Talk of The Villages Florida

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-   The Villages, Florida, General Discussion (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/)
-   -   Question Bicyclists and Stop Signs (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/question-bicyclists-stop-signs-337294/)

rustyp 12-11-2022 08:08 AM

[QUOTE=cyrillulu;2165272]I agree wholeheartedly. I hate it when people call cyclists entitled, I believe it’s the golf cart drivers that feel they are entitled. I am a cyclist myself and ride around 100 miles a week on the villages module paths.
I would estimate that out all the many golf carts I meet on my sessions that:
A) 20% come to a complete stop
B) 50% do a rolling stop
C) 30% ignore them completely, drive straight through without looking or slowing.
Also many of these carts are going at speeds way, way above the 20mph , they don’t give a crap about anyone but themselves.[/QUOTE

/// My apologies - I missed you gave credit to 20%.

Davonu 12-11-2022 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rustyp (Post 2165282)
20+50+30=100% Thus not one cart driver stops at a stop sign. Any wager ?

Assuming these are simply reasonable estimates and not intended to be precise, I would agree with the numbers.

tophcfa 12-11-2022 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by srswans (Post 2165086)
Exactly. It’s a matter of practical efficiency.

So ignoring stop signs is kind of like illegal immigration, breaking the law is simply a matter of practical efficiency? But it’s still breaking the law!

golfing eagles 12-11-2022 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerryLBell (Post 2164903)
Studies have shown that, despite common sense, having bicycles treat stop signs as yield signs actually decreases the chances of bicycles being involved in accidents at intersections. That is why nine states have created laws to allow this. However, I do not believe Florida to be among them.

Bicycling friends of mine do feel that it is safer to bike in a group (a group is more visible than a single biker). To keep the group together sometimes means rolling through stop signs or going across traffic circles in a line. I don't know if I entirely agree with them on that.

Some also believe it is safer to ride on the roads than it is on "multi-modal" or "safety" paths. They claim that cart drivers on the multi-modal paths in The Villages are more prone to hit bikes than do cars. I don't know about that. I guess I'd rather be hit by a 1,000-pound golf cart doing 20 mph than a 3,000-4,000 pound car doing 35 mph (or faster outside of The Bubble).

I don't think bicyclers are inherently entitle snobs any more than I think all car and golf cart drivers in The Villages are distracted, drunk or too old to safely have licenses. I bicycle some, drive my cart around and definitely use my car and try to be careful when doing any of those and to see the point of view of all of those groups.

To my knowledge, the only time a "group" is allowed to go through stop and yield signs to "stay together" is a funeral procession, which they might just get if they continue to blow through as a group in front of an oncoming vehicle.

golfing eagles 12-11-2022 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happydaz (Post 2164908)
Unfortunately in the Villages, it is the golf cart drivers who are getting the Darwin awards. They hit signs, the entrance to tunnels, or run into cars. I think we need to be more concerned about golf cart safety in The Villages than worrying about bicycles not stopping at stop signs. Many golf cart riders have been killed in the Villages in the last ten years. Why is no one concerned about this? I have seen golf cart drivers driving very fast. Many carts have been altered to exceed 20 mph. Many golf cart drivers are very reckless. Something needs to be done about the number of deaths in golf carts.

Apples and oranges. Yes, there are some terrible golf cart drivers out there, but that is totally different from INTENTIONALLY VIOLATING THE LAW ON A BICYCLE because it is "inconvenient" to stop or they want to stay together as a group.

golfing eagles 12-11-2022 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happydaz (Post 2164922)
Often people worry about "perceived threats" more than real threats. They worry about bicylists going through a stop sign and post on a forum and then they jump into a golf cart. Some have no seat belts and all have no helmets and yet head injuries and deaths occur every year. So which is the real threat?

Analysis of death and disability due to golf cart crashes in The Villages, Florida: 2011-2019 - PubMed

Sorry, it's still the cyclists intentionally violating the law

golfing eagles 12-11-2022 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GizmoWhiskers (Post 2164991)
In case no one has posted:

FL State Statute
316.2065
6(b) When stopping at a stop sign, persons riding bicycles in groups, after coming to a full stop and obeying all traffic laws, may proceed through the stop sign in a group of 10 or fewer at a time. Motor vehicle operators must allow one such group to travel through the intersection before moving forward.

Statutes & Constitution
:View Statutes
:

Online Sunshine
.

