[Bill-n-Brillo]

Here's the dilemma we're trying to resolve in our minds: Buy a home (new or resale) in TV or rent. This is initially anticipated to be for staying in TV for a 3-4 month timeframe during the winter months. It's also not something we're going to be doing right away - we're trying to think/plan ahead, maybe a couple of years out.

Given that we'd only be staying at TV for the winters - with perhaps a scattered stay or two throughout the year here and there - we can't seem to make (pure) financial sense out of buying a place. If we were anticipating selling out here at home and moving to TV full-time in the not-too-distant future, that would certainly put a different slant on things. But we just built the home we're presently in here around two years ago and just love it. And central OH ain't too bad a place to spend the non-winter months (at least to us!).

The rationale: We can rent a modest house in TV for three months for about what the annual overhead (sans any mortgage cost/expense) would be to own a similar place there.

Assumptions:
a. I'm discounting any appreciation in the value of an owned home, at least looking out on, say, a 5-year time horizon - simply based on the state of the current home ownership marketplace (though we do realize the housing market in TV is certainly different than virtually any other place nowadays).
b. Granted, to us there is perceived value in owning a place versus renting (nice to have a place you can call your own!) but we're trying to focus on just the financial aspect of things at present.
c. We're also the types that would lose sleep owning and maintaining a home "long distance". Been there done that while trying to sell our old place after we'd moved in to the new house - and the old place was a 5 minute drive away!
d. We also wouldn't have any real interest in renting the owned place in TV during the off-winter months when we weren't around.

Again, if we were to decide at some future point to bail out of OH and move to TV permanently, then the focus changes completely. But for the forseeable future, we don't see that happening.

So I'm looking for other's insights as perhaps we've missed something(s) in our thought processes. Any feedback/thoughts/questions/comments/help appreciated! Sorry to drone on - figured it was best to try to paint as complete a picture as possible.

Thanks -
Bill

[kentucky blue]

Originally Posted by Bill-n-Brillo

The rationale: We can rent a modest house in TV for three months for about what the annual overhead (sans any mortgage cost/expense) would be to own a similar place there.
c. We're also the types that would lose sleep owning and maintaining a home "long distance". Been there done that while trying to sell our old place after we'd moved in to the new house - and the old place was a 5 minute drive away!


Thanks -
Bill

You need to rent ,soooooooooooooooooooooo you can sleep at night, plus it gives you time to find exactly what you want.Even though, i just purchased a home in TV,after looking for only 4 months, i would recommend most people rent first. That's the wise and prudent decision to make ,especially in the current real estate market.In my case, Sharon found THE house she had to have,and since i've lived on the edge most of my life,and have never been known as either wise or prudent.Plus, who can turn down the heartfelt wishes of a lovely woman, certainly not me, that gun she had pointed at the back of my head had NO influence on my decision!!!!!!!Good luck.

[redwitch]

You do have to factor in the cost of high season rentals (frequently over $3,000 a month) vs. owning. Right now, the housing market is lower even in TV, so you can get a little more house than you might be able to get in 5 years. Also, I'm not sure there would be any new homes in 5 years -- the build out may be complete by then (not sure of the developer's timing, sorry). So, if new is important, that's another factor.

While it is an additional expense, hiring a good home watcher makes a huge difference in your piece of mind and there are several in TV (a couple of not-so-good, but many are good to excellent).

You really have to decide what is right for you. There is a distinct advantage to being able to come down whenever you want with no worries about having a place to stay, the place being in good condition, etc. I do believe this is a great time to buy but I also understand the maintenance on two homes, especially for a long period can be overwhelming.

Try renting for at least one season and then see how you feel. Renting may give you the push you need to go either way. Either way, I don't think that, ultimately, you'll regret your decision.

[JimJoe]

Excellent post. I am in the same situation. Here are few more thoughts.
1. You may be surprised how often during the summer you end up "visiting" your winter home, especially if you make close friends in TV.
2. Home prices will continue to drop for a year or so BUT they will go back up, and if you believe inflation is the only way the national debt can be handled, the increases could be huge.
3. There are no income taxes in Florida. If you live in TV more than half the year, you could make Ohio your summer home and be State tax free.
4. You cannot personalize a rental home. You cant have permanent things stored there. It wont be like home, it will be a rental home.
5. You never know what is going to happen to rental costs.
6. Would you rather invest money into a safe haven like gold or real estate. (Real estate has ongoing costs but you get to enjoy it. Gold has purchasing and sale costs and I do not get a thrill out of looking at gold shares or even a gold bar.)
7. You can always sell the home in TV if it does not work out. You MAY lose some of your investment by declining costs or sales costs, but yhou still had the enjoyment and will KNOW what was the best decision.

