[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

Huh? The Villages Billiards Club represents hundreds of pool players, and they have tried, as a group, to work with the Recreation Department to improve the billiard rooms. The problem is that the Recreation Department management just doesn't care. If you have other specific information to dispute that, then please share it. But, I am explaining the situation that is common knowledge within The Villages among the pool players. Apparently, people on this thread just want to propose a totally contrary viewpoint without any specific information to back it up. It is easy to just make stuff up.

IMO its the contractor and what the contract reads. Let’s the contractor get out of rail end pad replacement and just do limited job. Which not the contractors fault if he’s expected to do mediocre job.

[B-flat]

Originally Posted by Topspinmo

So, part timers says the table are adequate and expert on quality of billiard manufactures. I won’t go into the rest.

Maybe you should buy your own best quality table and place it in a room of your choice at home. Or maybe I’ve just played pool into too many dives bars and pool halls.

[billlaur]

cmon nothings going to change. Its been brought up before the recreation committee before,several times over the past 6 years,about better quality tables but has gone nowhere..we will just have to get used to these below average tables..

[Rango]

Originally Posted by JoMar

Assuming you live here.....you didn't know that before you bought here?

[Goldwingnut]

If there is a problem with the equipment then the correct course of action is to bring this issue to the PWAC and AAC so they can address it. I can tell you from first hand experience that in the 2+ years that PWAC has been tasked with oversight of amenities that pool tables have not been discussed by any public comments. There is a maintenance contract in place that takes care of the tables, if you think this is inadequate, express your concerns.

If you're looking for professional pool tables to be provided, it's not likely to happen. Just as it's unlikely that professional quality dance floors, professional quality basketball courts, professional quality tennis courts, or any other professional level facility. This level of facility is not the intent of the recreation facilities nor is there a budget for it. The amenities are designed to support the residents at large and not a small minority of any group that participate at an elite level.

Yes, we all have our own level of focused interest in our activities and unfortunately many feel their interest need to or should come first and above other priorities. There is a limited budget to maintain ALL the facilities here and the priorities have to be balanced among all of them. What extra we have to give to one will result in reductions or losses to one or many others. If you truly believe that there is a serious issue that needs to be addressed there are people listening and willing to act on them.

Just to be clear, the developer is out of the picture on the amenities operations throughout The Villages and for providing any additional amenities north of SR44, these responsibilities belong to the RAD (VCCDD/AAC) and SLAD (SLCDD/PWAC). Both have budgetary responsibilities and contributions to the Recreation Department to ensure a finite level of service is provided to the residents at large. The Recreation Department attempts to accommodate all the resident's needs but they are constrained by budgetary limitations and have to prioritize.

Again if you feel there is a serious or urgent need or shortfall in the facilities please bring them the to PWAC and AAC, they are the bodies that are your tools for changes. I will caution you that because they are responsible for all of the amenities, they may not ultimately share the same level of priority that you may have on your issue. That doesn't mean they didn't hear your concerns, that it isn't important, your input isn't valued, or that it won't be acted upon, it means that there were issues of high priority than what you wanted delivered or acted upon.

I cannot help after reading this thread but to reflect on current events, specifically the controversy over elimination of the deferral rate, and to find the irony in the NIMBY attitude of so many residents. The "don't raise my rate" or "don't make me live up to my contract" coming from one direction while the "I want more" and "this isn't good enough" comes from the other, many times it's the same people. In the years that I have been a district supervisor and a member of PWAC I cannot recall a single instance were a member of the public has stepped forward during the budgeting process to express their concerns or opinions. In these budget meetings and workshops every line item of the budget is gone over in detail and discussed, and yet no public input, for that matter I can't recall but 2 or 3 times in the last 5 years where a member of the general public even bothered to attend these meetings. I've seen such an outcry for transparency in the budget because of the deferral rate issue, it's there already, few have taken the effort to look.

Please take the time and effort to become involved in your local government, that's the only way it becomes better for everyone.

[Bogie Shooter]

Once again the facts and voice of reason is presented to us.
Thank you.

[blueash]

I am more than a bit confused by the complaints expressed here. One on hand we are told by some of those who are unhappy that the tables being purchased are too low a quality and for about the same price we could have "better" tables.

Billaur all they have are cheap tables all they have to do is go to another manufacturer ..we will just have to get used to these below average tables

Retiredguy123 It is not about the money The needed improvements would not cost additional money, but would greatly improve the billiard rooms The pool tables are not cheap tables, but they are lousy tables that could be replaced with much better tables for minimal additional money.

