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-   The Villages, Florida, General Discussion (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/)
-   -   Question Bicyclists and Stop Signs (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/question-bicyclists-stop-signs-337294/)

GizmoWhiskers 12-10-2022 07:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rustyp (Post 2164760)
What is the law regarding cyclists and stop signs ? Today at Watertower circle two very large groups entered the circle from Lester Drive which has a stop sign at full speed - no stop. I mean no stop. Both lead bikers did not hesitate and went into the circle full bore and the groups followed. It was like they were entering a roundabout except there is a stop sign. There was a car coming around the circle and both car and cyclists met at the intersection. It appeared the leader made the decision not to stop by staying to the extreme right. The road in the circle is about two lanes wide but not marked (striped) as such.
In case no one has posted:

FL State Statute
316.2065
6(b) When stopping at a stop sign, persons riding bicycles in groups, after coming to a full stop and obeying all traffic laws, may proceed through the stop sign in a group of 10 or fewer at a time. Motor vehicle operators must allow one such group to travel through the intersection before moving forward.

Statutes & Constitution
:View Statutes
:

Online Sunshine.

roscoguy 12-10-2022 07:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 2164921)
The only way they were going "at full speed" would be if they were riding e-bikes. That's the top of a fairly steep, very long hill.

The law is that they should each have stopped first.

The thing about stopping first in a large group though - is they were going uphill on a very long, fairly steep road. They would have had to EACH stop at the end of an incline. For the less athletic of the bunch - near the back of the line of bikes, that would sometimes mean WALKING their bike up the rest of the hill to the traffic circle. That means everyone in front of them would be sitting ON the traffic circle waiting for the rest of them to catch up.

This also would have resulted in any cars or golf carts behind them, being held up while they waited for everyone ahead of them to walk their bikes up the rest of the hill, and then regroup and start riding again in the traffic circle. There is no cart lane or sidewalk or MMP at that intersection for the bikes to travel on.

That is - dangerous. Yes, it's the law. But in this situation it's also dangerous.

So while you're correct that it's the law, it's also a really REALLY bad idea for a large group of bicycles to stop on Lester, St. Andrews Kiley, Magnolia, or Boone. One or two or even three together is one thing - there's little holdup, little risk. But two "large groups" - is dangerous.
I agree with almost all of your points here, but the law regarding cyclists changed last year. In 2021, the governor signed a bill which, among other things, made it legal for groups of 10 or fewer cyclists to proceed through an intersection as a group, after a complete stop. This, according to advocacyadvance.org. Florida Has a New Bike Safety Law: Here's What You Need to Know - Advocacy Advance
What he declined to do was allow cyclists to do a 'rolling stop' - which means that they could treat stop signs as yield signs, NOT as an automatic right of way.

rustyp 12-10-2022 07:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rustyp (Post 2164760)
What is the law regarding cyclists and stop signs ? Today at Watertower circle two very large groups entered the circle from Lester Drive which has a stop sign at full speed - no stop. I mean no stop. Both lead bikers did not hesitate and went into the circle full bore and the groups followed. It was like they were entering a roundabout except there is a stop sign. There was a car coming around the circle and both car and cyclists met at the intersection. It appeared the leader made the decision not to stop by staying to the extreme right. The road in the circle is about two lanes wide but not marked (striped) as such.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 2164921)
The only way they were going "at full speed" would be if they were riding e-bikes. That's the top of a fairly steep, very long hill.

The law is that they should each have stopped first.

The thing about stopping first in a large group though - is they were going uphill on a very long, fairly steep road. They would have had to EACH stop at the end of an incline. For the less athletic of the bunch - near the back of the line of bikes, that would sometimes mean WALKING their bike up the rest of the hill to the traffic circle. That means everyone in front of them would be sitting ON the traffic circle waiting for the rest of them to catch up.

This also would have resulted in any cars or golf carts behind them, being held up while they waited for everyone ahead of them to walk their bikes up the rest of the hill, and then regroup and start riding again in the traffic circle. There is no cart lane or sidewalk or MMP at that intersection for the bikes to travel on.

That is - dangerous. Yes, it's the law. But in this situation it's also dangerous.

