[hosegooseman]

Originally Posted by twoplanekid

I asked this question of staff->

I heard a rumor from Bruce that the gate card system in the Villages is going to change. Be forewarned that I have been giving out and using the devices that are placed in car mirrors to activate the gates for over a year.

So, please tell me the reason for the change and why my cards will no longer work. Is there a way that these cards can still work?

I believe that the using the old cards and having to wave them out an open car window is archaic in this electronic age. So, if changes are made when will we receive a device that will automatically raise gates without human interaction?

A very large number of Villagers may be upset when they find out these (auto open) cards no longer work and then need to go back to the old, old way.
I am sorry that this change was not highlighted in a newsletter to let people know that this change was going to take place.

I hope you have some good news for me about this issue as it looks very bad at this point in time.​

and ->
One additional questions about data if collected. What data is collected , who has access to the data and data collected is used for what purpose.
I thought long ago that I was told no data was collected nor retained by the gate card system and not talking about the security cameras at the gates.

Thanks again,


they responded by saying ->


Thank you for reaching out regarding the gate access control system upgrade. This project was approved in September, with support from the Amenity Authority Committee, Project Wide Advisory Committee and the Village Center and Sumter Landing CDDs.

The District has been seeking a new software vendor for a number of years to replace the existing system. As growth continued year after year in concert with the volume of card reads at the gates, the incoming data began to overburden and, at times, exceed the capacity of the existing software database. As a result, there are instances of unauthorized cards successfully opening gates; when the new system is in place, only properly credentialed cards will open the gates.

The District identified Software House C-Cure as a viable alternative to replace the existing software. This software provides a robust and expandable access control system. The capacity of the database is capable of storing one (1) million gate cards and it is administered through one centralized database. An additional benefit to Software House C-Cure is that the software is compatible with nearly all existing peripheral equipment at the gate locations – motors, readers, arms, loops, network electronics etc. In addition, all gate cards issued by the District will continue to work. By implementing this solution, only the controller itself would be replaced.

The access control system at the gates continues to serve a vital role in the community with regard to traffic management, calming and monitoring. The benefits of proper management of the access control system will further enhance the overall management of gate card data, prevent card duplication and provide more robust reporting capabilities. This is a significant benefit to residents, Staff and local law enforcement agencies. Gate card transactions are utilized to understand the volume on certain roadways, identification of individuals in the event property is damaged, and law enforcement routinely asks for reporting at specific locations.

There are certain areas in the community, such as the RV lots, that have limited access and require specific credentials assigned to the gate card. Regardless of the type of access, the District does not condone the unauthorized duplication of cards. When cards are assigned, they are tied to a specific residence or contractor based on the credentials. As with any access control system, it is not expected that these would be duplicated since it would also unnecessarily burden the volume of cards in the system.

The AAC and PWAC both expressed interest in exploring options to improve the method in which the gates are activated, including the type of devices and/or methods for opening a gate arm. The first step in the project is to upgrade the back-end software. Once that is accomplished, Staff will be communicating the Committees/Boards on other opportunities to enhance the functionality of the gates.

I then replied ->

I totally disagree with this assessment and wish that a public discussion had taken place. I understand that access control systems at the gates serve to slow traffic and let golf carts cross. However many of your other comments I would question.

The few that need restricted access to RV lots could have been given special cards. What other areas and how many other Villagers are affected compared to the total Village population?

You never answered my question as to how much detailed data the system is keeping on people accessing public roads. We are not a gate restricted community.

If the volume of individual cards that a new system can handle is 1 million, then what’s the big deal about duplicates? Plus, the cards are cloned to one that is already in the system. I don’t under this concern about duplicates. What are the specific benefits to the public in this new change other than making many thousands of duplicate cards not function?
CLONED CARDS WILL NOT WORK???

I again ask what data is collected and who has access to this data. Is this data used by public or private firms? Can I access the data? A private or public firm is the only one assigning gate cards at this time? Please note that I am not discussing the gate cameras. I believe cameras which are now located at the gates help identify individuals for law enforcement and not gate cards as you suggest.

What is the total cost of the new system for both hardware and software going to be for residents? This change to the gate management system should have been presented and discussed at a large public meeting with details in the paper and on the district website beforehand.

I am on the NSCUDD board and have always advocated for preannounced large public discussions of changes we make that affect the public. NSCUDD has held many advertised large public meetings to discuss changes and I am proud we have done so because that is the way it should be done.

a link to details on the contracts found on districtgov.org

Coversheet

Cloned cards are not an authorized device. The “mirror” installation is a convenience not a right.

If an upgrade is needed to make sure the rest of the authorized system works properly, then go ahead.

Maybe you could pay again and clone it again?

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

No need to remember, there's the actual quote from the website. Notice what's missing from this quote: "except for people who want to just clone existing cards so that homeowners and guests and tenants don't have to go through the trouble of doing it the way we, the owners of these gates, want them to."

That's missing from that quote. So - a reasonable, intuitive, somewhat intelligent person would think "Hmm - they didn't say that there were any exceptions to the rule. I want my case to be an exception. I should either a) accept that I'm not an exception or b) contact the CDD and ask if I can be an exception."

Everyone else - will think they're more important than the rules, and do as they please.

According the The Villages customer service office, there is no rule that prohibits the use of a cloned gate card on your vehicle mirror.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by hosegooseman

Cloned cards are not an authorized device. The “mirror” installation is a convenience not a right.