Or the tables are fine but the ongoing maintenance is poor. The repair companies are not aligning the pockets and re-doing the rails correctly. This is either because they are incompetent

getting the right contractor to do job correctly

or because they are under contract to not do the job they way the serious players believe it needs to be done.

IMO its the contractor and what the contract reads. Let’s the contractor get out of rail end pad replacement and just do limited job. Which not the contractors fault if he’s expected to do mediocre job.

And there are hundreds of players, including serious ones who have just taken up the game. And that the Villages has a " multi-million dollar investment in billiard rooms" So a multimillion dollars for hundreds of players. That is thousands per person including those serious one who just started playing.


So is the complaint that the Villages is cheap and/or that they spend thousands of dollars per person who plays billiards but does so unwisely? Are they buying the wrong tables, or the tables are fine but the repair and upkeep is poor? Maybe they have wised up and decided not to spend so much money when the serious players are so unhappy with the results. And that is why, as the original poster wrote, there has been no rush to install pool rooms below 44.

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by blueash

I am more than a bit confused by the complaints expressed here. One on hand we are told by some of those who are unhappy that the tables being purchased are too low a quality and for about the same price we could have "better" tables.






Or the tables are fine but the ongoing maintenance is poor. The repair companies are not aligning the pockets and re-doing the rails correctly. This is either because they are incompetent or because they are under contract to not do the job they way the serious players believe it needs to be done.

And there are hundreds of players, including serious ones who have just taken up the game. And that the Villages has a " multi-million dollar investment in billiard rooms" So a multimillion dollars for hundreds of players. That is thousands per person including those serious one who just started playing.


So is the complaint that the Villages is cheap and/or that they spend thousands of dollars per person who plays billiards but does so unwisely? Are they buying the wrong tables, or the tables are fine but the repair and upkeep is poor? Maybe they have wised up and decided not to spend so much money when the serious players are so unhappy with the results. And that is why, as the original poster wrote, there has been no rush to install pool rooms below 44.

Did you miss post #65?

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by B-flat

Maybe you should buy your own best quality table and place it in a room of your choice at home. Or maybe I’ve just played pool into too many dives bars and pool halls.

Maybe you just don’t know the difference

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by Goldwingnut

If there is a problem with the equipment then the correct course of action is to bring this issue to the PWAC and AAC so they can address it. I can tell you from first hand experience that in the 2+ years that PWAC has been tasked with oversight of amenities that pool tables have not been discussed by any public comments. There is a maintenance contract in place that takes care of the tables, if you think this is inadequate, express your concerns.

If you're looking for professional pool tables to be provided, it's not likely to happen. Just as it's unlikely that professional quality dance floors, professional quality basketball courts, professional quality tennis courts, or any other professional level facility. This level of facility is not the intent of the recreation facilities nor is there a budget for it. The amenities are designed to support the residents at large and not a small minority of any group that participate at an elite level.

Yes, we all have our own level of focused interest in our activities and unfortunately many feel their interest need to or should come first and above other priorities. There is a limited budget to maintain ALL the facilities here and the priorities have to be balanced among all of them. What extra we have to give to one will result in reductions or losses to one or many others. If you truly believe that there is a serious issue that needs to be addressed there are people listening and willing to act on them.

Just to be clear, the developer is out of the picture on the amenities operations throughout The Villages and for providing any additional amenities north of SR44, these responsibilities belong to the RAD (VCCDD/AAC) and SLAD (SLCDD/PWAC). Both have budgetary responsibilities and contributions to the Recreation Department to ensure a finite level of service is provided to the residents at large. The Recreation Department attempts to accommodate all the resident's needs but they are constrained by budgetary limitations and have to prioritize.

Again if you feel there is a serious or urgent need or shortfall in the facilities please bring them the to PWAC and AAC, they are the bodies that are your tools for changes. I will caution you that because they are responsible for all of the amenities, they may not ultimately share the same level of priority that you may have on your issue. That doesn't mean they didn't hear your concerns, that it isn't important, your input isn't valued, or that it won't be acted upon, it means that there were issues of high priority than what you wanted delivered or acted upon.