Now some negatives.
1. When you buy in TV, your winter home is always in the same place. If you rent, you can change to various locations each year or even during the same winter.
2. Do not forget that you not only have to have your TV home watched while you are gone, but you have to have your Ohio home watched while you are in TV.
3. There are more expenses in maintaining two homes than you have thought of.
4. The IRS issue (which is not a deal breaker for me but is a concern) MIGHT be decided, but it seems it might go on for years. Do you want to wait years?
5. There are complications with two homes, not just expenses... mail, doctors, weddings and funerals, voting. etc.
6. Are there things about Ohio you cannot live without, grandkids. friends, recreations, church activities, hometown feelings or connections.

Close your eyes and visualize yourself in your home in TV and thinking about your home in Ohio, and vice versa. How financially difficult will it be?

My bottom line has been very well stated by others here. It is a HUGE decision for me. Can you sleep at night owning two homes?

[rjm1cc]

I would rent until I was ready to move full time.

A great benefit to renting is that you could pick different Villages and types of home to get a feel for each. You could even move each month if you wanted to. I think the ability to learn about TV first hand before you buy is the key. Also, you do not know what may happen in your life to make that final move to TV unrealiztic and then you would have to sell the house.

I do not think the decision is a financial one for you, but rather a lifestyle decision. Forget the dollars when making up your mind.

[mokey]

I would rent, no question. You will get many opinions, but with no plans to move here in the future, this is what I would do.

[Pturner]

Bill-n-Brillo,

With the situation you described, and especially your concern about sleeping at night, I think I would rent.

We purchased a home in TV and are not full-time yet, but our situation is different from yours. We come down as often as we can for a few days to a week-- generally once a month except Jan.-March. We rent our house out during the Jan.-March snowbird (high rent) season. We don't need to "snowbird" as we live in Atlanta. We love having a place of our own there! We love bringing friends or relatives to visit.

However, if we were coming down for a few months stay at a time, and generally only once a year, we probably would have rented.

You can always decide to buy later.

[bkcunningham1]

I'd llike to know how Gracie knew what the post was about before it was posted last night. I'm impressed Gracie. Very impressed.

[buffy]

I have lurked a long time here, just learning. Been to TV once and loved it. This thread brings me out of the shadows because we have been wondering the same thing. You all bring out good, no, great! points.

But I am still wondering about how snowbirds fit in for 3 months at a time. When we come, we will be anxious to immerse ourselves in the community---get to know the neighbors, socialize, join clubs, etc. Is it realistic to do those things as a renter without feeling like an outsider?

[ijusluvit]

Originally Posted by JimJoe

Excellent post. I am in the same situation. Here are few more thoughts.
1. You may be surprised how often during the summer you end up "visiting" your winter home, especially if you make close friends in TV.
2. Home prices will continue to drop for a year or so BUT they will go back up, and if you believe inflation is the only way the national debt can be handled, the increases could be huge.
3. There are no income taxes in Florida. If you live in TV more than half the year, you could make Ohio your summer home and be State tax free.
4. You cannot personalize a rental home. You cant have permanent things stored there. It wont be like home, it will be a rental home.
5. You never know what is going to happen to rental costs.
6. Would you rather invest money into a safe haven like gold or real estate. (Real estate has ongoing costs but you get to enjoy it. Gold has purchasing and sale costs and I do not get a thrill out of looking at gold shares or even a gold bar.)
7. You can always sell the home in TV if it does not work out. You MAY lose some of your investment by declining costs or sales costs, but yhou still had the enjoyment and will KNOW what was the best decision.

Now some negatives.
1. When you buy in TV, your winter home is always in the same place. If you rent, you can change to various locations each year or even during the same winter.
2. Do not forget that you not only have to have your TV home watched while you are gone, but you have to have your Ohio home watched while you are in TV.
3. There are more expenses in maintaining two homes than you have thought of.
4. The IRS issue (which is not a deal breaker for me but is a concern) MIGHT be decided, but it seems it might go on for years. Do you want to wait years?
5. There are complications with two homes, not just expenses... mail, doctors, weddings and funerals, voting. etc.
6. Are there things about Ohio you cannot live without, grandkids. friends, recreations, church activities, hometown feelings or connections.

Close your eyes and visualize yourself in your home in TV and thinking about your home in Ohio, and vice versa. How financially difficult will it be?

My bottom line has been very well stated by others here. It is a HUGE decision for me. Can you sleep at night owning two homes?