If an upgrade is needed to make sure the rest of the authorized system works properly, then go ahead.

Maybe you could pay again and clone it again?

Cloned gate cards on your mirror are authorized in that there is no rule that prohibits them. They are planning to change the gate card system which will be designed to cause cloned cards to no longer function sometime during first quarter of next year. But, even then, there will still be no rule prohibiting the cloned cards. This information was obtained from the Villages customer service office.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by fdpaq0580

Maybe you need a different car? Or replace the electric window with a manual one?

Maybe it was two different cars?

[billethkid]

[QUOTE=Bill14564;2146779]Which is incorrect:
1. The information is on the website
2. The link was provided
3. You didn't take the time to read it

Your post asserted I did not read the information.....THAT i s what was/is incorrect.

I am in the majority that ask questions to seek an answer.

-______________________________________

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

According the The Villages customer service office, there is no rule that prohibits the use of a cloned gate card on your vehicle mirror.

Even though this has been posted several times, there are still some who cannot grasp this concept...

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by fdpaq0580

Maybe you need a different car? Or replace the electric window with a manual one?

I don't think it would be possible to replace an electric window with a manual one. Or, if you could, it would cost a lot more than $360, and would be more likely to malfunction over time.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

According the The Villages customer service office, there is no rule that prohibits the use of a cloned gate card on your vehicle mirror.

Originally Posted by JMintzer

Even though this has been posted several times, there are still some who cannot grasp this concept...

That also means that The Villages has no obligation to make sure "cloned cards" will continue to work nor supply any sort of "support" to continue their usage.

If Villages' upgrades make existing clones obsolete and someone's "side gig" gets harmed in the process ... tough luck.

[billethkid]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

Originally Posted by retiredguy123



"If Villages' upgrades make existing clones obsolete and someone's "side gig" gets harmed in the process ... tough luck."

They will just have to rough it and push the little red button

______________________________________________

[Altavia]

Originally Posted by billethkid

They will just have to rough it and push the little red button

______________________________________________

I installed one of these on my mirror to hit the red button :-)

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by CosmicTrucker

This works for me as well. I keep the card in my wallet and simply hold my wallet up to my closed window and it opens the gate every time.

We keep our gate card in the slot on the sun visor of our car. Works for me every time when I hold the card up to the closed window.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by SusanStCatherine

I've tried holding my gate card up to and against the closed car window about five separate times and it hasn't worked once.

You need to pull close enough to the card reader. I'm so used to it and I know where I need to be when I pull up to the gate reader. I understand it is the same deal with those card cloned strips that are installed in the side view mirrors.

[Bilyclub]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

According the The Villages customer service office, there is no rule that prohibits the use of a cloned gate card on your vehicle mirror.



That also means that The Villages has no obligation to make sure "cloned cards" will continue to work nor supply any sort of "support" to continue their usage.

If Villages' upgrades make existing clones obsolete and someone's "side gig" gets harmed in the process ... tough luck.

Or after the update the cloners will have a whole lot of business from all the old customers who now need a different cloned thing to save their window motors.

[EdFNJ]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

Cloned gate cards on your mirror are authorized in that there is no rule that prohibits them. They are planning to change the gate card system which will be designed to cause cloned cards to no longer function sometime during first quarter of next year. But, even then, there will still be no rule prohibiting the cloned cards. This information was obtained from the Villages customer service office.

Until EVERY PERSON'S CARD in The Villages is replaced, I highly doubt cloned cards will stop working because if they are CLONED they will be identical to the original old cards which will continue to work. Can't see how they can be separated. If you read the specs on the cards they use the only codes on the cards which are the assigned numbers and the reader system just reads that. There is no "hidden" non-copyable sub-code they can read that isn't part of the "clone" process, and until they change every card from every person and THEN turn on a new system they should likely continue to work. If someone hands out generic nonexistent codes to people which will work THAT they can track if they really want to look at the thousands of photos (assuming the cameras actually still work) to find the car connected to the faked code.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by twoplanekid

I sent this to Brittany Wilson _>

Hi Brittany,

I still have these two questions.

To give me a total picture of the costs, what are the total costs? I understand about the cost savings per year.

Do you know if the current cloned gate cards will still work?

Maybe this is much ado about nothing yet could have been avoided if better/more public information had be given out beforehand in my opinion.

I received this reply back from Brittany Wilson ->

ood morning,

The recurring annual cost for gate maintenance is $97,884. The one time cost to upgrade the system software is $270,255. These costs are split proportionately between Village Center, Sumter Landing and Developer owned gates.

The only cards that will work in the new system are those that are active in our current system when they are migrated over.

Thank you,
Brittany

then I sent ->
Hi Brittany,

When will this migration take place? Is it one gate at a time or when all gates has been migrated that the cloned cards will not work?

Rick

received from Brittany -->

Good afternoon,

This project will take approximately 24 weeks, with a six week lead time on equipment. Each gate will be converted one at a time, and we will run the two systems as the work takes place. With that said, both systems will not be operated at the same location at the same time – each gate will be on one system or the other.

my last message and waiting on a reply from staff (Brittany)->

Are you going to let the Villagers that have cloned cards and the people that are selling them know about your stopping their cards from working? And, is there a gate that I can test my cloned card on to make sure it doesn't work?

Now everyone knows as much as I do about this situation. Please note that all of the communication took place in a public domain messaging system maintained by the District.

But......the cloned cards are currently active and currently do work so why won't they work with the new system? This is what is confusing to me.