I cannot help after reading this thread but to reflect on current events, specifically the controversy over elimination of the deferral rate, and to find the irony in the NIMBY attitude of so many residents. The "don't raise my rate" or "don't make me live up to my contract" coming from one direction while the "I want more" and "this isn't good enough" comes from the other, many times it's the same people. In the years that I have been a district supervisor and a member of PWAC I cannot recall a single instance were a member of the public has stepped forward during the budgeting process to express their concerns or opinions. In these budget meetings and workshops every line item of the budget is gone over in detail and discussed, and yet no public input, for that matter I can't recall but 2 or 3 times in the last 5 years where a member of the general public even bothered to attend these meetings. I've seen such an outcry for transparency in the budget because of the deferral rate issue, it's there already, few have taken the effort to look.

Please take the time and effort to become involved in your local government, that's the only way it becomes better for everyone.

Do you know the difference between residential and commercial table? Residential tables are adequate for home use where play is hardly active. Commercial tables are made for heavy use everyday Day of the year.

Compared to golf complainers, billiards players are Boy Scouts. Pool halls are fine, they just could be whole lot better for the same money spent.

there going to raise the rate and there nothing we residents can do about it.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by blueash

I am more than a bit confused by the complaints expressed here. One on hand we are told by some of those who are unhappy that the tables being purchased are too low a quality and for about the same price we could have "better" tables.






Or the tables are fine but the ongoing maintenance is poor. The repair companies are not aligning the pockets and re-doing the rails correctly. This is either because they are incompetent or because they are under contract to not do the job they way the serious players believe it needs to be done.

And there are hundreds of players, including serious ones who have just taken up the game. And that the Villages has a " multi-million dollar investment in billiard rooms" So a multimillion dollars for hundreds of players. That is thousands per person including those serious one who just started playing.


So is the complaint that the Villages is cheap and/or that they spend thousands of dollars per person who plays billiards but does so unwisely? Are they buying the wrong tables, or the tables are fine but the repair and upkeep is poor? Maybe they have wised up and decided not to spend so much money when the serious players are so unhappy with the results. And that is why, as the original poster wrote, there has been no rush to install pool rooms below 44.

I don't know about other sports and games, but I do know a lot about pool rooms. My point is that, having 150 pool tables in 25 rooms requires an expert on equipment selection, management, and maintenance. And, yes, I am certain that, if you hired an expert to manage the pool rooms, the current budget for these rooms would not need to be increased because they are not spending the money wisely. And, this issue has already been addressed by organized billiard players with the people in charge, and those people just do not care. If someone tried to set up and operate a "for profit" billiard room without having any knowledge about the equipment, they would most likely be out of business within a year. It would be like someone opening a restaurant with no restaurant experience or food preparation skills.

[Bogie Shooter]

This thread just becomes more unbelievable...……..

[Goldwingnut]

Originally Posted by Topspinmo

Do you know the difference between residential and commercial table? Residential tables are adequate for home use where play is hardly active. Commercial tables are made for heavy use everyday Day of the year.

Compared to golf complainers, billiards players are Boy Scouts. Pool halls are fine, they just could be whole lot better for the same money spent.

there going to raise the rate and there nothing we residents can do about it.

I really have no idea the differences between a residential and a commercial table. My pool playing was limited to liberty ports during my time in the Navy and was more focused on the beer and girls that were there. I've never even been in any of the pool rooms at any of the Rec Centers I've been to in the last 5 years. My experience and interest in pool is of little relevance, what is of relevance and interest to me is that there are dissatisfied residents with the current conditions. As I've said, bring the concerns to the PWAC and AAC so they can attempt to address the issue, complaining here is a completely useless act.

With respect to the rates going up, unless the suppliers and contractors lower their rates and the employees will take a pay cut, the cost for running amenities will continue to go up and those costs will have to be covered. There is only so much behind the scenes austerity measures that can be applied before either rates have to go up or services decreased. On the plus side for the residents, the amenity rate can only go up by the CPI annually, regardless of what costs increase, this is also a down-side as the CPI has little relevance to the actual cost increases that are being seen, eventually something will have to give. Nobody is getting rich or their wallets lined on the amenity fee increase, the developer doesn't see a dime of the fees collected north of SR44, it all goes to the SLCDD and VCCDD for the SLAD and RAD funds.

[ColdNoMore]

I think this is a very interesting...and informative thread.


If I weren't interested in it, I would do this...

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore

I think this is a very interesting...and informative thread.


If I weren't interested in it, I would do this...

It has been suggested several times that the concerns need to go to boards. A few posters continue to restate the same thing over and over about their frustrations. As also stated several times posting on here will accomplish nothing.
That's what I find unbelievable.
Thanks for telling me what to do, however, I don't need your help.