[DonH57]

Originally Posted by NoMoSno

I agree...

I agree as well. I was surprised they have not before. I came thru there last year during rainy season and the no trepass signs Duke had up were down and you could see the cart tracks cutting behind the sub station fence from carts trying to avoid to normal trail due to deep puddles. I thought to myself " this will be closed up soon".

[DonH57]

Originally Posted by Steve9930

You can see the property on the Sumter Property WEB sight using GIS but to answer your question. Mr. Browns Property is all the property North of the new Harbor Chase, behind the business on 441/27, and up to the road next to Lowes. Mr. Brown owns all that property.

The other piece of property that people cross across is the property between Aldis and Wal-Mart. It is owned by Duke Energy. Duke Energy was going to fence it off and stop the cart traffic after they received two bills for Golf Cart damage that was done on their property while going to Wal-Mart. Fortunately they so far have not followed through with the change. Wal-Mart and Duke are still hashing it over.

OK. Thanks Steve.

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by linko38

I have lived in wonderful Stonecrest for over five years. We were always allowed into the Villages by golf cart until the gate went up. As far as I know there was not utter Chaos and Mass hysteria because a few carts crossed their paths. We did this only on a few occasions. Not all residents own golf carts so your figures are way off. Drive through Stonecrest someday and you will see how small and peaceful we are as a community. It was much quicker to get through without the gate. I think this is why its broken often. We experience the same thing here. Retirees to impatient to wait for a gate to open fully. This is all utter nonsense. Sounds like the Hatfields and McCoys!

I certainly hope not. That started over a stolen pig and ended up in murder. The only similarity is the beginning, where one wanted what the other owned.

[Steve9930]

Originally Posted by DonH57

I agree as well. I was surprised they have not before. I came thru there last year during rainy season and the no trepass signs Duke had up were down and you could see the cart tracks cutting behind the sub station fence from carts trying to avoid to normal trail due to deep puddles. I thought to myself " this will be closed up soon".

Before I left for Ohio I had seen where they had moved the sign in the center of the new path people were trying to make behind the sub-station. I don't care about Paradise Gate but if Duke Energy cuts the access off then I loose cart access to everything South up to Paradise Gate. If that happens there are going to be many people upset, including me.

[Carl in Tampa]

Originally Posted by Steve9930

Well Carl he is one of the best in the business and has an excellent track record. The practical part of the equation is no one will ever be charged with trespassing while using the cart paths and there would never be a prosecution of someone that entered the villages via card access or not invited by another villager to enter.

I have given you some suggestions as to how you can fix your gate problem. They can implement them or not. Its not my money being wasted.

1. That defense attorney doesn't work for free. Even clients who "win" end up losing money.

2. The "exit" gate for The Villages homeowners must involve use of their card. An exit gate that works by magnetic fields or other means can be easily opened by someone wanting to enter illegally.

If damaging the gate becomes a major problem the CDD can hire an off-duty officer for surveillace, and very possibly apprehend someone committing a criminal act.

As I've said before, the technology exists; only motivation to act is required.

[Steve9930]

Originally Posted by Carl in Tampa

1. That defense attorney doesn't work for free. Even clients who "win" end up losing money.

2. The "exit" gate for The Villages homeowners must involve use of their card. An exit gate that works by magnetic fields or other means can be easily opened by someone wanting to enter illegally.

If damaging the gate becomes a major problem the CDD can hire an off-duty officer for surveillace, and very possibly apprehend someone committing a criminal act.

As I've said before, the technology exists; only motivation to act is required.

You could hire a guard at the gate and pay even more money needlessly. What are you trying to protect? As for the system you have there it is easily hacked and no one will know its hacked. The normal design of exit gates usually is done on an automatic sensor loop. The loop provides a safety factor for the person exiting and protection for the gate. There is also a sensor loop normally on the incoming side that is programmed to protect the gate and the individual but requires access verification for entry. These are the best practice engineering principles for these types of control system. So they can do as they please but until you fix the programing control on this gate it will continue to be broken over and over again. There should also be torque control on this gate. This is a system that monitors the torque on the closing mechanism and will reverse the gate in the event of an object in the path of the gate as it closes. If these controls are not implemented and someone is hurt by the gate you will loose the law suit. As you speak from experience in law enforcement, mine comes from over 40 years of engineering control systems.

[Carl in Tampa]

Originally Posted by Steve9930

You could hire a guard at the gate and pay even more money needlessly. What are you trying to protect? As for the system you have there it is easily hacked and no one will know its hacked. The normal design of exit gates usually is done on an automatic sensor loop. The loop provides a safety factor for the person exiting and protection for the gate. There is also a sensor loop normally on the incoming side that is programmed to protect the gate and the individual but requires access verification for entry. These are the best practice engineering principles for these types of control system. So they can do as they please but until you fix the programing control on this gate it will continue to be broken over and over again. There should also be torque control on this gate. This is a system that monitors the torque on the closing mechanism and will reverse the gate in the event of an object in the path of the gate as it closes. If these controls are not implemented and someone is hurt by the gate you will loose the law suit. As you speak from experience in law enforcement, mine comes from over 40 years of engineering control systems.

We are approaching the issue from different perspectives. You are assuming that the damage to the gate has been accidental. I, along (I believe) with Gracie and others, am assuming that damage to the gate has been vandalism committed by outsiders who resent the gate.

I did not suggest a gate guard, but rather a concealed law enforcement officer who would be prepared to make a criminal arrest in the case of deliberate vandalism.

