[GrayGoose]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...4067907.column

[rshoffer]

If I was in the research phase of a move to Florida and googled The Villages, and this popped up I seriously doubt that I'd move here. This has an ominous reverberation to it. Mark Morse avoided any discussion of this in his recent pep talk to the VHA.

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by rshoffer

If I was in the research phase of a move to Florida and googled The Villages, and this popped up I seriously doubt that I'd move here. This has an ominous reverberation to it. Mark Morse avoided any discussion of this in his recent pep talk to the VHA.

And what is it he could have said?

[GrayGoose]

Originally Posted by rshoffer

if i was in the research phase of a move to florida and googled the villages, and this popped up i seriously doubt that i'd move here. This has an ominous reverberation to it. Mark morse avoided any discussion of this in his recent pep talk to the vha.

you mean the fact that he sold the chatem rec center, and executive golf courses that cost 8 millons dollars to construct to the district for 50 million... I don't think i would mention that either if i were he.

[conn8757]

I have to say I am a little "worried" about it, despite the don't worry, be happy attitude of some. I am moving to TV because of the amenities and would hate to see them cut. I certainly don't understand it all, but wish it would be resolved before I take ownership of our home, but it doesn't sound like that is going to happen.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by GrayGoose

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...4067907.column

You have misspelled Orlando Sentinel. It is correctly spelled Orlando Slantinel.

I agree with Bogie shooter as I usually do. There is nothing to be said at this point. It is all under investigation.

I am worried, a little, because the developer is a Republican....and I truly hate to say that. He was a favorite of the last administration, but now I wonder how the new folks in power feel about the family.Plus I imagine that taxes have to be collected from somewhere to pay for all this bailing out.

edited after reading rsandstroms post following.
(Personally I think the world of the Morse family and for the record. I am a Republican.)

[downeaster]

For those who haven't been following this refer to Janet Ruut's article here IRS Bond Issue from Janet Tutt

There are other threads about this, in fact it has been beaten to death.

As to the 8 mil/ 50 mil subject. The figures may or may not be accurate. However, property is sold and purchased based on potential income stream, not the cost of producing it. As a licensed broker who years ago struggled through the state real estate brokers exam, I am painfully aware of this. There is a formula for arriving at a sales price. I committed it to memory, passed the exam and forgot it.

I am not defending those actions but this is the way business is conducted. If the price paid was unjustly inflated I am surprised that some legal action hasn't been taken. Maybe something is in the works.

It would be nice if this was a simple subject. However is very complex.

[Advogado]

Originally Posted by downeaster

For those who haven't been following this refer to Janet Ruut's article here IRS Bond Issue from Janet Tutt

There are other threads about this, in fact it has been beaten to death.

As to the 8 mil/ 50 mil subject. The figures may or may not be accurate. However, property is sold and purchased based on potential income stream, not the cost of producing it. As a licensed broker who years ago struggled through the state real estate brokers exam, I am painfully aware of this. There is a formula for arriving at a sales price. I committed it to memory, passed the exam and forgot it.

I am not defending those actions but this is the way business is conducted. If the price paid was unjustly inflated I am surprised that some legal action hasn't been taken. Maybe something is in the works.

It would be nice if this was a simple subject. However is very complex.

Downeaster:
Legal action was, in fact, taken. For more information, go to http://www.poa4us.org/ Click on "Lawsuit Settlement".

[SABRMnLgs]

I feel a lot of worry is over nothing. If you look closely you will not see any person from the Villages name on the IRS cheat sheet. The only name involved in this scam is Morse. If he has to pay so be it. He did the deen, no one else. Now he got caught so only he should have to pay the piper.

[rshoffer]

Are realtors who are selling homes in TV, whether realtors from Properties of the Villages or private realtors, required to disclose this percolating issue to potential homebuyers?

[Hadleyite]

There is so much complexity to this issue, it's hard to discuss in the meanderings of a discussion board or newspaper article.

The agent who reviewed the tax status of the bonds was greatly concerned with the legal status used by The Villages VCCDD to justify their use in that manner.

As an example, he states, "What is the District in terms of tax exempt bonds? It's really nothing more than a five member governing board populated with Developer employees or related parties that have a history of approving an unlimited amount of tax-exempt bonds to purchase assets from the Developer that in the real world would never pass scrutiny as arms length transactions. "

I can not see how that is not an accurate reflection of much of what took place.