Wow, this is a terrific collection of ideas!! Especially some things folks don't always think about. VISUALIZING life here/there is so important.

Here's a couple of extra thoughts:

Of course dollars are important, but after all is said and done, if you can afford to own two houses then my thought is: DO IT!
But not this year. Rent this winter, more than one place would be better, because you can get the different flavor of what houses, neighborhoods and people are like and what you really prefer. Living here and at this time in your life IS DIFFERENT! You must experience it. If you wonder what a courtyard villa would be like, maybe one on a golf course, with a pool/spa, rent one for a month. (mine is available, but only in January). If you want to experience different areas, rent in the gorgeous, established northern villages. If you want to experience the excitement of brand new, go south. I'll bet my socks you will answer most if not all of your questions over a three month experience.

Your rationale about rent and ownership costs (without a mortgage) being about equal is correct. But I really believe that house prices in TV are going to accelerate from 2011 on. It's speculative that the housing segment of the economy will improve generally, but there's no denying the enormous number of boomers thinking the same thoughts you are. Word of mouth and the Developer's effective advertising have made TV far more widely known as a place with a very desirable lifestyle image (funny how the truth seems to get out).

Ordinarily I would say that if you are nervous about what's going on in the 'other' house, forget buying and keep resting easy. But we were in your shoes, bought here in 2004, and decided to go completely nuts. That is, we decorated our place exactly as we wanted it. Then we hired a terrific management company to take care of it AND rent it. It has been a perfect arrangement. The rental income has allowed us to do lots more than we thought we could afford. The guests have been fabulous. Nothing has ever been broken or disturbed. It's actually comforting to know that the house is lived in and cared for. Our management company folks are total 'detail nazis'. We wonder if we would notice as much as they do.

If you just can't handle someone in your house, there are excellent home watch services here. You got a post above from Redwitch, who said the same thing, but was too modest to say that she is famous for her home watch services. The good ones look at EVERYTHING while you're gone. I think the next thing they are going to do is contact clients monthly by computer and take you on a video tour to assure you that everything is just fine.

Because of our parent care obligations up north, we are only here for a month or two a year, in the winter. But we have snuck down (from upstate NY) other times for brief periods. The periods available for rent keep shrinking. We feel so fortunate to have our place in TV. Every time we go it is a wonderful reunion with our neighbors. We feel like kids at Christmas when we go through the gates to our village.

Send a private message if you have any specific questions. Good luck. You're on the right track!

[Pturner]

Originally Posted by buffy

I have lurked a long time here, just learning. Been to TV once and loved it. This thread brings me out of the shadows because we have been wondering the same thing. You all bring out good, no, great! points.

But I am still wondering about how snowbirds fit in for 3 months at a time. When we come, we will be anxious to immerse ourselves in the community---get to know the neighbors, socialize, join clubs, etc. Is it realistic to do those things as a renter without feeling like an outsider?

Hi Buffy,
Welcome to TOTV! Some three-month visitors have posted before that it was hard, some have said they had no problems socializing and getting to know neighbors.

My guess is that whenever you are the outsider, you have to be more the one making the effort. If you are outgoing and friendly, start conversations, invite folks over for drinks or out to dinner, I bet you find that you can find things in common and make friends here. The weekly activity newspaper will list the activities, clubs and contacts. For clubs, I would call the club leader in advance and ask if they welcome guests. Most probably do. Introduce yourself to the club leader and others when you go. I bet you'll make friends!

Go to the 3rd Friday lunches at Krispers. It's a great place to meet newcomers and veterans.

I would also suggest that you stay connected here on TOTV, not just as a lurker, but as a contributor to the conversations. If you've lurked long enough you already know that you can meet many helpful, welcoming and friendly TVers right here on this board.

Come on down to TV and jump right in. You'll love it.

Best regards,
Pturner

[JimJoe]

Originally Posted by ijusluvit

Wow, this is a terrific collection of ideas!! Especially some things folks don't always think about. VISUALIZING life here/there is so important.

Here's a couple of extra thoughts:

Of course dollars are important, but after all is said and done, if you can afford to own two houses then my thought is: DO IT!
But not this year. Rent this winter, more than one place would be better, because you can get the different flavor of what houses, neighborhoods and people are like and what you really prefer. Living here and at this time in your life IS DIFFERENT! You must experience it. If you wonder what a courtyard villa would be like, maybe one on a golf course, with a pool/spa, rent one for a month. (mine is available, but only in January). If you want to experience different areas, rent in the gorgeous, established northern villages. If you want to experience the excitement of brand new, go south. I'll bet my socks you will answer most if not all of your questions over a three month experience.

