Talk of The Villages Florida

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-   The Villages, Florida, General Discussion (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/)
-   -   Not happy with changes to the gate card system (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/not-happy-changes-gate-card-system-335899/)

retiredguy123 10-14-2022 06:14 AM

I haven't heard a logical explanation of why a gate card has a better function than the red button and a camera.

And, if you want security, why not have a 24-hour surveillance camera at every gate? No cards or buttons needed. Just a time delay to open the gate and to prevent two vehicles from going through at the same time.

twoplanekid 10-14-2022 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoosierPa (Post 2146676)
Be careful or Brittany may block you when her boss finds out here work isn’t getting done because of all the emails with you and others

:icon_wink:
😊

District staff are very good people and dedicated to helping the Villages be the best place for us to live in during our remaining years. When discussing this issue with Bruce after an NSCUDD board meeting, he suggested that I contact Brittany to find the answers to my questions. If you ever attend a NSCUDD board meeting, you will discover that I do ask a lot of questions trying to be as well informed as I can be.

Even Kenny her boss is a good person.:)

Altavia 10-14-2022 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fdpaq0580 (Post 2146634)
Why don't we all put the cards away and just hit the button. Unless our individual movements are being traced for some reason, what function do the cards really serve??? If the button/camera is good enough security for the general public, why do residents need extra I'd/card to enter?

Interesting question.

Why the concern over the duplication of a key that opens an unlocked door?

What is your info linked to the card being used for?

Bill14564 10-14-2022 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by retiredguy123 (Post 2146688)
I haven't heard a logical explanation of why a gate card has a better function than the red button and a camera.

And, if you want security, why not have a 24-hour surveillance camera at every gate? No cards or buttons needed. Just a time delay to open the gate and to prevent two vehicles from going through at the same time.

I haven't heard or read an explanation but I've seen one in action. I watched while the driver in front of me took off their seatbelt and stepped out of the car because they weren't close enough to reach the red button. This was amusing once or twice but I fear it would become a regular occurrence if the red button was the only option.

A security camera taking photos and a delayed gate would be more convenient. I wonder what the cost would be to implement that at 200+ gates. Maybe that is one of the upgrades they are considering after the new controller boards are installed.

NoMoSno 10-14-2022 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by retiredguy123 (Post 2146688)
I haven't heard a logical explanation of why a gate card has a better function than the red button and a camera.

And, if you want security, why not have a 24-hour surveillance camera at every gate? No cards or buttons needed. Just a time delay to open the gate and to prevent two vehicles from going through at the same time.

Cameras do run 24/7 on a loop.
A common misconception is that cameras are activated by pushing the red button.
That's how they catch gate crashers that don't push the button.

sowilts 10-14-2022 07:37 AM

Used all the methods, my Younger Brother told me to just put the card on the window and it works. Use that method now. I do roll my window down from time to time and they still work after three years. Great place to live and would not retire anywhere else. Paradise. Buy a convertible it works so easy with the top down. Sun is shining and is going to be another fantastic day. twoplanedkid seems to post great info and wants to improve how individuals access gates. Good for him. Cheers Oldman. (that's what the called me at work). Customers called me lots more name's.

Steve 10-14-2022 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dewilson58 (Post 2146359)
OOOOOOOOOOO, but we are:

What is meant by gated community?
Definition of gated community

: a group of homes that are surrounded by a gated wall, fence, or other physical barrier.


what does it matter?!?!?!?

This topic is like dog poop..........it smells.

Please feel free to leave this thread at your earliest convenience.

Steve 10-14-2022 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garywt (Post 2146176)
I guess I don’t understand why so many people don’t have the ability to open their window.

Replacement window motor: $185-$360 (Replaced two since we moved here)

Mirror device: Pull up, wait 2 seconds, move on

Bill14564 10-14-2022 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve (Post 2146729)
Replacement window motor: $185-$360 (Replaced two since we moved here)

Mirror device: Pull up, wait 2 seconds, move on

Odd that many others haven't mentioned replacing window motors. You aren't the only one rolling your window down, I know I do it all the time and most of the cars in front of me do also. With 70,000+ homes and all the traffic and all the gates and all the people going through those gates you would expect hundreds of motors to need replacing every year.

