[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

You may find some pre-owned houses like that, but my experience has been the opposite. Most older pre-owned houses I have viewed have not been well maintained or updated.

When I looked I found most have been. Just cause you brought new don’t mean you won’t have same problems few year into it.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy

We all know that, its obvious. . .



CDD bonds are not quite mortgages, but from a payer's point of view, the bond looks like or behaves like a mortgage with amortization identical to a mortgage, the payment concept is the same as a mortgage, and a lien against the property with the ability to foreclose against the property, like a mortgage.

A mortgage is a legal agreement by which a bank or other creditor lends money at interest in exchange for taking title of the debtor's property. The bond holders do not hold title to the property, and do not lend you the money.


good luck.

Thank you, I agree with you 90%.

You are correct, in that the "lender" does not have equitable title to the property, as they typically would with a mortgage. That said, property ownership rights are different in different states and not all mortgages grant equitable rights.

In the case of a Bond, the Lender did indeed lend money to the property owner. At the time, that owner was the Developer. The Developer then arranged for that loan to be assumed proportionally by the next owner (first home buyer), who could then pass it on to subsequent buyers.

Good language. It generally behaves as a mortgage, with some idiosyncrasies (ability to assume, inability to prepay a portion of principal, no personal note attached, no direct refinancing available).

If a home sells for $400,000 + a $40,000 Bond Debt, the home really sold for $440,00.

Or you could say, it sold for $400,000 + yearly "land rental fee", similar to renting a site at a Mobile Home Park.

In either characterization, it's not like having Fee Simple Title, free and clear of all liens & encumbrances.


I don't often agree with CoachKandSportsguy, but he's got a way better grasp on this situation, than most everyone else.

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by Altavia

Do you like earning interest?

If you had a 3% mortgage today, would you pay it off?

Unless you kept that bond money under a mattress, you'd earn more interest investing it.

Yes I like earning Interest, not paying. Especially when it does little to reduce principal.

[Normal]

It’s all on the builder. Bonds are high because the builder freeloads off the county. If The Developer paid impact fees in line with the rest of the state, this discussion would be moot. Average impact fees in the state of Florida for 2023 were about 27,000, but not for our Developer.

[Laker14]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

You may find some pre-owned houses like that, but my experience has been the opposite. Most older pre-owned houses I have viewed have not been well maintained or updated.

Well, you don't buy those. You buy the good ones.
And the bigger point was that just because the house still has a bond, that doesn't mean the parts that are going to wear out aren't well on their way to doing so.

What is the term of the bond? 20 years? 30 years?
How long do the HVAC, or the roof, or the kitchen appliances last?
How long is it before the cabinets and counters, and other decorative features become dated?

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by Normal

It’s all on the builder. Bonds are high because the builder freeloads off the county. If The Developer paid impact fees in line with the rest of the state, this discussion would be moot. Average impact fees in the state of Florida for 2023 were about 27,000, but not for our Developer.

Without CDD Bonds, The Villages would not exist ... nor would Lakewood Ranch.

CDD's were created by the Florida Legislature, to promote the development of land that was unlikely to be developed without incentives (the use has expanded in the last 15-20 years). It's a lot like electric cars. No one wants to buy them without government incentives and no one would have ever moved to The Villages, unless the government provided a way to subsidize the development and construction.

It's also a way for homes to appear to be priced for less than they really are ... you're not paying all the land cost up front.

Impact Fees and CDD Bonds, are apples & oranges. The average per home cost of Impact Fees in Florida, is slightly under $10,000/unit.

[kansasr]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

Without CDD Bonds, The Villages would not exist ... nor would Lakewood Ranch.

CDD's were created by the Florida Legislature, to promote the development of land that was unlikely to be developed without incentives (the use has expanded in the last 15-20 years). It's a lot like electric cars. No one wants to buy them without government incentives and no one would have ever moved to The Villages, unless the government provided a way to subsidize the development and construction.

It's also a way for homes to appear to be priced for less than they really are ... you're not paying all the land cost up front.

