[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by Normal

For Sale By Owner FSBO has really come along with the introduction of Zillow and Redfin. I would look at those sites before offering 5% more for a home. It’s simple, just choose the filters you want and view the pics on line. If you are afraid of overpaying, just do the square footage price calculation. Check others being sold and decide for yourself.

Step 1 Go to Zillow and look
Step 2 Check homes selling that are similar Price divided by square feet
Step 3 Make an offer

It’s that simple

Home selling is almost as easy

Step 1 Take pictures of your house
Step 2 Log onto Zillow and upload your pics
Step 3 Accept an offer
Step 4 Choose a title company to do all the paperwork

Easiest Option…go with a flat rate seller in The Villages. Additional costs of up to 5k can be expected though.

Did you see the FSBO currently being advertised on TOTV? Price "reduced" to $349K. But, Zillow says it's only worth $321K, and it sold 2.5 years ago for $222K. The house is 24 years old.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

All this nonsense about bonds, baffle me. The Bond is nothing more than an additional cost when you buy a home in TV, new or pre-owned. It's not a "pay as you go" expense, unless you elect to do it that way ... in which case, you get an exorbitant interest rate and any associated fees. Along with the fact that it's legally not tax deductible.

WTH? If I home is $500,000 + $30,000 Bond, the true selling price is $530,000. It's not complicated.

Granted, not all pre-owned homes are identical, but if one has a $20,000 outstanding Bond, you're paying $20,000 more than the sale price.

Geez, it's 4th grade math.

Originally Posted by Altavia

Really?

A buyer who sells the home three years later passing the bond on does not pay $20K.

There are bonds from just a few years ago near 4%, you can easily earn more than that in investments or even CD's now days.

What if interest rates go back to +10%, would it have been smart to pay off the bond?

Where did I say it was smart or not smart to pay off a bond?

& if someone sells a home in 3 years, you're right ... he didn't pay $20,000 ... he/she paid the interests & costs and borrowed the money. Those "near 4% Bonds" you mentioned, were a great deal when you could borrow money at 3%, huh?

A bond is just another type of mortgage. You borrow the money and pay it back over time. The exact same considerations someone would make with a mortgage, is exactly what you'd do with a Bond. Weigh the interest rates and do what you think is prudent. It's just a mortgage that's secured differently. As someone else pointed out, it's not backed with a personal guaranty, but backed by it's priority lien, so it's not a "personal debt".

The one and only time I can think of, when a Bond is different than a mortgage from a Buyer's perspective, is when the financing ratio is tight. A Primary Lender who's selling mortgages on the secondary market, has Loan to Value ratios to worry about. A CDD Bond is a slightly different circumstance from that viewpoint. That said, it sort of washes itself out, as it affects income to expense ratios.

[Normal]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

Did you see the FSBO currently being advertised on TOTV? Price "reduced" to $349K. But, Zillow says it's only worth $321K, and it sold 2.5 years ago for $222K. The house is 24 years old.

Hey, there are plenty overpriced homes out there. Some are by realtor, some by The Villages, some BO. I get it. Most homes are coming off that 2022 wish list though lol. A realtor certainly doesn’t guarantee the lowest price.

Buyers do need to do their Homework. Prices are downward against last month’s comps.

Check out this clown show

Homefinder - The Villages(R) Homes and Villas for Sale


It was purchased in 21 for 799,990. Pardon Our Interruption Now asking 1.2 million.

Investment of a pool at 130 k. I think they are just wishing upon a star.

The house you mentioned was bought in 2021 for 222,000 dollars. What a joke! Now they want 350k!

[petsetc]

///

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by frayedends

Yup. I didn’t know the difference until I married a Realtor. I always said realtor for any real estate agent.

This is great article on the subject.

The obvious flaw in the situation, is the general use of REALTOR® as a noun and that will likely be the catalyst when they lose their trademark.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archi...-3032bf96dc3a/

[petsetc]

Originally Posted by Maker

Lots to consider about bonds, but please be aware there is a yearly administrative fee on the bond. That added amount is roughly 5% to 10% of the bond payment due. People often neglect that extra cost, but it can be significant when building the multi-year model of costs.
I pulled up a 30 year bond schedule at random. Totals:
Principle 22450 Int @4.3% 17300 Admin 2800 (about $95/yr) Total 42550 (admin fee added = 7.04% of prin + int)
Bond interest rates are much higher for new builds, but closer to this for recent builds.

Be careful here because if you pay your tax bill in November, the 4% discount applies to the total, including the bond, of which the bond holders are not eating the discount, it is made up by the admin fee.