The operative phrase----FULL STOP. Last time I saw that happen was when Ramses II got stuck at the Red Sea :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

fdpaq0580 12-11-2022 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2165411)
The operative phrase----FULL STOP. Last time I saw that happen was when Ramses II got stuck at the Red Sea :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

WOW!!! You actually saw that? No wonder you are so wise, having lived so long. You must know lots of stuff!
😯

golfing eagles 12-11-2022 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happydaz (Post 2165197)
That is also why there are also so many DOA auto deaths per year as well as DOA golf cart deaths. Another startling statistic is the number of pedestrians that die each year by being hit by motor vehicles. Then again the largest cause of death each year in the US is heart disease. Heart disease is often due to lifestyle choices such as over eating and lack of exercise. Heart disease kills more people than anything else, but no one here talks about this because they like to overeat, drink, and not exercise. If people were really concerned about people being DOA they would pay attention to the most frequent causes of death, but no, they complain about all the little stuff, not the elephant in the room. I guess that’s human nature

Sounds like a great public service announcement

golfing eagles 12-11-2022 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyrillulu (Post 2165272)
I agree wholeheartedly. I hate it when people call cyclists entitled, I believe it’s the golf cart drivers that feel they are entitled. I am a cyclist myself and ride around 100 miles a week on the villages module paths.
I would estimate that out all the many golf carts I meet on my sessions that:
A) 20% come to a complete stop
B) 50% do a rolling stop
C) 30% ignore them completely, drive straight through without looking or slowing.
Also many of these carts are going at speeds way, way above the 20mph , they don’t give a crap about anyone but themselves.

Interesting post. A cyclist who feels golf cart drivers are entitled. How surprising :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl: As far as the percentages of cyclists for the same scenarios:
0% come to a full stop
2% do a rolling stop, and
98% blow right through.

BTW, I do favor the 10 go through in a group AFTER stopping new law, and believe it or not I support cyclists treating a stop sign as a yield---assuming no one is coming and they are prepared to yield if necessary. My objection here is ONLY to those that blow right through a RB in front of me so that I have to jam on my brakes to protect THEM from their idiotic move. A good rule of thumb, regardless of the vehicles involved, is that anytime I have to brake unexpectedly because of the action of another (backing out driveway, running through stop sign to turn in front and then crawling, turning on red when traffic is coming, etc.), that person is in the WRONG and has violated traffic laws to one extent or another.

golfing eagles 12-11-2022 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fdpaq0580 (Post 2165414)
WOW!!! You actually saw that? No wonder you are so wise, having lived so long. You must know lots of stuff!
😯

You KNOW I do!!!:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Wilharm 12-12-2022 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JP (Post 2164792)
It seems like quite a few of the bikers want you, the general public, to obey all the laws enacted for the bikers but the bikers get to pick and choose when they obey the laws. They act elite and entitled.

The city of Clear Lake, Iowa will ticket bikers that ignore stop signs and stop lights.

Happydaz 12-12-2022 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilharm (Post 2165596)
The city of Clear Lake, Iowa will ticket bikers that ignore stop signs and stop lights.

The states of Delaware, Idaho, and Colorado would not issue tickets as they have passed laws to allow bicyclists to roll through stop signs. The reason these states cite is that most accidents between bicyclists and vehicles occur at intersections. The reason many cyclists roll through is that they instinctively know that the quicker they can get through an intersection the safer they will be. Stopping and then restarting is slow and dangerous as cars can come upon a bicyclist very quickly and if a biker is going only going 5 mph he will be very vulnerable. It is very understandable for auto drivers to see rolling stops as a dangerous maneuver. It certainly looks that way when 10 bikers are seen shooting through an intersection all at once, but they are doing this for their own safety. The faster they can get through the better. Some reports have shown that rolling stops result in less bike accidents and that is why some states allow it. As a bicyclist and motorcyclist, I am acutely aware that intersections are the most dangerous part of my rides and I make sure to move through them as quickly and safely as I can. (I always come to a complete stop on my motorcycle, but I can accelerate rapidly to move through the dangerous intersections.) Still I can see how that looks to the auto driver. I agree that there are instances where bicyclists make poor decisions and do not yield to an approaching car, but that is something we all try to avoid as it endangers our lives. You are being concerned drivers posting here as you know you don’t want to hit anyone. We bicyclists appreciate that and we are trying to do our best to safely move through the streets and intersections. Maybe if you could understand a little about our situation we could also be more considerate of auto drivers as well. We are after all living in this wonderful place called The Villages.

