Palmer Country Club course. The championship course is owned by the developer and since they own it -according to some on this blog - they can do whatever they want with it. After all there are no guarantees are there? We can place 286 multi-story apartments in the area I have outlined in red. Note that it has wetlands on one side, a golf course on one side, 466 and horse farms on one side, and ONLY 4 houses that actually adjoin it. I don't think the residents in Bridgeport at Laurel Valley will mind- do you?

For people who want to downsize from a house to an apartment but still stay in The Villages that is a lousy location.

[rtrav711]

Déjà vu…..what comes around-goes around.
Recently responded to several comments made re the changes at Hacienda CC. To reinterate…it was necessary for the developer to file with various States a
Property Report which stated on its’ face “The developer is responsible for the Accuracy and completeness of this report”. The one filed with the State of
Connecticut was a 34 page detailed document, revised in 2003. My personal initiative to purchase in The Villages was partially dependent on this report;
which in writing promised a “vision” of how The Villages were developed to that point; and what the developer was to do in the future.
There have been hundreds, if not thousands of purchases in The Villages, by individuals who were led to believe what was presented to them in writing. There is no
problem for someone to revise a plan going forward…but there is a problem for one to significantly change what was a written promise and now proves
detrimental to one who had depended in it. Additionally…there has been many pieces of sales material handed out by the developer over a
period of time that states the same objectives, etc..E.g…..Under additional information on the Restated Report filed with the Connecticut authorities…..it states on page 32 ..”40. "Describe type of building, such as high rise, cluster, garden, etc…".The answer is “The Villages is currently developed in two sections as “units” and “villas”. This follows the
previous remark “39. …..The units are intended for and restricted solely to single family home usage”. It does not say anywhere in the report, that
apartments will be part of the Villages….nor does it say anywhere in the report that multiplex buildings will become part of the Villages…nor does
it say anywhere in the report, any reference to do specifically with apartments at Spanish Springs or Sumter Landing.
No one should have any problem….going forward on new expansion areas of The Villages as to what is to be built. Going forward you are made aware of the plans. It’s when you back up and take something away…or radically change what you have promised in writing…that causes a problem. So what changes have been made against written promises on an Official document
in this case filed with the State of Connecticut. The elimination of the pool, pro shop, tennis courts, dining facilities etc., of Hacienda CC which are specifically mentioned
in the report, (eg..page 3 paragraph 3,page 20 under #17,page 21 under #18, and so on). This not only effects the adjacent homeowners….but also the greater area surrounding
The HH CC …. For the hundreds of homes that considered this course their CC because of their location to the course.
What other changes have/are occurring …… closing of the restaurant at Chula Vista; restaurant closing at El Santiago… the closing of Katie Belle’s which was a written promise
of Resident Dining in a 2004 sales brochure given prospective property buyers….the proposed apartments at Katie Belles….proposed apartments on other Spanish
Spring property…proposed apartments at Sumter Landing…and so on.
There has been talk of a Class Action Lawsuit by several groups, for compensatory Damages, on those several hundred homes that may be effected by the complex
that is proposed at the HH CC location. On speculation…say the developers are making 20% on a home…and they are averaging or have averaged about 5,000 homes a year…at about $300,000 a home sales price…the profit would roughly be $300,000,000. Again, this is speculative…and I have no basis for the profit margin…but just a guess. My
point would be…that even if it’s half of that….to actually lose 5, 6 or even $700,000 on the promises they have made…. (restaurants…CC..etc)….would literally be nothing…and allow them to maintain what they promised in writing.
In addition to a compensatory Class Action suit…there is a question as to whether or not the developers would be exposed to a Punitive Damage count. Generally, punitive damage judgments involve a tort claim, or contract claim Eg… insurance policy. The problems here arise out of contractual purchases, based on written promises.
Punitive Damages, or exemplary damages, are damages assessed in order to punish the defendant for outrageous conduct and/or to reform or deter the
defendant and others from engaging in conduct similar to that which formed the basis of the lawsuit.
I am not an attorney…but have read about these substantial judgments.
Given the importance… of filing a detailed property report with requiring official state entities…the content of these reports cannot be viewed lightly. In this situation, if the breach of written promise is so egregious, to amount to a breach of the implied good faith and fair dealing; there may be a basis for a punitive damage award. Again….I am not an attorney…and what I have concluded may be all wet…but it might be a consideration for those directly effected by the developer’s actions.
Anyhow…these are my current thoughts on the matter.

[Ladygolfer93]

Originally Posted by npwalters

New owners and potential new owners need to pay attention to what is happening in The Villages now. If you want to get an idea of what your lifestyle is going to be in several years take a look at the Spanish Springs and Sumter Landing area this month.

The developer has petitioned both Lake and Sumter County to change the existing zoning restrictions to allow multi-family housing (apartments) in Spanish Springs town square, Sumter Landing town square, Brownwood town square, and in the former location of Hacienda Hills Country Club (HHCC). The current residents are vehemently opposed to this – especially the HHCC – and have let the developer know. The developer, so far, has basically said so what, we will do what we can get away with. County Commissioner meetings are being held on 21 SEP (Monday) and in mid October. This does not affect residents in Brownwood and south but IT COULD IN several YEARS. If they choose to do it here they can choose to do it elsewhere.