A system that did not require rolling down a window would be better. This system *might* work through the window (it does for some). Perhaps once this upgrade is completed a mirror device will be investigated but it is sure to come with a cost both to the CDDs/PWAC and to each resident who desires to use it.

billethkid 10-14-2022 08:26 AM

But what does the $270,000 upgrade provide and why?

Who is promoting this upgrade? Why?

$270,000!!!!!

___________________________________________

:censored:

Bill14564 10-14-2022 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billethkid (Post 2146745)
But what does the $270,000 upgrade provide and why?

Who is promoting this upgrade? Why?

$270,000!!!!!

___________________________________________

:censored:

That information is available from the PWAC page (link provided above) yet you haven't expended the effort to read it. Why?

charlieo1126@gmail.com 10-14-2022 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve (Post 2146729)
Replacement window motor: $185-$360 (Replaced two since we moved here)

Mirror device: Pull up, wait 2 seconds, move on

wow after living here for 22 years I’ve finally found a person who has had to replace his window motor ,AND NOT ONCE BUT TWICE ,all I can say is WOW

billethkid 10-14-2022 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2146756)
That information is available from the PWAC page (link provided above) yet you haven't expended the effort to read it. Why?

Incorrect assertion!

Bill14564 10-14-2022 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billethkid (Post 2146775)
Incorrect assertion!

Which is incorrect:
1. The information is on the website
2. The link was provided
3. You didn't take the time to read it

And if 3 is the incorrect assertion, then why are you asking questions without also providing the answers?

Big O 10-14-2022 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charlieo1126@gmail.com (Post 2146758)
wow after living here for 22 years I’ve finally found a person who has had to replace his window motor ,AND NOT ONCE BUT TWICE ,all I can say is WOW

I sold window regulators to the OEM's for 30 years. (Both mechanical and electric.) They are designed and tested to a B10 life of one million cycles. That means 90% of them could be cycled 100 times a day for 50 years. (Assuming proper use or accidents.) Please contact me if you have replaced twice, I need lottery tickets

twoplanekid 10-14-2022 10:04 AM

As I started this thread to alert Villagers about changes to the gate system, let me make these three points to present my current take on this situation at this moment in time.

If the numbers presented pan out to be true for future cost savings, the District CDDs should save money on some maintenance costs by making this change.

Will the cloned cards work after these changes are made? I still am not sure from the replays received from District staff and am still waiting on the answer to this question. “Are you going to let the Villagers that have cloned cards and the people that are selling them know about your stopping their cards from working? And, is there a gate that I can test my cloned card on to make sure it doesn't work?”

Why make Villagers go outside the system to have a better system (in my opinion) for activating the gates? If the cloned coin cards still work using the new system, why doesn’t the District provide the option of receiving coin cards from them that can be placed in car mirrors to activate the gates without human intervention? I will ask them that question!

charlieo1126@gmail.com 10-14-2022 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big O (Post 2146784)
I sold window regulators to the OEM's for 30 years. (Both mechanical and electric.) They are designed and tested to a B10 life of one million cycles. That means 90% of them could be cycled 100 times a day for 50 years. (Assuming proper use or accidents.) Please contact me if you have replaced twice, I need lottery tickets

I’m not the guy that had it replaced I’m the guy that was being SARCASTIC lol

fdpaq0580 10-14-2022 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve (Post 2146729)
Replacement window motor: $185-$360 (Replaced two since we moved here)

Mirror device: Pull up, wait 2 seconds, move on

Maybe you need a different car? Or replace the electric window with a manual one?

C4Boston 10-14-2022 10:22 AM

Those that abuse the rules are most often offended when the rules change.

fdpaq0580 10-14-2022 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve (Post 2146728)
Please feel free to leave this thread at your earliest convenience.

You don't appreciate all the valuable and informative and detailed observations? Well! Imagine that!

hosegooseman 10-14-2022 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twoplanekid (Post 2145829)
I asked this question of staff->

I heard a rumor from Bruce that the gate card system in the Villages is going to change. Be forewarned that I have been giving out and using the devices that are placed in car mirrors to activate the gates for over a year.

So, please tell me the reason for the change and why my cards will no longer work. Is there a way that these cards can still work?

I believe that the using the old cards and having to wave them out an open car window is archaic in this electronic age. So, if changes are made when will we receive a device that will automatically raise gates without human interaction?