Impact Fees and CDD Bonds, are apples & oranges. The average per home cost of Impact Fees in Florida, is slightly under $10,000/unit.

And for the Developer in Sumter County it's only $972 in The Villages.

Road Impact Fee Schedules | Sumter County, FL - Official Website

[Normal]

Originally Posted by kansasr

And for the Developer in Sumter County it's only $972 in The Villages.

Road Impact Fee Schedules | Sumter County, FL - Official Website

Yes, we could cherry pick like B.i.n.9 does or get down to the brass tacks, the Developer throws the impact fee on everyone but himself!

[GoRedSox!]

Originally Posted by Normal

Yes, we could cherry pick like B.i.n.9 does or get down to the brass tacks, the Developer throws the impact fee on everyone but himself!

This is one of the most successful and visionary developers in the history of development. They created everything and it's quite something what it has become and what it's going to continue to be. I know the developer takes criticism on this site from time to time, but quite honestly, they have created a beautiful retirement community here and the people are happier generally than any place I've been.

[Normal]

Originally Posted by GoRedSox!

This is one of the most successful and visionary developers in the history of development. They created everything and it's quite something what it has become and what it's going to continue to be. I know the developer takes criticism on this site from time to time, but quite honestly, they have created a beautiful retirement community here and the people are happier generally than any place I've been.

Not criticizing, just stating the facts. You shouldn’t take objectivity so personally. It was smart to go to Webster and DeSantis to have the laws written for business profits. Who can argue that paying less than 1000 dollars in impact fees per house isn’t shrewd? I have nothing against The Developer or living here. Besides, the employees love this time of year with the bonuses and end of year Christmas party. Just don’t drink only The Villages cool aide. Stick to a balanced diet.

The plus side is there was someone to pick up the pieces of so many developments that were opened, but lacked closure plans. Yes, some of it was competitive in nature, but things got done. The Villages did that very well!

[Altavia]

Originally Posted by GoRedSox!

This is one of the most successful and visionary developers in the history of development. They created everything and it's quite something what it has become and what it's going to continue to be. I know the developer takes criticism on this site from time to time, but quite honestly, they have created a beautiful retirement community here and the people are happier generally than any place I've been.

And thanks to the development, Sumter County has maintained the lowest tax rate in the region. Largely due to adding 2-3 billion dollars of incremental residential homes to the tax base.

At the end of the day, the buyers pay no matter how you slice the cake.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

In the case of a Bond, the Lender did indeed lend money to the property owner. At the time, that owner was the Developer. The Developer then arranged for that loan to be assumed proportionally by the next owner (first home buyer), who could then pass it on to subsequent buyers.

I don't often agree with CoachKandSportsguy, but he's got a way better grasp on this situation, than most everyone else.

True on who the bond holders lended the money initially.

Thank you on the compliment. . I try to keep it simple so I can understand it.

[Altavia]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

Impact Fees and CDD Bonds, are apples & oranges. The average per home cost of Impact Fees in Florida, is slightly under $10,000/unit.

Maybe I'm missing something but it looks like other than regional roads, most of the things on the impact fee schedule are initially paid for by the developer and bonds? Including the schools.

[Papa_lecki]

Originally Posted by Normal

It’s all on the builder. Bonds are high because the builder freeloads off the county. If The Developer paid impact fees in line with the rest of the state, this discussion would be moot. Average impact fees in the state of Florida for 2023 were about 27,000, but not for our Developer.

If the developer paid higher impact this discussion would be moot

The developer would roll the impact fees into the price of the house and our houses would be $40,000 higher - we would be paying for the fees in our mortgage.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by Altavia

Maybe I'm missing something but it looks like other than regional roads, most of the things on the impact fee schedule are initially paid for by the developer and bonds? Including the schools.

That is mostly correct.

There's a big giant leap from "cost of infrastructure" to "impact fees".

In simple terms, the CDD Bonds fund the new infrastructure and the Impact Fees cushion the blow on the existing infrastructure. That's a gross simplification, but that's the general theory.