[outlaw]

Originally Posted by Philip Drugge

I lived in New England most of my life. We NEVER had this much trouble with roundabouts or rotaries. In almost all instances traffic is limited to ONE lane going into the rotary. If there are two lanes (think El Camino Real at Savannah center) paint lines that channel all cars to one lane. Then, in the rotary, have one lane painted or none at all. Rotary traffic has the right of way. Cars entering merge into that traffic and exit wherever they wish from one lane going around. Cars exiting should signal to let the person behind them know they are turning off.

After witnessing an accident in a rotary where a vehicle in the inside lane, closest to the center, struck a car on his right while trying to exit, I went and spoke to Pete Wahl, the big guy at one time. I told him of this solution and he said there is so much traffic in TV that it wouldn't work. This was when there were a lot less folks here. At that point I said, you've never been to Boston and left. Right now I am on Cape Cod and the are many of these rotaries in the area. They are all one lane in, one lane around, and one or two on exiting

I know of no reason, save stubbornness or stupidity for not trying this simple plan. Of course, there would be less demand for tow trucks and ambulances if it works!!

I agree. I have also used single lane RBs with two lanes going into the single lane RBs. Traffic moved smoothly, but you won't convince anyone in TV. They think it's too busy here, LOL.

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Every one reading tis report ONLY if you have witnessed a collision in the circles. I have not. Time here eight years.

In the past three years, I have seen my quota and yours too! My guess is that since you don't have to go through a roundabout to get out of your neighborhood, you have seen fewer accidents than the average person.

[njbchbum]

Aaahh, Philip. I also grew up with and still navigate traffic circles here in NJ. And our circles are designed just like the ones in The Villages having two lanes AND the striping of the solid 'do not cross' line and the 'okay to cross line'. The Villages roundabout dilemma is not with folks like us who have navigated them for years - but is with folks who have NOT grown up navigating them or even seeing them. As mentioned they are still in the learning curve period. The bigger problem is with the roundabout user who is simply disregarding the solid vs broken traffic indicator line within the roundabout; as well as simply ignoring the 'rules' of navigating a roundabout!

Perhaps it is 'stubborness or stupidity' of individual drivers that complicates roundabout navigation rather than traffic design. In several instances near my NJ home, traffic circles that were thought to be dangerous were reconstructed to '+' intersections. Traffic became soooo very unberable that circles [3 to 4 traffic signal changes before proceding thru the intersection] were created around them with special turn lanes and delayed turn arrows. End result - more accidents from the folks who run the red turn light or are too slow to get out of the intersection turn lane before the yellow turns to red! The ONLY good thing about those areas - the projects kept a lot of people employed for a looong time!

Now close your eyes and imagine a one lane roundabout just over the LSL bridge and the traffic build-up at any given time, but especially when a favorite entertainer is at that square or a special event is taking place there. Where is the traffic [that was already built-up in the turn lane on 466 that is now stopped again because of 2 lane traffic waiting to merge into 1 lane for exiting to the square or continuing on up the] to go? And with the advent of housing expansion in District 4, the Buena Vista/El Camino roundabout will see an increase in daily traffic as wellas after Savannah Center events in that area too.

"Traffic" in the roundabouts on the Cape is really a seasonal thing. And I do recall when as a child on vacation in the City of Boston, navigating a roundabout in the area of a bridge over the Charles River, had my Mother going round that circle again and again in an attempt to exit to get to that bridge until we were all dizzy!

[dbussone]

Originally Posted by Philip Drugge

I lived in New England most of my life. We NEVER had this much trouble with roundabouts or rotaries. In almost all instances traffic is limited to ONE lane going into the rotary. If there are two lanes (think El Camino Real at Savannah center) paint lines that channel all cars to one lane. Then, in the rotary, have one lane painted or none at all. Rotary traffic has the right of way. Cars entering merge into that traffic and exit wherever they wish from one lane going around. Cars exiting should signal to let the person behind them know they are turning off.



After witnessing an accident in a rotary where a vehicle in the inside lane, closest to the center, struck a car on his right while trying to exit, I went and spoke to Pete Wahl, the big guy at one time. I told him of this solution and he said there is so much traffic in TV that it wouldn't work. This was when there were a lot less folks here. At that point I said, you've never been to Boston and left. Right now I am on Cape Cod and the are many of these rotaries in the area. They are all one lane in, one lane around, and one or two on exiting



I know of no reason, save stubbornness or stupidity for not trying this simple plan. Of course, there would be less demand for tow trucks and ambulances if it works!!

I lived in New England as well, but on the North Shore. Most of the rotaries in our part of MA had multiple lanes. I can recall several that were 3-4 lanes all around the center. I drove numerous times to the Cape. IMHO multiple lane rotaries work better, especially when traffic is entering from and exiting to 3-4 directions.