A very large number of Villagers may be upset when they find out these (auto open) cards no longer work and then need to go back to the old, old way.
I am sorry that this change was not highlighted in a newsletter to let people know that this change was going to take place.

I hope you have some good news for me about this issue as it looks very bad at this point in time.​

and ->
One additional questions about data if collected. What data is collected , who has access to the data and data collected is used for what purpose.
I thought long ago that I was told no data was collected nor retained by the gate card system and not talking about the security cameras at the gates.

Thanks again,


they responded by saying ->


Thank you for reaching out regarding the gate access control system upgrade. This project was approved in September, with support from the Amenity Authority Committee, Project Wide Advisory Committee and the Village Center and Sumter Landing CDDs.

The District has been seeking a new software vendor for a number of years to replace the existing system. As growth continued year after year in concert with the volume of card reads at the gates, the incoming data began to overburden and, at times, exceed the capacity of the existing software database. As a result, there are instances of unauthorized cards successfully opening gates; when the new system is in place, only properly credentialed cards will open the gates.

The District identified Software House C-Cure as a viable alternative to replace the existing software. This software provides a robust and expandable access control system. The capacity of the database is capable of storing one (1) million gate cards and it is administered through one centralized database. An additional benefit to Software House C-Cure is that the software is compatible with nearly all existing peripheral equipment at the gate locations – motors, readers, arms, loops, network electronics etc. In addition, all gate cards issued by the District will continue to work. By implementing this solution, only the controller itself would be replaced.

The access control system at the gates continues to serve a vital role in the community with regard to traffic management, calming and monitoring. The benefits of proper management of the access control system will further enhance the overall management of gate card data, prevent card duplication and provide more robust reporting capabilities. This is a significant benefit to residents, Staff and local law enforcement agencies. Gate card transactions are utilized to understand the volume on certain roadways, identification of individuals in the event property is damaged, and law enforcement routinely asks for reporting at specific locations.

There are certain areas in the community, such as the RV lots, that have limited access and require specific credentials assigned to the gate card. Regardless of the type of access, the District does not condone the unauthorized duplication of cards. When cards are assigned, they are tied to a specific residence or contractor based on the credentials. As with any access control system, it is not expected that these would be duplicated since it would also unnecessarily burden the volume of cards in the system.

The AAC and PWAC both expressed interest in exploring options to improve the method in which the gates are activated, including the type of devices and/or methods for opening a gate arm. The first step in the project is to upgrade the back-end software. Once that is accomplished, Staff will be communicating the Committees/Boards on other opportunities to enhance the functionality of the gates.

I then replied ->

I totally disagree with this assessment and wish that a public discussion had taken place. I understand that access control systems at the gates serve to slow traffic and let golf carts cross. However many of your other comments I would question.

The few that need restricted access to RV lots could have been given special cards. What other areas and how many other Villagers are affected compared to the total Village population?

You never answered my question as to how much detailed data the system is keeping on people accessing public roads. We are not a gate restricted community.

If the volume of individual cards that a new system can handle is 1 million, then what’s the big deal about duplicates? Plus, the cards are cloned to one that is already in the system. I don’t under this concern about duplicates. What are the specific benefits to the public in this new change other than making many thousands of duplicate cards not function?
CLONED CARDS WILL NOT WORK???

I again ask what data is collected and who has access to this data. Is this data used by public or private firms? Can I access the data? A private or public firm is the only one assigning gate cards at this time? Please note that I am not discussing the gate cameras. I believe cameras which are now located at the gates help identify individuals for law enforcement and not gate cards as you suggest.

What is the total cost of the new system for both hardware and software going to be for residents? This change to the gate management system should have been presented and discussed at a large public meeting with details in the paper and on the district website beforehand.

I am on the NSCUDD board and have always advocated for preannounced large public discussions of changes we make that affect the public. NSCUDD has held many advertised large public meetings to discuss changes and I am proud we have done so because that is the way it should be done.

a link to details on the contracts found on districtgov.org

Coversheet

Cloned cards are not an authorized device. The “mirror” installation is a convenience not a right.

If an upgrade is needed to make sure the rest of the authorized system works properly, then go ahead.