You can quit reading here if you like but the remainder gets into the details you need to be well informed.

FACT: The developer plans to build a multi-story apartment complex in area that was Hacienda Hill Country Club. This complex will completely change the character of the neighborhood. It puts up to 280 apartments and about 500 new residents into plat that was a single story country club surrounded by single family homes. It will add about 500 new people to the already stressed amenities. The Amenity Authority Committee (AAC) was pressured by the developer to give about 280 amenities to the developer to make this possible. There was a hearing and the residents were firmly opposed. The AAC ignored the residents and voted to give the amenities to the developer.

OPINION: The AAC was played, rolled over like a puppy dog, and gave TV what it wanted. The affected residents are furious. You can read much more on TOTV and in the Property Owners Association (POA) newspaper.

FACT: There will be a meeting with the Sumter County special master for planning and zoning on 21 September. There are 2 meetings scheduled with the Sumter County commission in October. They will consider rezoning HHCC and 4 Sumter Landing Square locations to allow multifamily housing.

OPINION: The meeting venue with the zoning master is Everglades Recreation Center. Far from Sumter Landing and HHCC and not golf cart accessible to most. You can guess why. The developer has paired apartments in Sumter Landing and Brownwood and apartments at HHCC as an issue. This is because apartments in Sumter Landing is less egregious (although still with significant issues). They hope to muddy the water on the HHCC issue by considering them together.
The County Commissioner meeting is scheduled in October because the current commissioners change soon after that. The current commissioners are widely believed to be the developers’ lapdogs. Three incumbents were soundly voted out for that reason but will not change until after this decision.

OPINION: The developer is taking steps to change the character of the lifestyle in The Villages. They are doing this to generate additional income streams in a long developed area. The residents are firmly opposed and feel betrayed by “the family”. We love it here in our village inspired lifestyle. We want to see it stay that way. We do NOT want high density/city style life. We want the developer to recognize our concerns and forego a few bucks now to continue the long term quality lifestyle they advertise. These could well be your concerns in a few years. It is something you need to consider before you buy here.

NOTE: There will be several here that will call me a complainer – say I don’t speak for most- say some hotshot does this every few years- say the new apartment are going to be beautiful (as long as they aren’t in my neighborhood), etc. I can almost name them ahead of time. Just goes with the territory on this blog. You have to have thick skin to post here. I say go to the meetings and listen to the people speak. I have yet hear one dissenting voice other than the developers’ men.

Does A. F. F. H. play into this in any way ? Is there a possibility that applies to retirement communities too ? I know the liberal wing of the Democrat party is really supporting fair housing, which sounds like a wonderful democratic principle, but make sure you all look into this closely. It's starting to sound like one of those "you have to READ it first to know what is in it". Don't like this kind of thing from either of our major political parties ! !

[Ladygolfer93]

Originally Posted by npwalters

So here is an idea for those that think the Hacienda Hills site proposed apartment complex will fit in and the residents are just malcontents.

I chose a hole on a Arnold Palmer Country Club course. The championship course is owned by the developer and since they own it -according to some on this blog - they can do whatever they want with it. After all there are no guarantees are there? We can place 286 multi-story apartments in the area I have outlined in red. Note that it has wetlands on one side, a golf course on one side, 466 and horse farms on one side, and ONLY 4 houses that actually adjoin it. I don't think the residents in Bridgeport at Laurel Valley will mind- do you?

In reality, don't you think these "malcontents" are pretty much the same type of personality who is basically a very likable person who in all other areas is perfectly "normal", but, who in retirement really just wants to back off, be less intense, more laid back, and enjoy being out of the "rat race" ? I've found very astute, highly educated, friends of mine have simply "abstained" from keeping up with some really serious matters now that they have "retired". I think more would be concerned if they followed the "bread crumbs" to the end of the trail, but it is a very winding and complex task. I have expressed that I am trying to research possible effects of the A F F H. You don't hear much from either party, Trump has made a few vague references on this nation wide emphasis on affordable (dense, high rise) housing, but most people do not seem to understand how this effects single family housing, which to some is very unfair and an attempt at exclusivity, which makes me think of gates (even sham ones like in our community), and other things such as "semi" private clubs, country clubs *that are actually public restaurants, and certainly the neighborhood pools are open to all. Have even seen landscape crews taking showers and..... washing BOOTS in a sink in the rest room of a neighborhood pool. Since this has always been a kind of wide open community, from fishing to swimming (a little more control at the "country club" pools), to the parks and playground equipment and dog parks, I wonder how all this will play out when there is greater emphasis on high rise and high density, and less emphasis on single family dwellings ? Been doing a lot of research lately, and a lot of "thinking"... of course it's impossible to accurately predict the future ?

Does anyone know, or has lived there, or checked out the Del Webb communities ? Are they TRUE private communities ? In other words, do visitors have to have permission of an owner to enter ? Can anyone go there for dinner (I think I was told "yes", it is a public restaurant/country club/ and golf course. I have never checked ..... Hard to find the actual details of the A. F. F. H. Bill, what I do find is disturbing. Mainly because it sounds so right, and true, and fair like America should be, but the details (those I can find ! ) seem very DARK ?