We talk about purchasing cash flow of our amenites ( and they are our amenities fees, not the developers) , yet the excessive prices paid to purchase actual physical entities which do not generate real, ,substantial cash flow are somehow tied to the purchase of the rights to our amenity fees.

I love it here as much as anyone, and would not live anywhere else, but these tactics have been used to enrich the developer, not for the our benefit.

The AAC, which deals with the use of the amenity money in disricts 1-4 was created as the result of the settlement of a lawsuit, not out of an altruistic desire by the Developer for us to have more control in the use of our funds.

[billethkid]

do that which will enrich the developer or the corporation. If and when there is benefit for both the customer as well as the developer/corporation it makes life more acceptable.

As for the issue of Morse being a Republican thus bringing problems upon him and TV is a real stretch of political implication.

The actions legal or otherwise have nothing to do with ones political affiliation. As history and the current cross section of office holders portray, the wrong is done by ANY WARM BODIED INCUMBENT.

The rumor mill is this subjects worst proponent.

BTK

[iaudit]

As a former internal auditor for a major steel company (who is now unfortunately bankrupt and out of business), I have read many documents such as those written by both parties in this dispute. There were many times that I uncovered significant issues that I believed should be corrected BUT when the issue was brought to someone further up the food chain, the finding was deleted from the final audit report, sometimes without any discussion among the auditors. Good old politics was alive and well in corporate America also, which is probably why Bethlehem Steel is now bankrupt. So, what is my point?

The same type of thing can happen here. My take on the original finding is that the agent was presented a good case, though the subsequent response to the district's explanations was not necessarily written in a professional manner. In any event, the final determination will probably be made by someone else higher up in the IRS's bureaucracy and some politician. When the original review was done in 2003, there was a different party in charge than there is now. Should this make a difference, legally no, but in actual practice - don't kid yourself.

What will eventually happen? Here is what I think:

If the developer believes that the District Government, which is legally separated from him but is so intertwined that any reasonable person will conclude that he calls the shots, has a poor case, he will step up and reimburse the District Government to make them whole. If not, he has a terrible public relations matter on his hands while he tries to develop the remaining land in the Villages. He is probably looking at lawsuits down the road that would cost him significantly more than the penalties being proposed. The IRS settlement does not appear to impact the tremendous profit that he has made on the facilities that were sold or on any potential future sales on facilities south of 466.

How would the District government handle an adverse ruling without the developer's help? They legally can't raise the amenity fees but they can and will have to decrease the expenses related to the amenities, such as maintenance, hours of operation, staffing, etc.

Only time will tell what the final outcome will be.

[SteveZ]

I guess my problem with all of this is, what has changed since 2003 when the bonds in question were issued? What took so long for all of this to become an issue that wasn't known when the bond issue was reviewed by IRS then, the marketing and sale of the bonds, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, and 2008? When things take that long to be brought forward, it generates an aroma of its own.

The valuation of revenue-generating items is radically different than that of sedentary items. I have no idea if the valuation of what was sold by the developer is reasonable or not, and have yet to see a valuation by an estimator experienced in determining the worth of businesses. That's not to say there may still be a valuation discrepancy, but at least it would be closer to the mark than what's been insinuated so far.

I'm pleased that the developer has done well in TV and continues to do so. That usually means the continuation of good work, and this place is still better than any other "seasoned citizen" community I've found. I don't see the developer as a philanthropist whose role in life is to take care of strangers at his expense, anymore than any of us tend to work for free. The developer took the risks, and whatever profits the developer has made is no different than any other business.

Those persons who want to hold off or cancel any decision to move to TV because of the publicity on this bond matter, it is your choice. Due diligence in any purchase decision, especially one as important as moving a residence, is a prudent practice. That being said, "due diligence" usually isn't sole reliance on a couple of newspaper articles admitted to be written in a manner where objectivity is replaced by opinion and "slant."

The POA has been quite vigilant, and has done an excellent job in insuring that the contractual duties of all are fulfilled. Obviously, the POA shall continue its efforts in a responsible manner, especially in maintaining a positive relationship with the CCDs and the developer, as more is usually done in a positive relationship than a ltiigious one.

So, as this matter progresses, hopefully facts will take center-stage rather than rumors and innuendo.

[BJinTX]

Good Morning, We have been in the process of looking at The Villages for a year. The only reason we have not moved yet is my problem in not being able to get health insurance. There is a Federal law preventing transfer of health insurance across state lines. I am trying to contact and research that issue as much as possible.
But, now what is with this Orlando article? Is this something we need to worry about? How would that affect us?
Thank you. BJ