So while you're correct that it's the law, it's also a really REALLY bad idea for a large group of bicycles to stop on Lester, St. Andrews Kiley, Magnolia, or Boone. One or two or even three together is one thing - there's little holdup, little risk. But two "large groups" - is dangerous.
Poor choice of words on my part. What I meant was the lead cyclist did not even hesitate at the stop sign. I would not know what full speed is. Is that not a function of each rider's ability ? It is fascinating to me the rush to defend the people that broke the law but no mention of the car driver being violated in the name of their safety. That corner is nearly a blind corner and those cyclists could have easily startled the car driver and result in who knows what ?

Chee-Chee 12-10-2022 08:16 AM
It’s not as simple as tapping your breaks in a car. Hit a cyclist and even if it completely not your fault, you’re in the middle of a law suit. Then good luck.

toeser 12-10-2022 08:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rustyp (Post 2164760)
What is the law regarding cyclists and stop signs ? Today at Watertower circle two very large groups entered the circle from Lester Drive which has a stop sign at full speed - no stop. I mean no stop. Both lead bikers did not hesitate and went into the circle full bore and the groups followed. It was like they were entering a roundabout except there is a stop sign. There was a car coming around the circle and both car and cyclists met at the intersection. It appeared the leader made the decision not to stop by staying to the extreme right. The road in the circle is about two lanes wide but not marked (striped) as such.

Smart states have laws that a stop sign is a yield sign for bikes. Florida is not one of those states. In any event, even if Florida had that law, the bikers were wrong because they did not yield.

Topgun 1776 12-10-2022 08:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tvflguy (Post 2164805)
Yes and they believe that the skintight spandex and cute helmets allow them to flaunt laws. One of these days road rage could very well occur. I have seen the same nonstop streaming with no stop at signs and a line of the Entitled streaming into and thru roundabouts. One of these days….
Remember...this is a public forum. Written threats that turn to actions...even years later... will be used against you.

We are all mostly retired here. What is anyone in so much of a hurry that you target any group...walkers, cyclists, golf carts etc?!?!?!? Seriously!!!

There's not a single mode of travel we Villagers use in TV that doesn't include others doing repetitive, dumb stuff...on a frequent basis.

Even when the other party is at fault, we are mandated to avoid the accident using any practical and prudent means necessary to do such.

Be careful with your threats...idle hands are the devil's workshop!!!

Bill14564 12-10-2022 08:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisinva (Post 2164983)
For those who didn't or couldn't read the PubMed report here's the conclusion " During the observation period, a total of 875 GC-related crashes occurred, representing an average of 136 crashes, 65 hospitalizations, and 9 dead or disabled annually. Of all crashes, 48% resulted in hospitalization, severe trauma, or death. Of these, ejection occurred in 27%, hospitalization in 55%, and death or disability in 15% of crashes. Virtually all death and disability occurred within the setting of GC used on streets or road pathways. Death and disability, particularly due to ejection during GC crashes, occur at an alarming rate when GCs are used for local transportation. We believe public awareness and the use of 3-point seatbelts in these vehicles would significantly reduce death and disability caused by these crashes."

Makes a lot of sense to me.
Do you use a 3-point seatbelt in your cart? Have you ever seen a 3-point seatbelt on a cart (I haven't)? Do you suppose the authors of the study have any data on the effectiveness of 3-point seatbelts on carts to back up that conclusion?

9 dead or disabled annually seems high to me. We have been here over two years now and though I read the bad-news paper regularly I can't remember hearing about 18 serious accidents in that time. Perhaps they don't make the paper or perhaps something changed since the report was written.

nhtexasrn 12-10-2022 09:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul1934 (Post 2164800)
Retired LEO, they are subject to all vehicle codes. Have issued summonses to biker violators in situations where they blew off stop signs and traffic lights. Most complain about how hard(inconvenient) it is to stop and restart.
Well, it actually is a pain. A most cyclers are usually clipped-in to the pedals and in a high gear when they get to a stop sign. They have to unclip, stop and then restart in a high gear which can be difficult especially on a hill. That being said, they are still required to obey all traffic laws just like any other vehicle, whether it's a pain or not, by planning ahead, gearing down, unclip early and stop. Now, let's get all the cars and golf carts to do the same and we will be in good shape.