Your rationale about rent and ownership costs (without a mortgage) being about equal is correct. But I really believe that house prices in TV are going to accelerate from 2011 on. It's speculative that the housing segment of the economy will improve generally, but there's no denying the enormous number of boomers thinking the same thoughts you are. Word of mouth and the Developer's effective advertising have made TV far more widely known as a place with a very desirable lifestyle image (funny how the truth seems to get out).

Ordinarily I would say that if you are nervous about what's going on in the 'other' house, forget buying and keep resting easy. But we were in your shoes, bought here in 2004, and decided to go completely nuts. That is, we decorated our place exactly as we wanted it. Then we hired a terrific management company to take care of it AND rent it. It has been a perfect arrangement. The rental income has allowed us to do lots more than we thought we could afford. The guests have been fabulous. Nothing has ever been broken or disturbed. It's actually comforting to know that the house is lived in and cared for. Our management company folks are total 'detail nazis'. We wonder if we would notice as much as they do.

If you just can't handle someone in your house, there are excellent home watch services here. You got a post above from Redwitch, who said the same thing, but was too modest to say that she is famous for her home watch services. The good ones look at EVERYTHING while you're gone. I think the next thing they are going to do is contact clients monthly by computer and take you on a video tour to assure you that everything is just fine.

Because of our parent care obligations up north, we are only here for a month or two a year, in the winter. But we have snuck down (from upstate NY) other times for brief periods. The periods available for rent keep shrinking. We feel so fortunate to have our place in TV. Every time we go it is a wonderful reunion with our neighbors. We feel like kids at Christmas when we go through the gates to our village.

Send a private message if you have any specific questions. Good luck. You're on the right track!

Thank you for your ideas.. they are very helpful. Here is my question.
I have stayed with relatives several times in both a CYV and an Amarillo ranch. One is north and one is south. I was not there long enough to make friends with neighbors but I did meet them. Do you think it is necessary to live in a home in TV for more than a week at a time to get a feel for what area of TV and what kind of home you would prefer, and most importantly, not change and look for a new home shortly after buying in TV. I think the CYO is the way to go for snowbirds or pet owners, and for people who want to use their back yards and patios. Does anyone disagree?
Thanks. JJ

[JimJoe]

Originally Posted by Pturner

Hi Buffy,
Welcome to TOTV! Some three-month visitors have posted before that it was hard, some have said they had no problems socializing and getting to know neighbors.

My guess is that whenever you are the outsider, you have to be more the one making the effort. If you are outgoing and friendly, start conversations, invite folks over for drinks or out to dinner, I bet you find that you can find things in common and make friends here. The weekly activity newspaper will list the activities, clubs and contacts. For clubs, I would call the club leader in advance and ask if they welcome guests. Most probably do. Introduce yourself to the club leader and others when you go. I bet you'll make friends!

Go to the 3rd Friday lunches at Krispers. It's a great place to meet newcomers and veterans.

I would also suggest that you stay connected here on TOTV, not just as a lurker, but as a contributor to the conversations. If you've lurked long enough you already know that you can meet many helpful, welcoming and friendly TVers right here on this board.

Come on down to TV and jump right in. You'll love it.

Best regards,
Pturner

Thanks. JJ

[Boomer]

Hi Bill-n-Brillo,

Thank you for starting this thread. We who are in the second-home (or snowbird/snowflake) market are in a different boat than those who are making the decision to live in TV full-time. I probably could write a whole book about how I have wrestled this decision.

We have rented in TV before but not for a long enough time, just for a month. We have never done the Lifestyle visit. We have never been there in winter. Twice, we have come close to making an offer, but each time something pulled me back and I have never regretted that. As it turned out, it really was not the right time.

Now, I consider a long rental to be money well-invested, in our case anyway. And if we do decide to buy after that, we will know where we want to be and what kind of house we want. We will know what’s there for us, and if we want to make that serious investment in owning two homes.

Heck. I know somebody who went to a party one night and ended up buying a house from somebody there. Things can happen once you are in there. I am willing to give it a good chance, but I just won’t jump right in now to buying a second home without really knowing that I want it bad enough to deal with all the stuff that goes with owning two.

I am a terrible golfer who cannot line-dance, but I know that TV has so much more to offer. Anyway, we are taking our time. For now, the decision to rent-and-see is the only one that makes sense for me personally.

This is a topic that needs discussing here on TOTV. And I probably will be back sometime to say some more stuff about it.

Boomer

[Bill-n-Brillo]

Thanks to EVERYBODY who has offered up their insights and thoughts so far. KEEP 'EM COMING!!!

Bill