Maybe you could pay again and clone it again?

retiredguy123 10-14-2022 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 2146517)
No need to remember, there's the actual quote from the website. Notice what's missing from this quote: "except for people who want to just clone existing cards so that homeowners and guests and tenants don't have to go through the trouble of doing it the way we, the owners of these gates, want them to."

That's missing from that quote. So - a reasonable, intuitive, somewhat intelligent person would think "Hmm - they didn't say that there were any exceptions to the rule. I want my case to be an exception. I should either a) accept that I'm not an exception or b) contact the CDD and ask if I can be an exception."

Everyone else - will think they're more important than the rules, and do as they please.

According the The Villages customer service office, there is no rule that prohibits the use of a cloned gate card on your vehicle mirror.

retiredguy123 10-14-2022 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hosegooseman (Post 2146829)
Cloned cards are not an authorized device. The “mirror” installation is a convenience not a right.

If an upgrade is needed to make sure the rest of the authorized system works properly, then go ahead.

Maybe you could pay again and clone it again?

Cloned gate cards on your mirror are authorized in that there is no rule that prohibits them. They are planning to change the gate card system which will be designed to cause cloned cards to no longer function sometime during first quarter of next year. But, even then, there will still be no rule prohibiting the cloned cards. This information was obtained from the Villages customer service office.

JMintzer 10-14-2022 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fdpaq0580 (Post 2146792)
Maybe you need a different car? Or replace the electric window with a manual one?

Maybe it was two different cars?

billethkid 10-14-2022 03:42 PM

[QUOTE=Bill14564;2146779]Which is incorrect:
1. The information is on the website
2. The link was provided
3. You didn't take the time to read it

Your post asserted I did not read the information.....THAT i s what was/is incorrect.

I am in the majority that ask questions to seek an answer.

-______________________________________

:censored:

JMintzer 10-14-2022 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by retiredguy123 (Post 2146833)
According the The Villages customer service office, there is no rule that prohibits the use of a cloned gate card on your vehicle mirror.

Even though this has been posted several times, there are still some who cannot grasp this concept...

retiredguy123 10-14-2022 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fdpaq0580 (Post 2146792)
Maybe you need a different car? Or replace the electric window with a manual one?

I don't think it would be possible to replace an electric window with a manual one. Or, if you could, it would cost a lot more than $360, and would be more likely to malfunction over time.

BrianL99 10-14-2022 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

According the The Villages customer service office, there is no rule that prohibits the use of a cloned gate card on your vehicle mirror.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMintzer (Post 2146862)
Even though this has been posted several times, there are still some who cannot grasp this concept...

That also means that The Villages has no obligation to make sure "cloned cards" will continue to work nor supply any sort of "support" to continue their usage.

If Villages' upgrades make existing clones obsolete and someone's "side gig" gets harmed in the process ... tough luck.

billethkid 10-14-2022 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianL99 (Post 2146900)
Originally Posted by retiredguy123



"If Villages' upgrades make existing clones obsolete and someone's "side gig" gets harmed in the process ... tough luck."

They will just have to rough it and push the little red button:a20:

______________________________________________
:censored:

Altavia 10-14-2022 06:41 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by billethkid (Post 2146902)
They will just have to rough it and push the little red button:a20:

______________________________________________
:censored:

I installed one of these on my mirror to hit the red button :-)

coffeebean 10-14-2022 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CosmicTrucker (Post 2146004)
This works for me as well. I keep the card in my wallet and simply hold my wallet up to my closed window and it opens the gate every time.

We keep our gate card in the slot on the sun visor of our car. Works for me every time when I hold the card up to the closed window.

coffeebean 10-14-2022 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SusanStCatherine (Post 2146010)
I've tried holding my gate card up to and against the closed car window about five separate times and it hasn't worked once.

You need to pull close enough to the card reader. I'm so used to it and I know where I need to be when I pull up to the gate reader. I understand it is the same deal with those card cloned strips that are installed in the side view mirrors.

Bilyclub 10-14-2022 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianL99 (Post 2146900)
Originally Posted by retiredguy123

According the The Villages customer service office, there is no rule that prohibits the use of a cloned gate card on your vehicle mirror.



That also means that The Villages has no obligation to make sure "cloned cards" will continue to work nor supply any sort of "support" to continue their usage.