golfing eagles 12-12-2022 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happydaz (Post 2165627)
The states of Delaware, Idaho, and Colorado would not issue tickets as they have passed laws to allow bicyclists to roll through stop signs. The reason these states cite is that most accidents between bicyclists and vehicles occur at intersections. The reason many cyclists roll through is that they instinctively know that the quicker they can get through an intersection the safer they will be. Stopping and then restarting is slow and dangerous as cars can come upon a bicyclist very quickly and if a biker is going only going 5 mph he will be very vulnerable. It is very understandable for auto drivers to see rolling stops as a dangerous maneuver. It certainly looks that way when 10 bikers are seen shooting through an intersection all at once, but they are doing this for their own safety. The faster they can get through the better. Some reports have shown that rolling stops result in less bike accidents and that is why some states allow it. As a bicyclist and motorcyclist, I am acutely aware that intersections are the most dangerous part of my rides and I make sure to move through them as quickly and safely as I can. (I always come to a complete stop on my motorcycle, but I can accelerate rapidly to move through the dangerous intersections.) Still I can see how that looks to the auto driver. I agree that there are instances where bicyclists make poor decisions and do not yield to an approaching car, but that is something we all try to avoid as it endangers our lives. You are being concerned drivers posting here as you know you don’t want to hit anyone. We bicyclists appreciate that and we are trying to do our best to safely move through the streets and intersections. Maybe if you could understand a little about our situation we could also be more considerate of auto drivers as well. We are after all living in this wonderful place called The Villages.

Let's assume that is correct, and let's assume they are doing it for safety and not convenience. (the second assumption is bigger than the first). Even so, THEY DON'T GET TO INVENT THEIR OWN LAWS IN CONTRADICTION TO THE EXISTING TRAFFIC CODE, at least not in Florida.

BTW, if I shoot through an intersection at 70, I probably will spend less time in it and be "safer":1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

OrangeBlossomBaby 12-12-2022 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2165421)
Interesting post. A cyclist who feels golf cart drivers are entitled. How surprising :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl: As far as the percentages of cyclists for the same scenarios:
0% come to a full stop
2% do a rolling stop, and
98% blow right through.

BTW, I do favor the 10 go through in a group AFTER stopping new law, and believe it or not I support cyclists treating a stop sign as a yield---assuming no one is coming and they are prepared to yield if necessary. My objection here is ONLY to those that blow right through a RB in front of me so that I have to jam on my brakes to protect THEM from their idiotic move. A good rule of thumb, regardless of the vehicles involved, is that anytime I have to brake unexpectedly because of the action of another (backing out driveway, running through stop sign to turn in front and then crawling, turning on red when traffic is coming, etc.), that person is in the WRONG and has violated traffic laws to one extent or another.

Here's my personal experience as a bike-rider:

If I'm trying to go uphill, and there's no traffic on the cross street, I'll go as fast as I possibly can right through that intersection.

If I'm going downhill, I'll either stop completely, or roll through. It's around 50-50 - depends on how much I'm enjoying the ability to coast down hill that moment.

If I'm on even pavement I'll usually come to a complete stop - I'd say around 80% of the time.

If there's traffic on the cross road, OR someone coming from the other side with their turn signal on to take a left, I come to a complete stop - 100% of the time. If someone tries to give me the right of way I will get off my bicycle, and not get back on until they've passed.
This is especially true if there are people behind the guy trying to give away his right of way, or someone on the other side of the intersection wanting to take a left, while other people are moving in from my left or right.

Lastly - if I'm currently going downhill, but immediately after the stop sign is an uphill segment of road, I will come to a stop ONLY if there are cars approaching from my right or left. Otherwise I will speed through as fast as I can to make sure I have enough momentum to make it up that hill without having to get off the bike and walk.

I violate the law. I admit it. I'm also not a hypocrite who thinks badly of people who follow the same protocol in their cars or golf carts. If there's no traffic in any direction then it shouldn't matter if you, the only person at that intersection, or even near that intersection, chooses to cross that intersection.

I personally think all right turns should be yields, not stops. But - it isn't, I acknowledge that it isn't, I'm willing to take my chances.


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