[Daddymac]

Originally Posted by frayedends

That's true so if the buyer is paying cash it's definitely a benefit to have it paid. But if they pay cash and pay off the bond too I still think it's a wash. If you have 2 models exact same model and lot in the same location and one is 400K with no bond and the other has a 25K bond they probably will be listing for 375K.

That's really just my opinion but I'm sure people take into account bond value when setting a list price.

The home with the 375k and 25k bond would cost more in the long run. The 25k bond can not be written off. The 400k would be included in the mortgage payment…. Now you can write it off .

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by Normal

Hey, there are plenty overpriced homes out there. Some are by realtor, some by The Villages, some BO.


It was purchased in 21 for 799,990. Pardon Our Interruption Now asking 1.2 million.

Investment of a pool at 130 k. I think they are just wishing upon a star.

The market is mixed.

[frayedends]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

This is great article on the subject.

The obvious flaw in the situation, is the general use of REALTOR® as a noun and that will likely be the catalyst when they lose their trademark.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archi...-3032bf96dc3a/

Thanks Brian. That is a great article. I guess I understand why Retiredguy felt the need to respond to the use of the term realtor. From the article...

"Local NAR member associations nationwide are under orders to police uses of the word Realtor and intervene when necessary."

[Altavia]

Originally Posted by Normal

Hey, there are plenty overpriced homes out there. Some are by realtor, some by The Villages, some BO. I get it. Most homes are coming off that 2022 wish list though lol. A realtor certainly doesn’t guarantee the lowest price.

Buyers do need to do their Homework. Prices are downward against last month’s comps.

Check out this clown show

Homefinder - The Villages(R) Homes and Villas for Sale


It was purchased in 21 for 799,990. Pardon Our Interruption Now asking 1.2 million.

Investment of a pool at 130 k. I think they are just wishing upon a star.

The house you mentioned was bought in 2021 for 222,000 dollars. What a joke!

You may be on to something that we are headed for a buyers market...

[Altavia]

Originally Posted by petsetc

Be careful here because if you pay your tax bill in November, the 4% discount applies to the total, including the bond, of which the bond holders are not eating the discount, it is made up by the admin fee.

Nice observation, had not comprehended that.

[Dilligas]

Originally Posted by melpetezrinski

"Simple question What is the average real-world saving"
Simple answer - $30,000

That is dependent on the current bond value. If the home is 15 years old, at least half or more of the bond will be paid off. If the homes are new....then the bond value is the difference.

[Altavia]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

Where did I say it was smart or not smart to pay off a bond?

& if someone sells a home in 3 years, you're right ... he didn't pay $20,000 ... he/she paid the interests & costs and borrowed the money. Those "near 4% Bonds" you mentioned, were a great deal when you could borrow money at 3%, huh?

A bond is just another type of mortgage. You borrow the money and pay it back over time. The exact same considerations someone would make with a mortgage, is exactly what you'd do with a Bond. Weigh the interest rates and do what you think is prudent. It's just a mortgage that's secured differently. As someone else pointed out, it's not backed with a personal guaranty, but backed by it's priority lien, so it's not a "personal debt".

The one and only time I can think of, when a Bond is different than a mortgage from a Buyer's perspective, is when the financing ratio is tight. A Primary Lender who's selling mortgages on the secondary market, has Loan to Value ratios to worry about. A CDD Bond is a slightly different circumstance from that viewpoint. That said, it sort of washes itself out, as it affects income to expense ratios.

"Geez, it's 4th grade math." ;-)

Don't let the tail wag the dog.

[manaboutown]

"Realtor Real estate agent National Association of Realtors Often used by the public, the media, and even real estate agents to refer generally to any real estate agent, but the term is a legally recognized trademark of the National Association of Realtors. The terms "Realtor" and "Realtors" refer to members of this association, and not to real estate agents generally. The National Association of Realtors is engaged in ongoing efforts to prevent the mark from becoming generic. These efforts include, among other things, writing to members of the media to complain of improper usage, distribution of information and guidelines on correct usage, and the development of an educational video on the subject.[163]"

From: List of generic and genericized trademarks - Wikipedia

I have been guilty of using Xerox as a verb, and many of the listed marks such as Tupperware, Thermos, Scotch tape, Q-tips, post-it and Crock-Pot as nouns.

[CoupleNCA]

Finally! We now have a handle on the typical real-world savings of a bond vs. no bond. And also the tax considerations. And that maybe we need to re-think our realtor. We thank you all for your helpful insights.

Weirdly, our original concerns made us even more interested in The Villages. Your quick opinions and helpful responses in this forum are indicative of exactly the kinds of neighbors we'd like to be around.

Thanks again to everyone that answered our question.