If Villages' upgrades make existing clones obsolete and someone's "side gig" gets harmed in the process ... tough luck.


Or after the update the cloners will have a whole lot of business from all the old customers who now need a different cloned thing to save their window motors.

EdFNJ 10-14-2022 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by retiredguy123 (Post 2146837)
Cloned gate cards on your mirror are authorized in that there is no rule that prohibits them. They are planning to change the gate card system which will be designed to cause cloned cards to no longer function sometime during first quarter of next year. But, even then, there will still be no rule prohibiting the cloned cards. This information was obtained from the Villages customer service office.

Until EVERY PERSON'S CARD in The Villages is replaced, I highly doubt cloned cards will stop working because if they are CLONED they will be identical to the original old cards which will continue to work. Can't see how they can be separated. If you read the specs on the cards they use the only codes on the cards which are the assigned numbers and the reader system just reads that. There is no "hidden" non-copyable sub-code they can read that isn't part of the "clone" process, and until they change every card from every person and THEN turn on a new system they should likely continue to work. If someone hands out generic nonexistent codes to people which will work THAT they can track if they really want to look at the thousands of photos (assuming the cameras actually still work) to find the car connected to the faked code.

coffeebean 10-15-2022 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twoplanekid (Post 2146514)
I sent this to Brittany Wilson _>

Hi Brittany,

I still have these two questions.

To give me a total picture of the costs, what are the total costs? I understand about the cost savings per year.

Do you know if the current cloned gate cards will still work?

Maybe this is much ado about nothing yet could have been avoided if better/more public information had be given out beforehand in my opinion.

I received this reply back from Brittany Wilson ->

ood morning,

The recurring annual cost for gate maintenance is $97,884. The one time cost to upgrade the system software is $270,255. These costs are split proportionately between Village Center, Sumter Landing and Developer owned gates.

The only cards that will work in the new system are those that are active in our current system when they are migrated over.

Thank you,
Brittany

then I sent ->

Hi Brittany,

When will this migration take place? Is it one gate at a time or when all gates has been migrated that the cloned cards will not work?

Rick

received from Brittany -->

Good afternoon,

This project will take approximately 24 weeks, with a six week lead time on equipment. Each gate will be converted one at a time, and we will run the two systems as the work takes place. With that said, both systems will not be operated at the same location at the same time – each gate will be on one system or the other.

my last message and waiting on a reply from staff (Brittany)->

Are you going to let the Villagers that have cloned cards and the people that are selling them know about your stopping their cards from working?
And, is there a gate that I can test my cloned card on to make sure it doesn't work?

Now everyone knows as much as I do about this situation. Please note that all of the communication took place in a public domain messaging system maintained by the District.


But......the cloned cards are currently active and currently do work so why won't they work with the new system? This is what is confusing to me.

coffeebean 10-15-2022 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMintzer (Post 2146598)
Somebody didn't read the thread...

More than a few people (myself included) have stated that your method DOES NOT WORK in their cars...

That is unfortunate for you. Sorry, but mine works every time. And......I HAVE read every post in this thread so far.

coffeebean 10-15-2022 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMintzer (Post 2146599)

I am very friendly and very careful at the gates whether I'm driving a car or golf cart. I much prefer to wait until all vehicular traffic is clear before I proceed in my golf cart when waiting at the gates. I also do not proceed when a car driver waves at me to proceed. Cars have the right of way in that case. I do not make eye contact and will wait to proceed when traffic is cleared.

coffeebean 10-15-2022 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fdpaq0580 (Post 2146631)
That may have been me. I was referring to someone tailgating on the way IN, not out. Didn't know about the red button? Didn't have a card? Just to lazy or prissy to roll down their own window? This one I could forgive, had a broken arm?

Oh sorry, I misunderstood and thought you were referring to exiting. The gates come down waaaaaaay too quickly at the entrance to a village. That is how these gates get knocked off. I would never ever attempt to "tailgate" a car on the way in.

coffeebean 10-15-2022 02:43 AM

~~~

coffeebean 10-15-2022 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve (Post 2146728)
Please feel free to leave this thread at your earliest convenience.

I know where you are coming from. I was also put off by that comment. He said and I quote......"This thread is like dog poop. It smells". Not nice.


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