GizmoWhiskers 12-10-2022 09:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tvflguy (Post 2164805)
Yes and they believe that the skintight spandex and cute helmets allow them to flaunt laws. One of these days road rage could very well occur. I have seen the same nonstop streaming with no stop at signs and a line of the Entitled streaming into and thru roundabouts. One of these days….
As I posted on this thread, FL statute allows groups of up to 10 to go through stop signs as one unit. A post such as this comes across as a veil threat of potential road rage against a cyclist. Keep in mind that most cyclists these days have mounted cameras on either their bikes or their "cute" helmets. The cameras do let karma play out. Cyclists misbehaiving will be recorded as well. Relative to road rage, seems one would want to protect their freedom and retirement "nest egg" over a temporary inconvenience.

nhtexasrn 12-10-2022 09:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneiric (Post 2164981)
Are there any bicyclists in this thread? I don't ride a bike but guess that the leader would say that stopping and starting a large group would be like an accordion in the midst of traffic. Although not following the laws, impractical and dangerous.
A group of cyclists uses hand signals to alert others what they are about to do. There is a signal for slow, stop, right turn, left turn, pothole, etc. I've ridden in organized rides where there are hundreds of cyclists and it works if everyone knows what they are doing. The problem is there those who don't and that can cause a problem.

Manders 12-10-2022 09:15 AM
When I’m on my bike, I complain about cars and their drivers, when I’m driving my car I complain about bikers. See I fit in with both groups.

Reading these posts reminds me why I should quit reading these posts. Bunch of old curmudgeons.

fdpaq0580 12-10-2022 09:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GizmoWhiskers (Post 2165039)
As I posted on this thread, FL statute allows groups of up to 10 to go through stop signs as one unit. A post such as this comes across as a veil threat of potential road rage against a cyclist. Keep in mind that most cyclists these days have mounted cameras on either their bikes or their "cute" helmets. The cameras do let karma play out. Cyclists misbehaiving will be recorded as well. Relative to road rage, seems one would want to protect their freedom and retirement "nest egg" over a temporary inconvenience.
If I understand the statute correctly, the cyclists can Not go through the stop sign. They must come to a complete stop before proceeding as a group. Blowing through the stop sign is not acceptable.
Also, I did not interpret tvflguy's post as a threat, but as simply a warning that, sooner or later, a really bad accident could happen.
Understand and obey the rules, and don't go looking for threats where there are none.

terryf484 12-10-2022 09:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rustyp (Post 2164760)
What is the law regarding cyclists and stop signs ? Today at Watertower circle two very large groups entered the circle from Lester Drive which has a stop sign at full speed - no stop. I mean no stop. Both lead bikers did not hesitate and went into the circle full bore and the groups followed. It was like they were entering a roundabout except there is a stop sign. There was a car coming around the circle and both car and cyclists met at the intersection. It appeared the leader made the decision not to stop by staying to the extreme right. The road in the circle is about two lanes wide but not marked (striped) as such.
How dare they!!! About the same as all the drivers that think the 35 mph speed limit is for everyone else!!

sowilts 12-10-2022 09:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneiric (Post 2164981)
Are there any bicyclists in this thread? I don't ride a bike but guess that the leader would say that stopping and starting a large group would be like an accordion in the midst of traffic. Although not following the laws, impractical and dangerous.
I’m a road bicyclist and have been for over 60 years. Yes I stop at more than posted stop signs. Learned at an early age I would lose to anything on the road that would make me have a bad day. Cars, Trucks, Trains, Dogs and especially Cats. They are very strong. I don’t ride in groups because all it takes is one bump and everyone may fall.

john352 12-10-2022 10:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElDiabloJoe (Post 2164794)
Dontcha know, cyclists are above petty traffic signs. Ya know what's fun, pull them over for running the stop sign and demand to see their driver's license. When they argue they don't have it because they are not driving, remind them they are operating a vehicle on city streets - requiring a driver's license. Then cite for same, and the stop sign violation (22450a).

Try to find the Lance Armstrong leader of the peloton, it is usually more effective.

Funny thing is, they don't find it nearly as amusing as I did.

Florida law states that bicycle riders have to obey all traffic laws like a car drivers. However, a driver's license is not required to drive a golf cart or a bicycle.,


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