[dbussone]

Originally Posted by njbchbum

Aaahh, Philip. I also grew up with and still navigate traffic circles here in NJ. And our circles are designed just like the ones in The Villages having two lanes AND the striping of the solid 'do not cross' line and the 'okay to cross line'. The Villages roundabout dilemma is not with folks like us who have navigated them for years - but is with folks who have NOT grown up navigating them or even seeing them. As mentioned they are still in the learning curve period. The bigger problem is with the roundabout user who is simply disregarding the solid vs broken traffic indicator line within the roundabout; as well as simply ignoring the 'rules' of navigating a roundabout!

Perhaps it is 'stubborness or stupidity' of individual drivers that complicates roundabout navigation rather than traffic design. In several instances near my NJ home, traffic circles that were thought to be dangerous were reconstructed to '+' intersections. Traffic became soooo very unberable that circles [3 to 4 traffic signal changes before proceding thru the intersection] were created around them with special turn lanes and delayed turn arrows. End result - more accidents from the folks who run the red turn light or are too slow to get out of the intersection turn lane before the yellow turns to red! The ONLY good thing about those areas - the projects kept a lot of people employed for a looong time!

Now close your eyes and imagine a one lane roundabout just over the LSL bridge and the traffic build-up at any given time, but especially when a favorite entertainer is at that square or a special event is taking place there. Where is the traffic [that was already built-up in the turn lane on 466 that is now stopped again because of 2 lane traffic waiting to merge into 1 lane for exiting to the square or continuing on up the] to go? And with the advent of housing expansion in District 4, the Buena Vista/El Camino roundabout will see an increase in daily traffic as wellas after Savannah Center events in that area too.

"Traffic" in the roundabouts on the Cape is really a seasonal thing. And I do recall when as a child on vacation in the City of Boston, navigating a roundabout in the area of a bridge over the Charles River, had my Mother going round that circle again and again in an attempt to exit to get to that bridge until we were all dizzy!

The points you've made are quite valid. And the Cape is very seasonal.

[Mikeod]

Have I seen accidents at the roundabout near my village? Sure. But every single one of them was due to people not operating as they are designed. It's really not so hard. Get into the proper lane for your desired exit, yield to all traffic in either lane already in the roundabout and exit where you should. And those accidents I've seen were minor and certainly much less severe than those that have occurred at 466 & Morse, 466 and Buena Vista, 466A and Morse, or 466A and Buena Vista.

I am always amazed at the RAB at Morse and Stillwater. I would estimate more than 50% of the eastbound traffic on Stillwater that intends to go north on Morse goes around in the outside lane. WRONG!!!! It's not a design error, it's a people error. Either they cannot read signs, or they don't care. My only complaint is that the signs should be placed somewhat farther back from the RAB to give more time to switch lanes if necessary.

The RABs are never going to be changed to a single lane. Two lanes were mandated by the counties involved to accommodate the traffic flow as the community grew.

[outlaw]

Originally Posted by Mikeod

Have I seen accidents at the roundabout near my village? Sure. But every single one of them was due to people not operating as they are designed. It's really not so hard. Get into the proper lane for your desired exit, yield to all traffic in either lane already in the roundabout and exit where you should. And those accidents I've seen were minor and certainly much less severe than those that have occurred at 466 & Morse, 466 and Buena Vista, 466A and Morse, or 466A and Buena Vista.

I am always amazed at the RAB at Morse and Stillwater. I would estimate more than 50% of the eastbound traffic on Stillwater that intends to go north on Morse goes around in the outside lane. WRONG!!!! It's not a design error, it's a people error. Either they cannot read signs, or they don't care. My only complaint is that the signs should be placed somewhat farther back from the RAB to give more time to switch lanes if necessary.

The RABs are never going to be changed to a single lane. Two lanes were mandated by the counties involved to accommodate the traffic flow as the community grew.

I really don't see what it matters from which lane you exit. Depending on where you enter the RB, you can exit from either lane. So why have the rules? One just needs to be prepared to yield to anyone everywhere.

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Every one reading tis report ONLY if you have witnessed a collision in the circles. I have not. Time here eight years.

I haven't witnessed any accidents but I've had a few friends that have been involved in accidents.
Mostly T-bones when someone exits from the inside lane.
Also Fireboy saw a woman driver going the WRONG way in a roundabout! She was very annoyed and shook her fist at him!

[Mikeod]

Originally Posted by outlaw

I really don't see what it matters from which lane you exit. Depending on where you enter the RB, you can exit from either lane. So why have the rules? One just needs to be prepared to yield to anyone everywhere.

The only vehicle you should need to be concerned about is one that enters the roundabout alongside you. If you entered after yielding to all traffic already in the roundabout to your left, and people also yielded to you before entering the RAB, (which are the rules), the car that entered along with you should exit on the first exit (right turn) or the second exit (straight ahead) if they entered in the right lane. That means you were in the left lane and have two options, straight ahead or third exit (left turn). In either case, there would be no conflict since you both followed the rules.

Since there is a group that doesn't care or understand how roundabouts work, or think they know how from prior locations and don't bother to learn how these work, I completely agree with your statement that you have to be prepared to yield to those people.