After a couple of people get locked up for criminal mischief it is likely that damage to the gates will cease.

What is being protected is private property (the gate) and a unique lifestyle (The Village Lifestyle experience.)

I continue to be amazed by the inappropriate sense of entitlement by outsiders to use infrastructure which was not financed by them and which was not intended for their use.

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by Carl in Tampa

We are approaching the issue from different perspectives. You are assuming that the damage to the gate has been accidental. I, along (I believe) with Gracie and others, am assuming that damage to the gate has been vandalism committed by outsiders who resent the gate.

I did not suggest a gate guard, but rather a concealed law enforcement officer who would be prepared to make a criminal arrest in the case of deliberate vandalism.

After a couple of people get locked up for criminal mischief it is likely that damage to the gates will cease.

What is being protected is private property (the gate) and a unique lifestyle (The Village Lifestyle experience.)

I continue to be amazed by the inappropriate sense of entitlement by outsiders to use infrastructure which was not financed by them and which was not intended for their use.

[mickey100]

Originally Posted by Steve9930

You could hire a guard at the gate and pay even more money needlessly. What are you trying to protect? As for the system you have there it is easily hacked and no one will know its hacked. The normal design of exit gates usually is done on an automatic sensor loop. The loop provides a safety factor for the person exiting and protection for the gate. There is also a sensor loop normally on the incoming side that is programmed to protect the gate and the individual but requires access verification for entry. These are the best practice engineering principles for these types of control system. So they can do as they please but until you fix the programing control on this gate it will continue to be broken over and over again. There should also be torque control on this gate. This is a system that monitors the torque on the closing mechanism and will reverse the gate in the event of an object in the path of the gate as it closes. If these controls are not implemented and someone is hurt by the gate you will loose the law suit. As you speak from experience in law enforcement, mine comes from over 40 years of engineering control systems.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Carl in Tampa

We are approaching the issue from different perspectives. You are assuming that the damage to the gate has been accidental. I, along (I believe) with Gracie and others, am assuming that damage to the gate has been vandalism committed by outsiders who resent the gate.

I did not suggest a gate guard, but rather a concealed law enforcement officer who would be prepared to make a criminal arrest in the case of deliberate vandalism.

After a couple of people get locked up for criminal mischief it is likely that damage to the gates will cease.

What is being protected is private property (the gate) and a unique lifestyle (The Village Lifestyle experience.)

I continue to be amazed by the inappropriate sense of entitlement by outsiders to use infrastructure which was not financed by them and which was not intended for their use.

Excellent post. I wonder who is the most inflamed about all this? Who are the most vocal in opposition to this gate? Who would do something to hurt the villages and the developer? Who is almost obsessed with this issue? I see a DUCK walking. I think it is clear by the posts who thinks what.

[dirtbanker]

Originally Posted by linko38

I have lived in wonderful Stonecrest for over five years. We were always allowed into the Villages by golf cart until the gate went up. As far as I know...This is all utter nonsense...

If it was so wonderful why are you upset that you no longer have access to The Villages? Sell your place in SC and move to The Villages, you can have unlimited access to all the amenities, after all you will be paying for them (at that point you might change your tune about outsiders using what you pay for though).

Originally Posted by Steve9930

You could hire a guard at the gate and pay even more money needlessly. What are you trying to protect? .

Interesting statement there, leaves me wondering what SC'rs are protecting behind their guarded gates? I assume there is not much more than lighted pickleball courts, a retention pond, and one clubhouse pool (if there was much to do there, you would not be on here whining about access thru The Village gate). Why did you buy in SC if you wanted all the amenities of The Villages? The price? hmmm...



Is there no TOSC forum?

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by Steve9930

The discussion was not about a sign but about vehicles that are structurally identical yet treated differently. All a municipality has to do to allow a crossing is post the proper signage. A street legal cart can be used legally yet a golf cart cannot. That was what the original post was frustrated about.

That may be true for several of the gates, but the problem with carts crossing at Griffin and Avenida Central is that carts are not allowed out on to Griffin because, I believe that the speed limit there is too high for golf carts. It's not about crossing the intersection, it's about being able to get to where one can cross the intersection.

[Steve9930]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

That may be true for several of the gates, but the problem with carts crossing at Griffin and Avenida Central is that carts are not allowed out on to Griffin because, I believe that the speed limit there is too high for golf carts. It's not about crossing the intersection, it's about being able to get to where one can cross the intersection.

I agree with you it is about crossing the intersection. But look at it this way if I buy a street legal cart I can cross, if I have a Golf Cart I cannot. What is the difference structurally between these two vehicles?

[BobnBev]

Originally Posted by Carl in Tampa

We are approaching the issue from different perspectives. You are assuming that the damage to the gate has been accidental. I, along (I believe) with Gracie and others, am assuming that damage to the gate has been vandalism committed by outsiders who resent the gate.

I did not suggest a gate guard, but rather a concealed law enforcement officer who would be prepared to make a criminal arrest in the case of deliberate vandalism.

After a couple of people get locked up for criminal mischief it is likely that damage to the gates will cease.

What is being protected is private property (the gate) and a unique lifestyle (The Village Lifestyle experience.)

I continue to be amazed by the inappropriate sense of entitlement by outsiders to use infrastructure which was not financed by them and which was not intended for their use.

Carl, after so many years in law enforcement, I'm surprised you are amazed with anything!

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by BobnBev

Carl, after so many years in law enforcement, I'm surprised you are amazed with anything!

I think he expected grown up behavior when he got to this nice place.